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Poll: Should trans-teen be able to use girl's lockerroom?
View Poll Results: I think that
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Yes, she identifies as a girl
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165 |
63.46% |
No, she still has a penis and should use the uni-sex bathroom
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95 |
36.54% |
Member Since: 12/28/2011
Posts: 4,274
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Why does having the proper Gentila matter so ****ing much there are bathroom stalls for a reason no one pisses in the open
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 5,723
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reggie
Nope, trannies are creepy and gross
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Wow...
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Member Since: 12/28/2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reggie
Nope, trannies are creepy and gross
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Transphobic trash.
Please educate yourself
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoubleK
Transphobic trash.
Please educate yourself
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Well, i have phd in biotechnology. So what's your point?
Do you want to say i'm ignorant, because i do feel uncomfortable around crossdresser boy who creeps me out in FEMALE locker room?
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Member Since: 12/28/2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reggie
Well, i have phd in biotechnology. So what's your point?
Do you want to say i'm ignorant, because i do feel uncomfortable around crossdresser boy who creeps me out in FEMALE locker room?
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No but your opinion does not matter no one cares about your poor little cis issues and what you are comfortable and not comfortable with
Transgender people deserve respect
And clearly you care a whole lot sis considering that your two first posts on this forum is in a transgender discussion thread
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoubleK
No but your opinion does not matter no one cares about your poor little cis issues and what you are comfortable and not comfortable with
Transgender people deserve respect
And clearly you care a whole lot sis considering that your two first posts on this forum is in a transgender discussion thread
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Which is the problem here. Everyone deserves respect. Even those with "poor little cis issues".
Now, everyone stay calm and keep it cute.
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Member Since: 12/28/2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
Which is the problem here. Everyone deserves respect. Even those with "poor little cis issues".
Now, everyone stay calm and keep it cute.
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I never said they don't deserve respect but why should they be able to deny transgender people of their rights
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoubleK
I never said they don't deserve respect but why should they be able to deny transgender people of their rights
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The right to undress in front of some other women while still having a dick? Use the unisex bathroom until you have a vagina or penis and continue fighting for actual ****, like the succesful dismantling of Transgender ban in the US military.
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Member Since: 12/28/2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
The right to undress in front of some other women while still having a dick? Use the unisex bathroom until you have a vagina or penis and continue fighting for actual ****, like the succesful dismantling of Transgender ban in the US military.
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You are apart of the problem.
Why can't a woman go in a women's bathroom?
If you idenify as a gender you should be able to go into that bathroom no? Everyone else can do it why do we have to make transgender people feel like they don't belong in either bathroom?
I'm not transgender either but maybe you don't understand fully sis is because you don't understand how important it is for those who are transitioning to be able to do "normal" as the other people with the same gender
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 8,746
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This kind of reminds me very loosely of the Little Rock Nine. I hope years from now the students protesting this realize how wrong they were.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reggie
Well, i have phd in biotechnology. So what's your point?
Do you want to say i'm ignorant, because i do feel uncomfortable around crossdresser boy who creeps me out in FEMALE locker room?
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You have a degree in biotechnology but still lack a formal education my goodness
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Member Since: 5/2/2012
Posts: 15,418
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Quote:
Originally posted by heauxm
Curious to know what ATRL's biological women think? (if we have any ) would you be okay in sharing the communal shower with her?
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Truthfully, it would be awkward and that's speaking from an adult perspective. Probably even moreso if I was still a teenage girl and exposed to far less than what I have been now. I wouldn't mind sharing the facility with a trans girl that still had a penis, but I probably would be uncomfortable with full nudity without some sort of privacy curtain or partition in such a scenario.
Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
So your point is, since the transman looks like a man he should be able to use the man's bathroom. Well what about a trans-girl that still looks like a man naked? How does she fit in any better in the girls' showers that the man you posted in the picture above?
Use the unisex shower until you have the proper equipment.
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Yes. My point is that someone having the appearance of their identified gender (even if less convincing than the ones I posted -- like Lila, for instance) is far better off just using the designated restroom for that gender.
Do you think, looking at that photo, Lila would be better off in a men's room? (I know the school has made alternative accommodations aside from the ladies' room, so just speaking in general terms of any public place) Do you honestly feel like Lila would be better off and safer and less disruptive NOT using the female facility with the way she looks, now? I honestly think the alternative would be far worse for Lila.
