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Discussion: Why ATRL discredits Beyoncé?
Member Since: 11/2/2011
Posts: 9,796
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fisherman
First of all her album sales are really good.
But if you wanna get to the core of this then let's do it, by the end of the day she's labeled as a 'singer' in the entertainment business, Beyoncé CAN SING amazingly, outstanding vocals, plus she can dance like no body else and put on a good show overall.
Meanwhile you fav is only a good songwriter, no shade but she's not a "singer", she can't sing, let's get real; nor she can dance, and her stage presence is distasteful; and she exploites her relationships to get acclaim and sale music.
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Member Since: 9/8/2011
Posts: 25,869
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Better question, why is a thread like this made every week? Insecure much? Always the same ****ing essay in OP too. This is like 3rd or 4th one I've seen recently.
Maybe instead of bragging about your fave non-stop and trying to drag haters simultaneously, you should understand that not everyone is gonna kiss your fave's ass like the corrupted media does. Not everyone likes your fave, just like yall hate mine.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,685
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Beyoncé is an average artist.
Her music is so boring, uninspired, uninteresting, unoriginal, bland, always the same, a bit trashy too.
Her music videos are awful for a "popgirl" she has one of the worst videography.
She's a good performer but not among the best. She definitely knows how to put on a show.
She is loved as hell by the medias when the majority of what she does is... bad.
Her album sales are great but her single sales are TRAGIC.
Also, she has always been known/accused of stealing ideas and writing credits. And just look at her last album Lemonade, there are like 70 writers. This is just so wrong.
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Member Since: 3/14/2013
Posts: 2,560
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Member Since: 12/22/2011
Posts: 55,626
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to me Beyonce is a legend and a talented entertainer.
I think most atrlers get a kick out of "discrediting" Beyonce mainly because of her stans treating her like a goddess but also because Beyonce pretty much has the best of both worlds.
She has so much going for her and if she were achieving hits like Rihanna, album sales like Adele, taking the top awards and write well like Taylor and doing all of that like a timberlake then it would be hard to come for her.
But for some reason the GP love her and respect her and will go to see her show to be entertained but that doesn't translate into massive hits and massive albums.
She gets consistent sales, hits on r&b but then some marketing techniques come off gimmicky and cheapen things a bit and all in all people expect with all the good grace she has going for her that she's perform better.
Now with tour receipts she slays so I don't see many people coming for her there but there is so much ammo OBHs have when it comes to memorable performances, global hits, album sales, impact and influence.
Some see the media's usage of her impact as partial propaganda with good reason...
the shorter version of this essay is: Most other artists either can sing or can dance/entertain. Most other artist can appeal to maybe one or two formats. When you have the respect and adoration of the GP for being able to sing well, look great, dance/entertain well and appeal to so many formats/demographics...the stats (nix her slaying touring receipts) leave much ammo for ATRLers to wonder: you have all this and yet...the results aren't dominating and as victorious as one would expect.
So yeah...
Even when I stanned for her I never understood how even with her promotion techniques and media on her side how people just seemed more into watching her perform than actually hearing her songs on the radio, giving her a 5M single seller or an album above 5x platinum. If anyone should be able to do it...it should be Beyonce.
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 7,111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erreur2 La Nature
Beyoncé is an average artist.
Her music is so boring, uninspired, uninteresting, unoriginal, bland, always the same, a bit trashy too.
Her music videos are awful for a "popgirl" she has one of the worst videography.
She's a good performer but not among the best. She definitely knows how to put on a show.
She is loved as hell by the medias when the majority of what she does is... bad.
Her album sales are great but her single sales are TRAGIC.
Also, she has always been known/accused of stealing ideas and writing credits. And just look at her last album Lemonade, there are like 70 writers. This is just so wrong.
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You've just proved with one post why your opinion is so obscenely biased, that it's practically laughable.You're going to have the audacity to come for her videography, when she's released her last two albums with spectacular visuals? Really? If you don't like her, that's absolutely fine, but to post blatant lies like that are ridiculous.
Your opinion on her music is just that, an opinion. It's not shared by the GP, her fans or the critics. But you are still entitled to it. What you're not entitled to, is pretending like your hatred for his based on actual facts. You've filled that post with nothing but lies. Maybe try to be less pigheaded and people will listen to you.
