|
News: Thousands of animals sacrificed at Nepal festival
Member Since: 11/11/2010
Posts: 11,240
|
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
Vegan, actually. I'm not sure why you say it in a condescending manner though.
|
Are you going to get mad at a lion for eating a buffalo a bear eating fish or a Bird eating a snake it's called a food chain it's s part of nature. Animals kill us as well.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 68,548
|
That's disgusting, not acceptable in 2014. Those people need to understand that this kind of unjustified violence is just not acceptable.
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Rama
We've been eating other animals for 130.000 years by now. It's the way nature works. Get over it.
All this 'killing an animal for fun is worse than killing it for eating' is ********. Killing is killing.
|
....um. There is a damn HUGE difference between killing for need and killing for fun
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
|
Quote:
Originally posted by princedonte
Are you going to get mad at a lion for eating a buffalo a bear eating fish or a Bird eating a snake it's called a food chain it's s part of nature. Animals kill us as well.
|
My dear child, I think you are confusing some things. The lion literally needs that meat to survive. His or her body will cease to function without said meat. So while I wish he or she could have the capacity to consume something else, it is literally impossible. The other two technically do have other options (depending on what species of bear and bird they are), but you are right, it is the food chain and there isn't much to do about that.
However, we are humans, so, unlike the lion, we have no inherent need to consume the flesh or byproducts of another animal. It is all want, and thus can be successfully taken out of an individual's life without lessening said life. Also, unlike the natural food chain that you highlighted by mentioning the bear and the bird, those consuming flesh that is sourced in factory faring are not participating in this natural chain. Rather, they are supporting an artificial chain, where there is a constant supply of food available at low costs (monetary, physical labor, etc.). This cost is absorbed through the torture the animals in this system endure daily to result in a cruel and unnecessary death.
Finally, yes, other species of animals do kill us (not even remotely as often as we do them), but the majority of those deaths are the result of self defense of either themselves or their kin. The death of another species by a human, in the case of self defense, is terrible, but understandable. I am not disputing that. However, the rare occasion when an animal from another species kills a human for food purposes would fit under that natural food chain you mentioned. That doesn't necessarily make it "right," but it's just some food for thought.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/4/2012
Posts: 12,811
|
Quote:
Originally posted by itsaphrodisi
Then I guess it'd be as easy as cutting a vegetable if I decapitate him?
|
This is why I can't take animal rights people serious
"OMG the animals, I must kill another human being"
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
|
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
We are animals as well, so, by your logic, it's morally acceptable to eat your neighbors because "they are freaking animals."
|
Actually no. Have you read Descartes?
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
Also, I am against the cruelty animals endure here at home as well as elsewhere. I guess you missed my post where I said that I'm against factory farming as well, which is the source of that $4 murder burger you seem to enjoy.
|
"Quarter pounder with murder", really? Let me guess: are you vegan?
Quote:
Originally posted by KillingYourCareer
That's disgusting, not acceptable in 2014. Those people need to understand that this kind of unjustified violence is just not acceptable.
|
So it's okay to chop 100,000 cattle into pieces each day so some fatass can gulp them down at McDonalds, but it's not okay to sacrifice a buffalo for your goddess?
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Actually no. Have you read Descartes?
"Quarter pounder with murder", really? Let me guess: are you vegan?
So it's okay to chop 100,000 cattle into pieces each day so some fatass can gulp them down at McDonalds, but it's not okay to sacrifice a buffalo for your goddess?
|
Unfortunately, I have not. Yes, I am a vegan, as I have stated at least twice in this very thread. Lastly, neither of those options is okay. Using one negative to argue against another negative is not an effective debate tactic.
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
|
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
Unfortunately, I have not. Yes, I am a vegan, as I have stated at least twice in this very thread. Lastly, neither of those options is okay. Using one negative to argue against another negative is not an effective debate tactic.
|
I'm sorry but I don't usually read posts unless they quote me. So you are vegan: do you have an argument why I should not eat cattle?
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
I'm sorry but I don't usually read posts unless they quote me. So you are vegan: do you have an argument why I should not eat cattle?
|
Ah, I see. My apologies. I think the better question is, is there even a proper argument for eating them? I don't really feel like writing out an essay, so I'll just put down a few points. ( Here is also a basic list of reasons, which are similar to mine.) - For the animals. They don't want to die, and no one gave us the right to take their lives in the first place. It's really that simple.
- For the environment. "More than 70 percent of the earth’s fresh water is used in agriculture of plants and animals: it takes 100 to 200 times more water to produce a pound of beef than it does to grow a pound of plant foods. Plus, the United Nations has reported that the livestock sector is most likely the largest source of water pollution" (Source). Factory farming is also by far one of the largest generators of greenhouse gases in the entire world. It's estimated that one vegan driving an SUV can save more in greenhouse gas emissions than a multitude of omnivores who drive a Prius. (Sorry, can't find a source for this one, but I did see it once.)