Appearance is the only thing we have to really go by to assess anyone's gender without speaking and is pretty much the only qualifier for being in some random stranger's presence in passing in a gender specific facility. I think most people have at this point heard of trans people even if they haven't yet met a trans person (or been aware that they have) and could put two and two together if the person's appearance wasn't fully assimilated to a more typical appearance of their identified gender.
And about the supposed showering, that was the question I had earlier and no one had an answer and nothing was even mentioned about showering. Most schools don't have kids showering after gym class because it's insanely impractical to have dozens to hundreds of students showering with the time constraints between classes. That would be an unlikely issue, so if this locker room is just changing into and out of gym clothing, there likely isn't any reason for them to be ever completely nude just stripping down to underwear.
They mentioned nothing in the article or in the video reports about that school using the facilities to shower, but if they do, I think that is a more sensitive issue and the school should consider another solution like having vinyl privacy curtains installed. I don't think this is even an issue given that nothing has even been directly mentioned about showering.
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Member Since: 12/1/2010
Posts: 23,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoubleK
You are apart of the problem.
Why can't a woman go in a women's bathroom?
If you idenify as a gender you should be able to go into that bathroom no? Everyone else can do it why do we have to make transgender people feel like they don't belong in either bathroom?
I'm not transgender either but maybe you don't understand fully sis is because you don't understand how important it is for those who are transitioning to be able to do "normal" as the other people with the same gender
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It seems as though many people believe bathrooms are less about your gender identity and more about what's in between your legs. It's an interesting conversation, I think. Should bathrooms + locker rooms be about your gender identity or your genitalia? I like gender neutral bathrooms because it doesn't matter either way, but as a cis male I at least have the option to use the men's or the gender neutral bathroom. Trans people don't always have the same options. I want people to have as many possible options as possible, yet some people don't feel comfortable with the idea of seeing - what physically appears to them - the opposite sex in their private spaces.
I disagree with what you posted where you dismissed cis people who feel uncomfortable. Maybe if we figured out why they were so uncomfortable it would be easier to confront their fears. Many straight men feel uncomfortable around gay guys because they assume they want them, but when I kindly explain to them they're ugly their fears diminish.
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Member Since: 12/28/2011
Posts: 4,274
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OK to clear up my comment about cis people
I am cis myself all I was trying to say was towards the cis people who completly disregard everyone elses feelings (in this case transgender people) and put their feelings of being uncomfortable or not ok with over ahead of how a transgender person's feelings would feel by not being "allowed" into a bathroom of the gender they identify with by other cis people of that gender.
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Member Since: 3/6/2011
Posts: 7,176
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vertigo Stick
It is important. That's like saying 'ethnic culture is ********! We're all one!' No, culture is important just as gender is. I'm not a blank. I identify with my gender because it is part of who I am as an individual. It is more important to get people to understand gender than it is to get rid of it. We should be teaching people to accept differences, not ignore them.
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I think gender distinction has more drawbacks than benefits. Its not the same as ethnicity. Gender concepts actually evolved to legimitize the partiarchy (like woman are weak=need to be controlled by men, woman must be pretty cuz its their only way to control men etc). Ethniticity and many other social categories do not have this fuction, so IMO we need to eliminate gender differentations as much as we can and using less dangerous categories.
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Member Since: 1/27/2006
Posts: 51,546
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This is so touchy.
On one hand, yes she identifies as female and that should be respected. They're in enough pain of trying to figure themselves out, there doesn't need to be harsh judgment.
On the other hand, she still has the parts of a male. Unfortunately, this is going to make a lot of female students and their parents concerned. I don't think it is fair to call all or any one who concurs bigots or transphobic, unless they've been openly hateful as some have been in this thread.
Maybe they don't understand it all, but what if they do and still feel uncomfortable?
On top of that, there's the potential for bullying, harassment, physical & sexual abuse on Lila. Vice versa, someone could claim she abused them out of spite and you have an entire new situation. This issue is lawsuit city, especially dealing with primary schools.
You really have to consider all avenues and everyone's feelings with this type of thing. All 13-18 year old girls are not transphobic POS' for not being comfortable with the idea. Nor can you fault all parents in current times for having a concern.
The school has at least been supportive, not banning her from female facilities plus offering her neutral and staff ones as well.
