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News: France drops 20 bombs on Syria
Member Since: 4/3/2011
Posts: 7,281
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qudron
I'm sure we can fit 66 million people in the Creuse department.
Your government need to violate some freedom of speech/religion to get rid of them.
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I believe the priority should be to deal with those who are already here i mean three of the terrorists of last friday were French young men...
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/11/2007
Posts: 63,796
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WW3
Get them but sadly they are hiding in our countries blowing them up won't do much but I guess it will stop them from breeding.
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Member Since: 10/5/2006
Posts: 9,829
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Quote:
Originally posted by KyIe
Sadly you're missing the point that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. As much as I would love for there to be an answer besides war we have not progressed as a society enough to avoid it. ISIS is standing in the say of that progress and they must be eliminated no matter the cost.
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What happened after Al-Qaeda was flushed out?
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Originally posted by ezra
Just because they have targets doesn't mean they will miss all of them and hit innocents. War sucks but it has to happen. There's no other way to deal with ISIS. Either Syrians bomb ISIS way down the road (and allow more Paris incidents in the meantime) or France does it now.
Pick one.
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Implying that any of these 20 bombs are going to stop another Paris attack 
Quote:
Originally posted by KyIe
Sadly you're missing the point that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. As much as I would love for there to be an answer besides war we have not progressed as a society enough to avoid it. ISIS is standing in the say of that progress and they must be eliminated no matter the cost.
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Quote:
Originally posted by KyIe
There's a reason why its the first thing that pops into people's head.... its the only proven answer... I don't know what else you want people to do. Radicals whom have said time and time again they will DIE for their beliefs can only be stopped BY DYING. What do you not understand??  |
Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
So should countries sit around and do absolutely nothing while Isis continues to perform brutal acts of terrorism? Targeting a military base IS a sound strategy, and it's the best one presented. Doing nothing will only make things worse, and nothing superior has been suggested.
Sitting around and saying "This won't work" can be done for any and every suggestion. This isn't a case where doing nothing is viable, so if you're going to say "This won't work," then come up with something better.
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If you can't eliminate ISIS without eliminating egregious quantities of civilians, you're plan does not work. It's rather simple.
Not only are you motivating recruitment in the Middle East you are motivating people in your own country that belong to these ethnic groups.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 1,473
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Quote:
Originally posted by ashuduff
What happened after Al-Qaeda was flushed out?
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Further proving my point... Hatred still exists in this world whether its racism, jihadism, radicalism of any kind really. As one falls another rises to take its place.. The only way to suppress them is by military action and making sure the situations do not escalate more than they already have.
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Member Since: 4/3/2011
Posts: 7,281
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
The minute they do something even vaguely like that (trying to track down and shut down extremely radical Islamist Mosques), people scream Islamophobia. These people legitimately act like the best solution is for governments to sit around and twiddle their thumbs and pray Isis gives up. They have a problem with every course of action suggested, but come up with none of their own.
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People like to SCREAM Islamophobia even when there's none. We're clearly talking about islamists not muslims.
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Member Since: 5/19/2012
Posts: 5,843
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Quote:
Originally posted by BoyOnBoy Wonder
The planes hit a jihadi recruitment centre, training camp and arms depot run by the group, according to the French defence ministry.
Good. Sounds like no collateral damage.
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Exactly, that's great!
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Quote:
Originally posted by KyIe
The leaders of many Muslim Middle eastern countries grossly spend money to only serve the elite and leave everyone else in the slums... The same can't be said about Israel considering the US monetary aid is most certainly used on upgraded defense and intel systems that the US uses to fight terrorism and national security threats in the reason. So yes, while I am generally against US aid I'd much rather see money go to Israel than others. They take billions of money in per annum on oil while Israel gets millions. Not comparable.
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I didn't say these countries should just be handed money with checks or accountability. I said money should be put towards building facilities for the peaceful villages, like schools, clean water etc. Something the US could have done when occupying Iraq.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 1,473
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
Implying that any of these 20 bombs are going to stop another Paris attack
If you can't eliminate ISIS without eliminating egregious quantities of civilians, you're plan does not work. It's rather simple.
Not only are you motivating recruitment in the Middle East you are motivating people in your own country that belong to these ethnic groups. |
Please a full ground scale invasion would limit civilian casualties unless ISIS decides to sacrifice all the civilians in the region as a means of protection. If we do nothing recruitment will still happen so I really don't know what you're point is whatsoever.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
Implying that any of these 20 bombs are going to stop another Paris attack
If you can't eliminate ISIS without eliminating egregious quantities of civilians, you're plan does not work. It's rather simple.
Not only are you motivating recruitment in the Middle East you are motivating people in your own country that belong to these ethnic groups. |
So come up with one that IS better. I completely agree this plan has flaws, but bombing an Isis recruitment base still beats doing absolutely nothing at all. As said, you can sit around all day and say plans suck, but this plan still beats doing nothing. If you want to say don't do it, come up with something better. Because right now, we have two options: bomb Isis bases (some progress), or sit around, twiddle our thumbs, and hope they leave (PROVEN ineffective beyond a shadow of a doubt, no progress) Come up with a third option.
Most of these people are already interested in joining Isis, honestly. Do we have any reliable statistics for what you're claiming?