- For your fellow human. The majority of the food that's grow in the US doesn't actually go to humans - it's used to feed animals which are then slaughtered and fed to a select number of humans. Indeed, "more than 700 million tons of human-grade food goes into animal agriculture each year, which could instead be used to eradicate hunger" (Source).
- For you. The leading cause of death in the US is heart disease. (Source) Veganism is completely void of two of the main components that contribute to the disease: saturated fat (except in coconuts, but that type of saturated fat is considered semi-healthy) and cholesterol. It is also full of those things that lower a person's chance of contracting the issue: whole grains, fiber, and plenty of vitamins and minerals. And this is just for heart disease. There are a plethora of other issues that veganism can not only relieve or assist, but even cure in many cases. (Source)
To be fair, below I'll post what argument I can find in support of eating animals. - They taste good! (And even that is debatable - I personally disagree.)
As you can see, there truly is absolutely no reason for a person to not be vegan. It literally helps everyone, including you.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 23,375
|
Did they eat them? cause if not that's hella wasteful.
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
|
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
[*]For the animals. They don't want to die, and no one gave us the right to take their lives in the first place. It's really that simple.
|
But they are animals. They don't really think about such things.
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
[*] For the environment. "More than 70 percent of the earth’s fresh water is used in agriculture of plants and animals: it takes 100 to 200 times more water to produce a pound of beef than it does to grow a pound of plant foods. Plus, the United Nations has reported that the livestock sector is most likely the largest source of water pollution" ( Source). Factory farming is also by far one of the largest generators of greenhouse gases in the entire world. It's estimated that one vegan driving an SUV can save more in greenhouse gas emissions than a multitude of omnivores who drive a Prius. (Sorry, can't find a source for this one, but I did see it once.)
|
This is interesting but the United Nations also says people should eat insects, which is gross. They are very serious about it. So frankly, I don't trust anything they have to tell me about food.
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
[*] For your fellow human. The majority of the food that's grow in the US doesn't actually go to humans - it's used to feed animals which are then slaughtered and fed to a select number of humans. Indeed, "more than 700 million tons of human-grade food goes into animal agriculture each year, which could instead be used to eradicate hunger" ( Source).
|
So in a sense "you get what you pay for". Poor Asian countries eat a lot of rice. But since they are becoming richer, people eat more meat. I live in a rich country, so I have the right to eat rich country food instead of basic staples like potatoes or rice.
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
[*] For you. The leading cause of death in the US is heart disease. ( Source) Veganism is completely void of two of the main components that contribute to the disease: saturated fat (except in coconuts, but that type of saturated fat is considered semi-healthy) and cholesterol. It is also full of those things that lower a person's chance of contracting the issue: whole grains, fiber, and plenty of vitamins and minerals. And this is just for heart disease. There are a plethora of other issues that veganism can not only relieve or assist, but even cure in many cases. ( Source)
|
Interesting but I will take the risk, there's nothing like a 16-oz New York strip steak!
Some counter points:
- Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. (Genesis 1:30)
- For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. (Romans 14:2)
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/30/2010
Posts: 22,080
|
Vegans are a bit like bible peddlers that show up at your house. It's impolite not to hear them out but you kinda wanna just shut the door in their face and go back to your meal.
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
But they are animals. They don't really think about such things.
This is interesting but the United Nations also says people should eat insects, which is gross. They are very serious about it. So frankly, I don't trust anything they have to tell me about food.
So in a sense "you get what you pay for". Poor Asian countries eat a lot of rice. But since they are becoming richer, people eat more meat. I live in a rich country, so I have the right to eat rich country food instead of basic staples like potatoes or rice.
Interesting but I will take the risk, there's nothing like a 16-oz New York strip steak!
Some counter points:
- Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. (Genesis 1:30)
- For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. (Romans 14:2)
|
- Oh, but they do think about such things, and many more things at that. Perhaps not as complex as we do - and even that is arguable - but they do indeed think. I implore you to do some research on this, but if you will not, at least read this, which I found through a simple Google search.
- I can't comment on other statements the UN has made, but I can say that I also do not support the consumption or killing of insects. They have a right to life as well. Nevertheless, the point I made still stands as fact, regardless of whatever other things the UN has said.
- And yet it's those "basic staples like potatoes or rice" that would feed the entire world if available to everyone. If you care more about what you get to eat then filling the empty stomachs of those who literally have nothing to eat because you believe you have a "right" to it, then I really cannot help you.
- Welp, I guess I can't help you on the health point either.
- As for those counter points...I don't even know what to say. You're really gonna quote the book that advocates for the stoning of women in the streets for cheating, and which (arguably) states that it is a mortal sin to have intercourse with your same sex/gender? And of all places, on ATRL? I mean, I know and understand that not everyone on this site falls into the LGBT community, but...really?
