|
Discussion: Black Culture vs. Black People?
Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
|
Quote:
Originally posted by 91Winchester
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 4,374
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
But that means the streaming rule can work in favor for black artists too!
You are focusing in the wrong thing. This is more of a societal + industry issue. I mean it all comes down to the consumer.
|
All I asked was why. I never blamed anyone. That's what the discussion was for. Never blamed the consumer. I just asked why
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 445
|
lol at everyone posting pictures of rihanna and beyonce and then grasping around for a third black women to post up. the fact that you can only name two off the top of your head and then struggle to post a third one says a lot tbh
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 4,374
|
Quote:
Originally posted by kanyesus
lol at everyone posting pictures of rihanna and beyonce and then grasping around for a third black women to post up. the fact that you can only name two off the top of your head and then struggle to post a third one says a lot tbh
|
I wonder if they can name 3 pop girls that have urban smashes though...
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/16/2010
Posts: 1,257
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BrooklynBoy
There are many urban artist. My point was why is black culture, urban, R&B, hip hop find in success when it isn't done by black artist
|
Yeah, but I hear this argument all the time. I even hear people say Adele wouldn't have been as successful if she had been black, which is stupid, since the songs would still be the same, the voice, etc., so why wouldn't people buy it? People say, "Well, Adele sells, but someone as dark as Angie Stone would never sell that well." Okay, so what was Angie's last good song? If her music were as good as Adele's, she'd be bigger. I don't see the point in blaming poor record sales on race when R&B and Rap DOMINATED the charts in the '90s and TLC, Destiny's Child, etc. were a force to be reckoned with. Now, all of a sudden everyone's trying to sneak more white artists in to replace the black ones? Why now?
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/7/2014
Posts: 2,233
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BrooklynBoy
I wonder if they can name 3 pop girls that have urban smashes though...
|
Beyoncé- DIL
Rihanna- Diamonds
Jason Derulo (Not a popgirl, but a prolific urban artist)- Talk Dirty/Wiggle.
...and that's just the last few years alone...
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/8/2012
Posts: 13,571
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BrooklynBoy
All I asked was why. I never blamed anyone. That's what the discussion was for. Never blamed the consumer. I just asked why
|
Well isn't it obvious? White mediocrity will always triumph black excellence in the US. To put it simply.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 4,374
|
Quote:
Originally posted by 91Winchester
Beyoncé- DIL
Rihanna- Diamonds
Jason Derulo (Not a popgirl, but a prolific urban artist)- Talk Dirty/Wiggle.
...and that's just the last few years alone...
|
That aren't black was my point
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 4,374
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger17
Yeah, but I hear this argument all the time. I even hear people say Adele wouldn't have been as successful if she had been black, which is stupid, since the songs would still be the same, the voice, etc., so why wouldn't people buy it? People say, "Well, Adele sells, but someone as dark as Angie Stone would never sell that well." Okay, so what was Angie's last good song? If her music were as good as Adele's, she'd be bigger. I don't see the point in blaming poor record sales on race when R&B and Rap DOMINATED the charts in the '90s and TLC, Destiny's Child, etc. were a force to be reckoned with. Now, all of a sudden everyone's trying to sneak more white artists in to replace the black ones? Why now?
|
It's the truth. Eminem said that if he was black he wouldn't have sold as much. Macklemore talked about white privilege.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 3,567
|
Quote:
Originally posted by 91Winchester
Beyoncé- DIL
Rihanna- Diamonds
Jason Derulo (Not a popgirl, but a prolific urban artist)- Talk Dirty/Wiggle.
...and that's just the last few years alone...
|
That aren't black (which could have been inferred by the fact that he said you would grasp at straws finding more than two black "females.")
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger17
Yeah, but I hear this argument all the time. I even hear people say Adele wouldn't have been as successful if she had been black, which is stupid, since the songs would still be the same, the voice, etc., so why wouldn't people buy it? People say, "Well, Adele sells, but someone as dark as Angie Stone would never sell that well." Okay, so what was Angie's last good song? If her music were as good as Adele's, she'd be bigger. I don't see the point in blaming poor record sales on race when R&B and Rap DOMINATED the charts in the '90s and TLC, Destiny's Child, etc. were a force to be reckoned with. Now, all of a sudden everyone's trying to sneak more white artists in to replace the black ones? Why now?
|
People make that assumption because for every Adele/ Sam Smith there are 100 black Adeles & Sam Smiths out there but for some reason consumers are responsive to the white artists making black music. And they tend to be the ones pushed to the forfront. It's a cultural subconscious thing. If the president was black in Scandal (as he should be) I don't think it would be half as successful. There must have been a reason why the producers are against having 2 black lead stars.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 4,374
|
Quote:
Originally posted by karron0624
That aren't black (which could have been inferred by the fact that he said you would grasp at straws finding more than two black "females.")
|
Kii at him trying to throw in Jason Derulo proving the point
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 4/7/2012
Posts: 14,466
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BrooklynBoy
I don't want a mess. I want a college level discussion with receipts & facts
|
ok, you can have mine.