EDIT: It's also likely that civilian casualties were minimal and very low, considering they bombed an Isis recruitment and military base, not some random town
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally posted by Repo
The minute they do something even vaguely like that (trying to track down and shut down extremely radical Islamist Mosques), people scream Islamophobia. These people legitimately act like the best solution is for governments to sit around and twiddle their thumbs and pray Isis gives up. They have a problem with every course of action suggested, but come up with none of their own.
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It's quite disturbing when people sympathize with the enemy.
My government tried to put radical islamists into rehab with hugs and love instead of jail. I guess it didn't work out since it's never in the news 
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 1,473
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
I didn't say these countries should just be handed money with checks or accountability. I said money should be put towards building facilities for the peaceful villages, like schools, clean water etc. Something the US could have done when occupying Iraq.
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THEY CAN'T DO IT WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND. THE US GOVERNMENT CAN'T JUST SAY "OH ONLY USE MONEY ON GOOD THINGS". IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT. god you are dense. Who was going to build those schools and villages? US troops? The Iraqi citizens sure as hell weren't. This isn't Germany and Japan in which the entire world agreed on a resolution to fix it. These people didn't want us there in the first place. You're thinking and rationale is way to idealized and I really hope you realize that the real world sucks. Plain and simple. Not everything is all daisies and roses.
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Quote:
Originally posted by KyIe
Please a full ground scale invasion would limit civilian casualties unless ISIS decides to sacrifice all the civilians in the region as a means of protection. If we do nothing recruitment will still happen so I really don't know what you're point is whatsoever.
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You don't know what my point is because you only read what you want to see, and not what I've actually posted.
- "A full scale invasion would limit civilli a casualties"
Sure this hypothesis most likely holds some merit. Except we were discussing full scale invasion, we were discussing the bombings that are currently taking place, that will undoubtedly kill countless civilians.
- "If we do nothing recruitment will still happen"
I didn't say we should do nothing. I simply said bombing is not the answer. There is literally nothing to indicate bombings via the West are anything other than ineffective and counter productive.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
I didn't say these countries should just be handed money with checks or accountability. I said money should be put towards building facilities for the peaceful villages, like schools, clean water etc. Something the US could have done when occupying Iraq.
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We can't even afford to pay for all of our own people's wellbeing, you think paying for another country will work? ESPECIALLY one as war-torn and unstable as those in the Middle East, where we can't even ensure the money will be used properly?
Not to mention how, exactly, will producing these peaceful villages stop Isis. I'm not saying it's not a nice idea, but it will make absolutely no progress for stopping Isis and is incredibly unrealistic with our current financial state.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
- "If we do nothing recruitment will still happen"
I didn't say we should do nothing. I simply said bombing is not the answer. There is literally nothing to indicate bombings via the West are anything other than ineffective and counter productive.
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Their effectiveness is debateable, but they have been proven to be more productive than twiddling our thumbs and praying for the best. So for the millionth time, if you don't like the current course of action, I get it. Suggest. Something. Better. If your stuck between a bunch of weak ideas, you have to go with the best of the bad. Bombings are more likely to take out Isis than a ground invasion (and will also end with less overall death, honestly), and they certainly beat twiddling our thumbs. I get saying they're not very effective. So as I said. Suggest. Something. Better. Otherwise, it makes sense for the French government to take the most effective (or least ineffective) course of action that is currently presented.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 19,703
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
If you can't eliminate ISIS without eliminating egregious quantities of civilians, you're plan does not work. It's rather simple.
Not only are you motivating recruitment in the Middle East you are motivating people in your own country that belong to these ethnic groups. |
If it eliminates ISIS, it works for France.
If they don't attack even at the risk of killing innocents, then their own civilians will be killed. People are gonna die either way, who do you think the France government cares about?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Katy V.!
If it eliminates ISIS, it works for France.
If they don't attack even at the risk of killing innocents, then their own civilians will be killed. People are gonna die either way, who do you think the France government cares about?
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This is also accurate, and why I say "Sitting and twiddling your thumbs praying a miracle solution falls from the sky or Isis gives up just won't work." And also why I say "Come up with something better, or stop complaining about France acting in the most effective way they can."
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Quote:
Originally posted by KyIe
THEY CAN'T DO IT WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND. THE US GOVERNMENT CAN'T JUST SAY "OH ONLY USE MONEY ON GOOD THINGS". IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT. god you are dense. Who was going to build those schools and villages? US troops? The Iraqi citizens sure as hell weren't. This isn't Germany and Japan in which the entire world agreed on a resolution to fix it. These people didn't want us there in the first place. You're thinking and rationale is way to idealized and I really hope you realize that the real world sucks. Plain and simple. Not everything is all daisies and roses.
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You are underestimating the diversity of Iraqi villages and other alike countries. There are many who are welcoming to foreign aid.
You also may be underestimating the capacity of US resources. Earlier this year Obama was considering building new military bases in Iraq.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
You also may be underestimating the capacity of US resources. Earlier this year Obama was considering building new military bases in Iraq.
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We're trillions of dollars into debt. The number is RISING. We cannot afford to take care of all the U.S. citizens let alone all the Middle Eastern ones too (or even just one country of Middle Eastern citizens) You're overestimating our resources.
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Quote:
Originally posted by Katy V.!
If it eliminates ISIS, it works for France.
If they don't attack even at the risk of killing innocents, then their own civilians will be killed. People are gonna die either way, who do you think the France government cares about?
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And if you continue to kill innocents ISIS will live on.
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