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Sam Smith and the matter of "normalizing" gayness
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,128
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Can we stop putting gay men into these boxes? Gay people come in ALL shapes and sizes and it's fristraing that we seem to only divide people by masculine/feminine.
I'm proud that I don't dwell on how "macho" or how "girly" I act. I just do me, and sometimes I want to be just a chill dude, and other times I'm a loud Queen. VERSATILITY people. Broaden your horizons and stop being basic.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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There is a difference between flamboyant and obnoxiously gay, which what I think ILiveMusic is trying to get at,
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,973
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King already having impact ![:'(](images/smilies/images/smilies/cry.gif)
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Member Since: 8/9/2012
Posts: 18,572
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Is Sam Smith as an artist really gay though? I could slots to his whole album and have no idea while listening to music by straight guys they usually make it pretty damn clear. He's the musical equivalent of downlow.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,677
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This "anti-stereotype" thing is bad! So what, the gay "stereotypes" become villains? Tbh, I'm not here for blurring the lines between gay and straight, gay is more than a sexual orientation, it's a personality. If you like the same sex you're homosexual, if you like the same sex and are fabulous you're gay ![:-*](images/smilies/images/smilies/kiss.gif)
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Member Since: 9/13/2012
Posts: 29,559
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tea
Considering he doesn't use gender specific pronouns in his songs, I'd say no.
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That's a fair point. I really don't care about him or his music at all, but I hope on his next album he does this.
I love that Frank Ocean is totally open about this in his music--you know when he's singing about a woman and when he's singing about a man. It's nice to have music out there that actually makes sense for me without having to awkwardly dance around pronouns.
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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Quote:
Originally posted by mariska
Your shaming of flamboyant gay men is so unfounded, uncalled for, and wrong. I am gay and somewhat effeminate; I cannot control it. There are other gay men who are even more flamboyant who similarly have no control over their personality. Why shame them? It's not their fault people hate you, its the fault of the people who hate you.
As opposed to blaming those in a minority group who upkeep or perpetuate stereotypes, we should teach people to treat everybody with kindness regardless of how somebody acts. Do flamboyant gay men perhaps contribute to the idea that all gay men are flamboyant? Maybe, but that's irrelevant. It shouldn't matter. We shouldn't persecute or oppress anybody whether they perpetuate stereotypes or not.
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![cries](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRLSmilies/45ab1e3e.gif)
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Member Since: 3/4/2014
Posts: 4,777
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Quote:
Originally posted by jose168
Blaming gays who are feminine for the reason that people are ignorant is homophobia and self hate, get real. and just because your sentence syntax is ****ed doesn't make it nonsense, its fact. If no gay man didnt anything flamboyant, theyd still be hated.
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That's how I understood, I am not pro nor against him
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,128
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Quote:
Originally posted by its_britney_bitch
This "anti-stereotype" thing is bad! So what, the gay "stereotypes" become villains? Tbh, I'm not here for blurring the lines between gay and straight, gay is more than a sexual orientation, it's a personality. If you like the same sex you're homosexual, if you like the same sex and are fabulous you're gay ![:-*](images/smilies/images/smilies/kiss.gif)
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I agree and disagree with this.
I think gay people need to stop feeling the need to "normalize" or stress about not coming off "too gay" and just be proud of who they are and LEARN about gay culture. Being gay is actually really cool and it should be celebrated, not brushed under the rug.
I don't really agree with your last statement tho, but I get what you mean. ![:)](http://www.atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,313
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Quote:
Originally posted by mariska
You're not a hateful person and yet you just shamed an entire subgroup of a minority. Evidently, you are.
TIL I learnt all flamboyant gay men are somehow inherently respectful. Can flamboyant gay men just not be rude? This is news to me.
To tell the truth, it seems like you're backtracking. You originally posted flamboyant gay men make the community look bad, now you're saying rude gay men make the community look bad? Either you're erroneously thinking all flamboyant gay me are rude, or you're changing your mind/argument.
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I'm talking about a select few gays that I have personally come across. The ones who truly believe they are better than everyone else and choose to be nasty to people and bully them. Its like they try to bring others down so that they don't get hurt. The definition of a bully. I do acknowledge my statement came across as self hatred but I genuinely don't have a problem with gays who are clean cut and have feminine characteristics. I just hate that gay men can act like they can oppress people just because they have been oppressed. I have only ever seen flamboyant men be disrespectful to society and try to make it theirs. Many people are turned off from gay people because a select few make them feel less than them. I've always felt that sexuality is only part of you, not all of you. Why do we have to make it such a huge deal? All I was saying is that if Sam smith was a terrible person who thought way to highly of himself due to his sexuality it wouldn't work and he wouldn't be successful
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,677
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roman Holiday
I agree and disagree with this.
I think gay people need to stop feeling the need to "normalize" or stress about not coming off "too gay" and just be proud of who they are and LEARN about gay culture. Being gay is actually really cool and it should be celebrated, not brushed under the rug.