There also are "70 writers" on Lemonade and you're fully aware of that and the amount of samples used. That was a lazy drag. Try harder.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,128
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,666
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Quote:
Originally posted by StonedSoulPicnic
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Member Since: 12/22/2011
Posts: 55,626
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lippy
Better question, why is a thread like this made every week? Insecure much? Always the same ****ing essay in OP too. This is like 3rd or 4th one I've seen recently.
Maybe instead of bragging about your fave non-stop and trying to drag haters simultaneously, you should understand that not everyone is gonna kiss your fave's ass like the corrupted media does. Not everyone likes your fave, just like yall hate mine.
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Yeah Hive members tend to create these threads weekly and I notice after a pop girl releases they have done this too but in the end.
I think most of ATRL can admit that Beyonce is megatalented. Great looks, good singer, good performer. Her stans don't seem to understand why people would have any ammo but in the end:
Minus being a media darling and having so much going for her
If she had the album sales comparable to Adele,
an era like Katy's Teenage dream and ability to have huge streams/radio and digital sales
the ability to have pop/dance/urban/r&b hits like Rihanna
the ability to be embedded in pop culture and actually witness younger generations take a page from her book (video, songs, image etc.) like a Britney
the songwriting acclaim of a Taylor as well as pop appeal
and have the ability to do a little of all of that with longevity like a Timberlake then ATRL really wouldn't have much to come for Beyonce.
ATRL can't come for tour receipts because she dominates.
Beyonce is an artist that can tap into mainstream and urban markets and has yet it hasn't yielded comparable stats to what I mentioned above.
add on the Hive's ways about regarding their fave
equals a recipe for non Beyonce stans to use the above mention benchmarks as ammo.
It really is jarring how Beyonce has had such a great relationship with the press and such a strong brand. One would assume she'd be the one achieving all of the above as well as stomping on everyone when it comes to touring...
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 46,848
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lippy
Better question, why is a thread like this made every week? Insecure much? Always the same ****ing essay in OP too. This is like 3rd or 4th one I've seen recently.
Maybe instead of bragging about your fave non-stop and trying to drag haters simultaneously, you should understand that not everyone is gonna kiss your fave's ass like the corrupted media does. Not everyone likes your fave, just like yall hate mine.
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You didn't even read the OP. Your comment has nothing to do with the topic at hand
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Member Since: 12/22/2011
Posts: 55,626
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roman Holiday
They hate black women.
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I bet many of them love Rihanna and liked Nicki during her 2011 run.
Quote:
Originally posted by Frankievii
Because they're pressed
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depending on what they are "discrediting" her for.
If they are coming her for performance skills, looks or touring receipts then yes.
Other things might have legitimacy though
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Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 3,114
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ascension
It's really hilarious how the goal posts need to be adjusted each and every time Bey tours:
MCSWT was slaughtering in arenas:
"But it ain't #$tadium$taus!!11!!1 *giggles hysterically*"
"Combining two tours into one!"
"Festivals!"
Then the OTR Tour hit stadiums:
"She can't do it alone!"
"Jay Z's fans were half the audience! "
And now the ease-the-slay-away balm is that she supposedly wouldn't have demand to support any further dates. Whatever helps y'all complete those REM cycles at night, I guess.
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This is a perfect example.
This year VMA, her performance is 100x better than others, but they was like: " she used pre-record vocals", "boring"...
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 7,111
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Quote:
Originally posted by slw84
If she had the album sales comparable to Adele,
an era like Katy's Teenage dream and ability to have huge streams/radio and digital sales
the ability to have pop/dance/urban/r&b hits like Rihanna
the ability to be embedded in pop culture and actually witness younger generations take a page from her book (video, songs, image etc.) like a Britney
the songwriting acclaim of a Taylor as well as pop appeal
and have the ability to do a little of all of that with longevity like a Timberlake then ATRL really wouldn't have much to come for Beyonce.
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1. Nobody has album sales like Adele. Yet Beyoncé still has the best selling album released this year. So whilst she may not be dominating like Adele, she's still dominating.
2. Beyoncé seems to be against singles nowadays, for whatever reason. She self-sabotages on that front and we don't know why. She is however a streaming force. She holds the record for the highest streams in one week for a female. She's one of a handful of artists to reach 1 billion streams for an album on Spotify, despite uploading BEYONCÉ a year after its release.
