I have had about ****ing enough of this goddamn "big bad condescending mean Retro" attitude and it's not going to continue.
Quote:
Originally posted by Flare
I've noticed that too. It feels like everyone who doesn't praise Hillary 100% is on trial these days. Meanwhile, some Hillary supporters are saying some interesting things that are fairly wrong and don't get any reproach about it. Then, there's the random Bernie insults every 2 pages most without sources and just personal hate.
It'd be nice if the political discussion could actually take place in a less hostile environment. I thought the new rules would make this thread better but it's starting to get worse.  |
I don't see how it's getting so horrible that Hillary has supporters who
disagree with what is being said and offer counterarguments. The idea of open dialogue isn't a one way street and doesn't exclude the majority group. It isn't in opposition to the majority group. It includes and is influenced by that majority group. Sure, personal hate is a problem, but since your post directly quotes lines about ME, I will note that I have kept it to facts and logic.
As for hostility, forgive me if I take these discussions as seriously as if they were about electing the next leader of this country. Forgive me if I don't quite like to tolerate misinformation about the candidate I support and work for.
Quote:
Originally posted by Auris
Oh my god Retro 
Gary is polling at 10%, not 1% like last year. Unfavorability helps third parties and empirically this is true (look at Perot and Roosevelt). Gary has gotten FAR more media attention this time around than last time, and his choice of VP (whom I disagree with at times) has also gotten a fair share of media time alongside the fact that he's also a FORMER GOVERNOR.
Stop being so condescending and pretending that Hillary is the only candidate. Let us be open to discussion about other candidates instead of shutting them down with your pro-Hillary bias.
Damn I used to like you. Now you're just flat out attacking and trying to invalidate anyone who isn't gung-ho on HRC.
Never seen a more condescending mod in my life. |
Let me discuss what I want to when I want to and if you don't like it don't quote me.
It is
my view that Johnson will NOT get significant support in the general election, and it is
a fact that he is he is NOT consistently polling at 10% when a very reliable agency placed him at 4% two weeks ago.
I can challenge ANY claim or point of view I want and nobody gets a special little "get out of Retro's posts for free" card. If I so choose to challenge what a poster is saying, that is my right and I am fully allowed to do so within the rules of this site. As long as I maintain a certain level of respect and adhere to the rules, I will be here arguing with anything I see as wrong. I will not apologize for that.
You can call that condescending or you can see it as literally exactly what you're all advocating now, since "everyone" being able to engage in an open dialogue includes me, but what you're surely going to do is deal with it.
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Now, about the bigger picture you're all talking about with this being a "Hillary echo chamber" - which I see as a hostile term for "place where people who support Hillary happen to all be posting because it is open and public and they have that right" - let's address that, shall we?
If you want actual political discussion, people could start by actually discussing what policies would best benefit our country and how they would do so. They could start by debating the way that the system works rather than screaming "RIGGED" and "ESTABLISHMENT" at the top of their lungs as people are so prone to doing in this cycle. They could start by
not giving credence to trolls like ezra (who, by the way, is now permanently banned from this site for unrelated reasons) or digging into Hillary and "how bad this looks" or "how low those poll numbers are" without sources, without backup, and without actual arguments.
I haven't seen a whole lot of capacity for legitimate political discussion in this thread when the opposition to the frontrunner for both the Democratic nomination and the Presidency is unwilling to treat her as a legitimate political entity, and would rather talk about skeletons that haven't been in the closet for years. I haven't seen a whole lot of capacity for intellectual debate when factual assertions are derided as being "condescending" or "not true" when they are sourced and are fully logical and correct.
If you think this is becoming an echo chamber for Hillary's supporters, maybe it's because we haven't engaged in anyone who has legitimately challenged her candidacy or proposals. Maybe it's because a legitimate majority of politically-engaged ATRLers support her and collaborate in defending her and discussing further ways she can develop her platform and candidacy. Maybe it's because there is a constant stream of misinformation regarding her actions and candidacy, a constant stream of negativity coming from all directions about her poll numbers or her presentation in a debate or this misinformed article about this scandal or that scandal or - um, you get the point. We clarify. We correct the record. We discuss these issues. If you do not want to engage in that discussion, do not engage - post about something else relevant to these elections and by doing so, engage in another.
But to expect that you will not be directly and, depending on your own claims or tones, sharply criticized and challenged? That is not realistic or appropriate. To expect that you should be free of the "attacks" of Hillary supporters when they are in the majority on this forum? That is not realistic. You don't get to seal yourself off and have what essentially constitutes a "Hillary doesn't have this support" echo chamber. We ALL collaborate in analyzing, criticizing, and debating the entire political system, including specific individual candidates.
As a message to anyone who feels that I've been too "condescending" or what have you: get over it, and talk about the issues. I will not make accommodations in tone for you.