I am slightly offended she compared this to black civil rights, however. The school nor government hasn't completely shunned her as a human being. She's simply dealing with a social issue that many still needed to be educated on. Not lawful segregation, murderings, violence, etc. That was very dramatic.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ascension
Truthfully, it would be awkward and that's speaking from an adult perspective. Probably even moreso if I was still a teenage girl and exposed to far less than what I have been now. I wouldn't mind sharing the facility with a trans girl that still had a penis, but I probably would be uncomfortable with full nudity without some sort of privacy curtain or partition in such a scenario.
Yes. My point is that someone having the appearance of their identified gender (even if less convincing than the ones I posted -- like Lila, for instance) is far better off just using the designated restroom for that gender.
Do you think, looking at that photo, Lila would be better off in a men's room? (I know the school has made alternative accommodations aside from the ladies' room, so just speaking in general terms of any public place) Do you honestly feel like Lila would be better off and safer and less disruptive NOT using the female facility with the way she looks, now? I honestly think the alternative would be far worse for Lila.
Appearance is the only thing we have to really go by to assess anyone's gender without speaking and is pretty much the only qualifier for being in some random stranger's presence in passing in a gender specific facility. I think most people have at this point heard of trans people even if they haven't yet met a trans person (or been aware that they have) and could put two and two together if the person's appearance wasn't fully assimilated to a more typical appearance of their identified gender.
And about the supposed showering, that was the question I had earlier and no one had an answer and nothing was even mentioned about showering. Most schools don't have kids showering after gym class because it's insanely impractical to have dozens to hundreds of students showering with the time constraints between classes. That would be an unlikely issue, so if this locker room is just changing into and out of gym clothing, there likely isn't any reason for them to be ever completely nude just stripping down to underwear.
They mentioned nothing in the article or in the video reports about that school using the facilities to shower, but if they do, I think that is a more sensitive issue and the school should consider another solution like having vinyl privacy curtains installed. I don't think this is even an issue given that nothing has even been directly mentioned about showering.
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Well, what about when that person doesn't have the appearance of their identified gender? That is the issue here. What about when a trans-teen, when she's just showered and is naked and make up free, looks like a boy in a girl's bathroom? (Or is disrobing and looks just like a boy?)
Would your reply then be, "Well she can use communal showers only IF there are privacy curtains", wouldn't having to use privacy curtains because of Lila, give the signal that she ISN'T just like the other girls anyways?
And regarding safety, Lila wasn't being forced to use the man's bathroom. She was offered the use of a unisex bathroom. She declined.
And secondly, you make men bathrooms sound extremely evil, so then what about a transteen that has a vagina but identiifes as a boy. Would you then say to him wth his vagina and breasts"NO don't use man showers, it's disruptive, it's not safe,"?? And if ur answer is YES to that question, why isn't it disruptive for Lila to use the girl's bathroom?
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 15,224
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
The right to undress in front of some other women while still having a dick? Use the unisex bathroom until you have a vagina or penis and continue fighting for actual ****, like the succesful dismantling of Transgender ban in the US military.
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The bathroom thing is a no brainer.
Girls bathrooms are all cubicles so a pre-op trans woman is not going to do any harm there.
Guys bathrooms have some cubicles and a pre-op trans person would be using those rather than urinals so again, no harm there.
The locker room thing is slightly more complicated but honestly, as long as she's not getting fully naked (which she's not going to be), it's fine.
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Member Since: 9/2/2012
Posts: 7,210
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Kardashian
The bathroom thing is a no brainer.
Girls bathrooms are all cubicles so a pre-op trans woman is not going to do any harm there.
Guys bathrooms have some cubicles and a pre-op trans person would be using those rather than urinals so again, no harm there.
The locker room thing is slightly more complicated but honestly, as long as she's not getting fully naked (which she's not going to be), it's fine.
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Exactly, I don't understand why everyone keeps saying they're getting naked.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vertigo Stick
It seems as though many people believe bathrooms are less about your gender identity and more about what's in between your legs. It's an interesting conversation, I think. Should bathrooms + locker rooms be about your gender identity or your genitalia? I like gender neutral bathrooms because it doesn't matter either way, but as a cis male I at least have the option to use the men's or the gender neutral bathroom. Trans people don't always have the same options. I want people to have as many possible options as possible, yet some people don't feel comfortable with the idea of seeing - what physically appears to them - the opposite sex in their private spaces.
I disagree with what you posted where you dismissed cis people who feel uncomfortable. Maybe if we figured out why they were so uncomfortable it would be easier to confront their fears. Many straight men feel uncomfortable around gay guys because they assume they want them, but when I kindly explain to them they're ugly their fears diminish.
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That's a really thoughtful contribution to the discussion!
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