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Vulps
Vegans are a bit like bible peddlers that show up at your house. It's impolite not to hear them out but you kinda wanna just shut the door in their face and go back to your meal.
|
Except those "bible peddlers" are telling about what they believe, whereas we are telling you the facts, which are not up for debate as religion is. But you go back inside and finish that meal that's literally contributing to several major world problems!
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
|
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
Oh, but they do think about such things, and many more things at that. Perhaps not as complex as we do - and even that is arguable - but they do indeed think. I implore you to do some research on this, but if you will not, at least read this, which I found through a simple Google search.
|
I have owned several animals. This is interesting, but Descartes tells us:
"... le plus grand de tous les préjugés que nous ayons retenus de notre enfance, est celui de croire que les bêtes pensent"
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
I can't comment on other statements the UN has made, but I can say that I also do not support the consumption or killing of insects. They have a right to life as well. Nevertheless, the point I made still stands as fact, regardless of whatever other things the UN has said.
|
But they're... bugs
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
And yet it's those "basic staples like potatoes or rice" that would feed the entire world if available to everyone. If you care more about what you get to eat then filling the empty stomachs of those who literally have nothing to eat because you believe you have a "right" to it, then I really cannot help you.
|
I am not going to eat bland food so the extra money can go to people in other countries, nor is 99.9% of any population. People like good food. It's tradition as well. No more steak houses in Texas? I'm sure that would go over well!
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
Welp, I guess I can't help you on the health point either.
|
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
As for those counter points...I don't even know what to say. You're really gonna quote the book that advocates for the stoning of women in the streets for cheating, and which (arguably) states that it is a mortal sin to have intercourse with your same sex/gender? And of all places, on ATRL? I mean, I know and understand that not everyone on this site falls into the LGBT community, but...really?
|
Whether you have faith or not, the Bible is an important cultural document. It has shaped civilizations for the past two millennia and studying it can provide answers and understanding of how we arrived at this point in history.
What is your opinion of hunting?
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 997
|
Then it will be okay for people to do Jihad and slavery because it is their culture? Mess.
Some cultures need to be changed, and this is one of them.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/16/2012
Posts: 13,657
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Buyonce1814
If they eat it then what's the problem? If they don't eat it then what a waste.
|
It's not a waste. Some goddess is apparently going to bless them a lot for all this blood. Hope they get what they're after some day.
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
I have owned several animals. This is interesting, but Descartes tells us:
"... le plus grand de tous les préjugés que nous ayons retenus de notre enfance, est celui de croire que les bêtes pensent"
But they're... bugs
I am not going to eat bland food so the extra money can go to people in other countries, nor is 99.9% of any population. People like good food. It's tradition as well. No more steak houses in Texas? I'm sure that would go over well!
Whether you have faith or not, the Bible is an important cultural document. It has shaped civilizations for the past two millennia and studying it can provide answers and understanding of how we arrived at this point in history.
What is your opinion of hunting?
|
- I apologize but...I only speak English, and thus cannot comprehend a word of that quote.
- Yes, they are bugs, and they deserve a right to life just like you or I.
- What do you think us vegans eat? Sticks and leaves? I myself can't even stand salads. Some of my favorite foods include fideo (a Mexican dish), Mexican beans and rice, cornbread/squash casserole, Italian green beans with marinara sauce, and hearty vegetable soup. None contain any animal products, yet they are all delicious and healthy. Also, I'm from Texas myself and have lived without ever having a Texas steak. It's perfectly possible.
- Yes, the Bible is a historical document (although its accuracy in reference to history is very arguable - so much so that I wouldn't use it to argue this point), however, it should not be used to justify the wrongdoings we do today. Explain them? Perhaps. But definitely not justify them.
I do not support hunting. I'm not fully learned on it, but this is how I view it: we eliminate natural predators because they are a nuisance and/or arguable danger to humans. The natural prey population then grows, to the point where some people consider them overpopulated. Then we wonder why, and decide to kill them ourselves. Does that make any sense at all? Just leave the damn predators and balance will be restored indefinitely.
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
|
Those ****ing pieces of worthless **** should be decapitated next. Someone drop an atomic bomb on them pls, we don't need such a stupid subspecies on Earth.
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/10/2010
Posts: 18,057
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Rama
We've been eating other animals for 130.000 years by now. It's the way nature works. Get over it.
All this 'killing an animal for fun is worse than killing it for eating' is ********. Killing is killing.
|
You sound dumb as ****. Slavery had been going on in the world for those of years? Should just Accept it and "get over it" too? It's unnatural to consume meat. Why do think so many people die of heart disease, cancer and the most preventable of them all type 2 diabetes? humans have a longer intestinal tract than lions and bears.
Anyway **** like this is so stupid. Those people are trash.
|
|
|
|
|