3. See above response. Whilst her songs may not be massive on the charts, they're still massively popular and referenced worldwide.
4. I'm not sure why you're acting like she's not completely embedded into popular culture... She has the younger generation imitating her and quoting her as their main inspiration. She has songs, videos, lyrics etc. all embedded into popular culture. She is a "Britney" on that front.
5. She is the first and only black woman to win an ASCAP award for her songwriting. Whilst ATRL may enjoy trolling in regards to her songwriting, everyone she works with paint a very different story to the one being peddled on this board.
6. I'm also unsure why you're pretending like she doesn't have longevity... She is almost 20 years into her career and has the best selling album and tour of the year, the most acclaimed album, sold over 3 million singles so far this era... How exactly isn't she showing "Timberlake" longevity?
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 9,488
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Okay, first of all, anyone who discredits Beyoncé's success is delusional. She is a successful entertainer, whether we like it or not. Her music career is not a flop, and few people here would argue that when she's had some huge hits throughout her career. No one here has ever argued that she's talented either, because she is. That's a fact.
The problem is, first of all, she doesn't promote her singles, and therefore, they don't do well on the charts. She also writes very little of her own material, but tries to pass it off like she has (I'm a fan and I'm well aware as much of her own music as people are led on to believe), and most of her songs have an insane amount of co-writers on them.
That being said, I think what it all comes back to is the fans. First of all, I can't stand most of the members of the Hive that I've interacted with because they're so incredibly delusional and refuse to hear anyone criticize Beyoncé. She's treated like a deity, and I think it's given her fan base a bad reputation (even though there are plenty of them that are not like that) because they live in this fantasy that she's incapable of doing any wrong. And it's a shame, but there are people who refuse to stan for her (or even respect her artistry) because some of her fans can be so incredibly obnoxious. As a Beyoncé stan myself, I'll admit that I steer clear of interacting with the Hive for the most part, because I've had such bad encounters with them before.
Regardless, it doesn't make sense for her accomplishments to be discredited. She's one of the most successful music artists in the world and has gone on to do more than most of ATRL's faves have.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 5,843
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Because they're delusional enough to think their faves compare to her. Simple as that.
I stan for Katy Perry too but, you know, I'm keeping it real.
I think that's their coping mechanism for the overwhelming praise which comes from basically everywhere else.
It's not only media doing it. It's everyone. From critics, to politicians, to your own fave.
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Member Since: 12/22/2011
Posts: 55,626
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrLovett
1. Nobody has album sales like Adele. Yet Beyoncé still has the best selling album released this year. So whilst she may not be dominating like Adele, she's still dominating.
2. Beyoncé seems to be against singles nowadays, for whatever reason. She self-sabotages on that front and we don't know why. She is however a streaming force. She holds the record for the highest streams in one week for a female. She's one of a handful of artists to reach 1 billion streams for an album on Spotify, despite uploading BEYONCÉ a year after its release.
3. See above response. Whilst her songs may not be massive on the charts, they're still massively popular and referenced worldwide.
4. I'm not sure why you're acting like she's not completely embedded into popular culture... She has the younger generation imitating her and quoting her as their main inspiration. She has songs, videos, lyrics etc. all embedded into popular culture. She is a "Britney" on that front.
5. She is the first and only black woman to win an ASCAP award for her songwriting. Whilst ATRL may enjoy trolling in regards to her songwriting, everyone she works with paint a very different story to the one being peddled on this board.
6. I'm also unsure why you're pretending like she doesn't have longevity... She is almost 20 years into her career and has the best selling album and tour of the year, the most acclaimed album, sold over 3 million singles so far this era... How exactly isn't she showing "Timberlake" longevity?
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1. She's not getting Adele and Taylor sales and gets Bruno/Katy sales who also get huge streaming and digital sales. No one is claiming she's doing poorly.
It's that she has so much going for her and with so many target audiences it's a wonder why she isn't getting multiple 5x platinum much less diamond albums. That gives some ammo to say even after all that work...you achieve these results when people would understand her faring better.
Stop pretending SPS is not a thing to further an agenda.
2. The excuses. Even in her heyday she wasn't achieving Teenage dream stats and that's the point. She has so many opportunities with good streams, good brand, radio play on multiple formats.