---------------
OT: Not that it makes up for anything, but in my own little world... credit is given where it's due and I admire POC, their cultures, talents and inventions.
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 18,649
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BrooklynBoy
Billboard's embrace of digital sales, on-demand services, and YouTube views over the past seven years has coincided with a shift on the charts away from rap and R&B. To some extent this could just be a matter of a change in zeitgeist, but the shift in favor of pop, alternative music, and viral hits suggests that the new emphasis on digital media privileges the tastes of relatively affluent white listeners who are more likely to buy mp3s from the iTunes store or spend a lot of time online. Rap critics have been particularly sore about these changes, especially as viral artists like Baauer and Psy, who are inspired by hip-hop but do not come directly from hip-hop culture - displace traditional rap artists, even on Billboard's hip-hop charts. There's a legitimate fear that black culture is being slowly marginalized in the mainstream charts, and replaced by rap and R&B-influenced music made by outsiders that is more palatable to a broad audience.
|
that change had nothing to do with intentionally keeping black people down. billboard just reflects the most popular songs in the country and those are important factors in what makes a song popular. and billboard has always counted sales, they just moved from physical to digital when the digital age made the sales climate change. why songs by black people don't sell is a whole different discussion, though.
as for why black artists don't get popular songs, i think in the past it was entirely because people didn't want to buy from black artists, but in more modern times i think it's because black people tend to make songs that are outright R&B or rap while white artists that use those genres just have influences of rap or R&B. white people get outright rap/R&B hits sometimes but black people also get hits sometimes; this just proves that there are exceptions to the rules.
i think it's just a matter of black people's songs being less safe or radio friendly than white people's. i don't really know for sure why they tend to make less radio friendly songs. maybe it's because black artists in the past usually did that, and they're influenced by those because they listened to them growing up? that's my best guess but it might be wrong
i think all major stars are exempt from these rules though, which is why artists like beyonce or rihanna can make just about any type of music they want and still find some audience
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/11/2010
Posts: 14,221
|
I'm assuming you're referring to American black culture? I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that as a group in America, they've been through a LOT of struggles and hardship (and still really are). I think as music fans and followers, we know that sometimes pain and struggle creates the best music that we as humans can relate to. Even back when blacks were being segregated and such, people related to their music, but they didn't always want to support someone who was black. Times are different now and people will support black people, but since White is still the majority, I think white people subconsciously feel they relate more with a white person and their "struggles". I don't think it has anything to do with people not wanting to support black people or anything like that. I think people just relate to what they know. It's why black singers are really popular in black communities and Latin singers in Latin communities. I think it's just a subconscious thing that we all do and I think we can't think too much into it or we will try to find racism where it really doesn't exist.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/7/2014
Posts: 2,233
|
What I don't understand is why people aren't happy with the success many black artists, actors, models, etc. currently have. What Tyra/Naomi/Will Smith/etc. achieved on top of the impact that many black musicians had over the last century alone is something to be proud of ( I mean look at the power of Whitney and MJ alone offered). What else is to be accomplished that hasn't already been done?
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 4/7/2012
Posts: 14,466
|
Oh and as far as the charts go...
I honestly believe that mainstream music and what charts high or not can be blamed on teen & pre-teen america. they run these charts a lot more than they ever have tbh.
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
|
Why is it that only overly sexualised black women get media attention and success. Y'all have Taylor Swift, Lorde, Lana, Pink & Adele. Where is our diversity?
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 4,374
|
Quote:
Originally posted by accelgors
that change had nothing to do with intentionally keeping black people down. billboard just reflects the most popular songs in the country and those are important factors in what makes a song popular. and billboard has always counted sales, they just moved from physical to digital when the digital age made the sales climate change. why songs by black people don't sell is a whole different discussion, though.
as for why black artists don't get popular songs, i think in the past it was entirely because people didn't want to buy from black artists, but in more modern times i think it's because black people tend to make songs that are outright R&B or rap while white artists that use those genres just have influences of rap or R&B. white people get outright rap/R&B hits sometimes but black people also get hits sometimes; this just proves that there are exceptions to the rules.
i think it's just a matter of black people's songs being less safe or radio friendly than white people's. i don't really know for sure why they tend to make less radio friendly songs. maybe it's because black artists in the past usually did that, and they're influenced by those because they listened to them growing up? that's my best guess but it might be wrong
i think all major stars are exempt from these rules though, which is why artists like beyonce or rihanna can make just about any type of music they want and still find some audience
|
Ok, thank you for your insight. Exactly the type of posts I was looking for
|
|
|
|
|