I don't really agree with your last statement tho, but I get what you mean. ![:)](http://www.atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Finally! It really disgusts me when people (especially other gays) look down on someone for being feminine, and basically being himself. I'm sick of guys trying to "justify" being gay by emphasising their masculine side. Personally I love my high-pitched voice and "feminine" characteristics but that's just me
And yeah the last part was meant as a joke ![:)](http://www.atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Member Since: 11/17/2011
Posts: 12,413
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See I can see why he isn't so flamboyant in the spotlight I probably wouldn't BUT not everyone is flamboyant 24/7 I have my moments when I'm with my girls and family but I know when to tone it down and have a more reserved attitude and km sure that's what Sam does. He knows when to turn it off and be professional.
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Member Since: 11/12/2011
Posts: 5,343
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roman Holiday
I agree and disagree with this.
I think gay people need to stop feeling the need to "normalize" or stress about not coming off "too gay" and just be proud of who they are and LEARN about gay culture. Being gay is actually really cool and it should be celebrated, not brushed under the rug.
I don't really agree with your last statement tho, but I get what you mean. ![:)](http://www.atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Here's the deal: gay people have been oppressed since the dawn of time. It's only natural for gay men today, who can do safely (relatively speaking), to celebrate their sexuality. It's liberating to not only be openly gay, but to be proud about it through creative self expression. It's why people suddenly become very "gay" after coming out.
Not to say you have to be a raging queen, but I've found that the gay men who are not only incredibly macho but also worried about their masculinity are ignorant of gay culture and history and don't understand why people feel the need to express their sexuality. Read about Stonewall, AIDS in the 80s, etc, etc, and you'll understand where that pride comes from.
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Member Since: 11/12/2011
Posts: 5,343
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Quote:
Originally posted by iLiveMusic
I'm talking about a select few gays that I have personally come across. The ones who truly believe they are better than everyone else and choose to be nasty to people and bully them. Its like they try to bring others down so that they don't get hurt. The definition of a bully. I do acknowledge my statement came across as self hatred but I genuinely don't have a problem with gays who are clean cut and have feminine characteristics. I just hate that gay men can act like they can oppress people just because they have been oppressed. I have only ever seen flamboyant men be disrespectful to society and try to make it theirs. Many people are turned off from gay people because a select few make them feel less than them. I've always felt that sexuality is only part of you, not all of you. Why do we have to make it such a huge deal? All I was saying is that if Sam smith was a terrible person who thought way to highly of themself it wouldn't work and he wouldn't be successful
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So then why did you originally omit this? You talked only about flamboyant men, nothing to do with rudeness.
The only reason you think flamboyant gay men are the only rude men is because they're more noticeable. There are plenty of quote-on-quote "straight acting" gay men who are total dicks. But that's totally the point; there are plenty of people who are rude or mean or oppressive. That's because sexuality is totally independent of how much of an asshole you are.
Read my above post as to why some people make their sexuality a big deal. Being forced to hide for decades upon decades does that to somebody; it makes sense for gay people to suddenly become very proud because we're living in a time where that's possible. It wasn't always this way- perhaps it would be different if gay people weren't oppressed and discriminated against historically.
You don't have to make your sexuality a big deal, but some people find strength in that. Respect their decision and they'll respect yours.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,677
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elliot
See I can see why he isn't so flamboyant in the spotlight I probably wouldn't BUT not everyone is flamboyant 24/7 I have my moments when I'm with my girls and family but I know when to tone it down and have a more reserved attitude and km sure that's what Sam does. He knows when to turn it off and be professional.
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"Reserved attitude" and by that you mean masculine? Because that's the only way he'll be successful and taken seriously? Smh, it's sad but it's true. I think it's even worse that people feel the need to conform to this, that acting masculine is the way to be respected. It's sexist and wrong and it makes my blood boil ![:(](http://www.atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/frown.gif)
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,313
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There's a time to be out there and there's a time to have manners and be professional. It's not about being reserved, it's about being a human being
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Member Since: 11/12/2011
Posts: 5,343
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Quote:
Originally posted by iLiveMusic
There's a time to be out there and there's a time to have manners and be buttoned down. It's not about being reserved, it's about being a human being
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So being out and proud is to be without manners? To be flamboyant is to be rude? Having a wild or energetic personality is crass?
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 2,610
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Quote:
Originally posted by iLiveMusic
I'm not flamboyant.. and I'm gay: a MAN who loves another MAN, not a MAN who acts like a woman. I'm sorry but flamboyant and obnoxious gay people are the ones who make other gay men look bad. Simple as that
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I think gay men who are "masc" and shame feminine gay men, make gays look bad.
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Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 7,679
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Quote:
Originally posted by iLiveMusic
There's a time to be out there and there's a time to have manners and be professional. It's not about being reserved, it's about being a human being
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That = acting straight to you?
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Member Since: 11/12/2011
Posts: 5,343
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Quote:
Originally posted by brandensuxx
I think gay men who are "masc" and shame feminine gay men, make gays look bad.
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![clap3](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/67d90ee8.gif)
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