3. Certain songs are but certain songs have been pushed to be more than what they are.
4. I never said she's not embedded but a lot of work on the media front helped achieved this. For all the singles she's put out the ratio of known to unknown and referenced to not reference shows.
honestly, it seems like the media was ok with her being the r&b singer with crossover appeal and then when she really showed her worth in 2013 they began trying to push her as if she was more than an r&b crossover girl. even songs that were not hits are being pushed like they were hits.
5. I'm not going there with you on the songwriting thing but you should research Kandi burruss' views on that one
6. She does have longevity? I never said she didn't.
I think YOU ARE MISSING my point.
She does well. She's a legend. Beautiful, talented singer and performer.
She crosses over to pop, r&b, urban, ac. She's respected and has a strong brand.
The other girls that are outselling her albums, outselling her singles, having stronger global hits, having more success in the acting world don't have as much going for them with being media darlings + having more going in terms of the package.
Yet they dominate her in those areas.
the only area that she really dominates in is winning awards (and we know about politics) and touring which only Taylor I believe can make more money.
possibly adele but maybe not.
the point is that she has so much going for her that it would be easy for people to assume that she truly dominates the way the media storytells the gp; however for ATRLers that know the stats or the GP that sees articles serving actual stats/facts...there's a discrepancy
which means it is easy to "discredit" when you lump the media propaganda machine + the stans putting her up as an untouchable goddess.
I'm just saying that this is the main reason. The hype and worshipping doesn't match the stats for the most part which makes non stans have ammo to use.
Minus touring stats of course...everything is up for debate.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,182
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When I joined (and when I was still lurking) there was lots of praise towards Bey! But some Hive fans were annoying and ATRL turned against her.
She really is great imo but ofc she will get dragged after the hive ppl attack others favs just for the fun of it or to just show how Bey is much better :I
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,182
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Quote:
Originally posted by slw84
1. She's not getting Adele and Taylor sales and gets Bruno/Katy sales who also get huge streaming and digital sales. No one is claiming she's doing poorly.
It's that she has so much going for her and with so many target audiences it's a wonder why she isn't getting multiple 5x platinum much less diamond albums. That gives some ammo to say even after all that work...you achieve these results when people would understand her faring better.
Stop pretending SPS is not a thing to further an agenda.
2. The excuses. Even in her heyday she wasn't achieving Teenage dream stats and that's the point. She has so many opportunities with good streams, good brand, radio play on multiple formats.
3. Certain songs are but certain songs have been pushed to be more than what they are.
4. I never said she's not embedded but a lot of work on the media front helped achieved this. For all the singles she's put out the ratio of known to unknown and referenced to not reference shows.
honestly, it seems like the media was ok with her being the r&b singer with crossover appeal and then when she really showed her worth in 2013 they began trying to push her as if she was more than an r&b crossover girl. even songs that were not hits are being pushed like they were hits.
5. I'm not going there with you on the songwriting thing but you should research Kandi burruss' views on that one
6. She does have longevity? I never said she didn't.
I think YOU ARE MISSING my point.
She does well. She's a legend. Beautiful, talented singer and performer.
She crosses over to pop, r&b, urban, ac. She's respected and has a strong brand.
The other girls that are outselling her albums, outselling her singles, having stronger global hits, having more success in the acting world don't have as much going for them with being media darlings + having more going in terms of the package.
Yet they dominate her in those areas.
the only area that she really dominates in is winning awards (and we know about politics) and touring which only Taylor I believe can make more money.
possibly adele but maybe not.
the point is that she has so much going for her that it would be easy for people to assume that she truly dominates the way the media storytells the gp; however for ATRLers that know the stats or the GP that sees articles serving actual stats/facts...there's a discrepancy
which means it is easy to "discredit" when you lump the media propaganda machine + the stans putting her up as an untouchable goddess.
I'm just saying that this is the main reason. The hype and worshipping doesn't match the stats for the most part which makes non stans have ammo to use.
Minus touring stats of course...everything is up for debate.
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tis true too tho
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 68,548
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She's very overrated and brownnosed by the media so it's normal people tone her down a bit.
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Member Since: 6/15/2011
Posts: 41,028
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ATRL discredits everyone. Get over it.
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