Oh trust me I really see what pooooooooor Israel is going through
Are hundreds/thousands of your kids killed every year ? are your land taken by other people ? are your houses destroyed over and over again ? do you live under embargo since forever ?..... the answer is NO
Your answer is really childish and shows you didn't make a research or watched and read what I wrote in the thread so far, I won't say things over and over again. Israel suffered a lot since it's begging, and there was NO reason for it to happen. Any other country in the world wouldn't suffer the same state of rockets being sent to her for years without reacting.
It's really interesting why this things happens, maybe if your small state would suffer more than 100 rockets being sent to her each day, for years
You have to ask yourself how did it get to this point to being with. Israel is not all that innocent.
In fact, they're just furthering their former initiatives.
Does it not bother you that Israel owns (read: occupies) lands that weren't fairly allotted to them?
You have to ask yourself how did it get to this point to being with. Israel is not all that innocent.
In fact, they're just furthering their former initiatives.
Does it not bother you that Israel owns (read: occupies) lands that weren't fairly allotted to them?
So in the early 2000's, Israel basically gave up a majority of Gaza, gave them billions of dollars, set up greenhouses to set up sustainable farming, built medical centers, trained teachers there, built schools, helped with irrigation, and tried to help Palestinians start a society. What happened? They voted for Hamas, tore of all that down, built tunnels underneath the ground, and started attacking Israel with rockets, every day for years. When Israel sends a rocket to Palestinian in self-defense (who started this present conflict?) they send a note beforehand specifying exactly where they will attack, because Israel is concerned with protecting Palestinian lives. Do you see Palestine doing anything like that? The answer is no.
Does it not bother you that the Hamas charter clearly says that it will not stop until "the complete and total extermination of the Jewish people" ? Or is that okay too?
So in the early 2000's, Israel basically gave up a majority of Gaza, gave them billions of dollars, set up greenhouses to set up sustainable farming, built medical centers, trained teachers there, built schools, helped with irrigation, and tried to help Palestinians start a society.
Billions of dollars? Source?
I can't speak to your claims of Israel building schools, medical center, etc. But as far as the greenhouses are concerned, about half of them were dismantled by the Israelis who had owned them.
Quote:
Of the roughly 1,000 acres of agricultural land that were under greenhouses in the 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza, only 500 acres remain - creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as "a living business," the goal cited by the Israeli coordinator of the pullout, Eival Giladi. [x]
Not to mention Israel never relinquished full control. After the disengagement, they still controlled Gaza's borders, coastline and airspace. A move which left many Palestinians doubtful of meaningful reform from Israel, hence the election of Hamas to hopefully continue pushing Israel out. To say the least, Palestine got a unilateral, raw deal.
What happened? They voted for Hamas, tore of all that down, built tunnels underneath the ground, and started attacking Israel with rockets, every day for years. When Israel sends a rocket to Palestinian in self-defense (who started this present conflict?) they send a note beforehand specifying exactly where they will attack, because Israel is concerned with protecting Palestinian lives. Do you see Palestine doing anything like that? The answer is no.
The "present" conflict is a continuation of the old conflict. You can't acknowledge one without linking to the other. That's how historical timelines work. There's a cause and effect. And the old conflict is definitely born from Israel's conquest for land.
Even Moshe Dayan, a former Israeli defense minister, echoed this sentiment in 1956 when a young Israeli was murdered:
Quote:
Originally posted by Moshe Dayan's Eulogy | 1956
Let us not today cast blame on his murderers. What can we say against their terrible hatred of us? For eight years now, they have sat in the refugee camps of Gaza and have watched how, before their very eyes, we have turned their land and villages, where they and their forefathers previously dwelled, into our home.”
The problem is, even though Israel can give back parts of Gaza, they give back like they don't want to. And it shows. Palestine has little leverage in all this. For the conflict to truly die, Israel will have to bring more to the table. They hold almost all the cards.
Does it not bother you that the Hamas charter clearly says that it will not stop until "the complete and total extermination of the Jewish people" ? Or is that okay too?
Yes, it bothers me that Hamas is currently steering the ship for Palestine, but Israel hasn't done much to restore the Palestinians' faith in them. Israel could do more to draw support away from Hamas. But instead, they choose to escalate the violence.
The "present" conflict is a continuation of the old conflict. You can't acknowledge one without linking to the other. That's how historical timelines work. There's a cause and effect. And the old conflict is definitely born from Israel's conquest for land.
Even Moshe Dayan, a former Israeli defense minister, echoed this sentiment in 1956 when a young Israeli was murdered:
The problem is, even though Israel can give back parts of Gaza, they give back like they don't want to. And it shows. Palestine has little leverage in all this. For the conflict to truly die, Israel will have to bring more to the table. They hold almost all the cards.
People need to let the past GO. What is done is done. Israel will not disappear if everyone decides they don't have a right to the land.
Even though I won't claim that Israel isn't going way too far in this (because I believe they are), I find the authenticity of this video very questionable. Every time there's an alleged shot the camera is out of focus or not pointing at where it happened. A sniper shot is huge and will be noticable, especially if hit 3 times, yet there's nothing to be seen when the camera is back in focus.
If this video is legit, then I hope he rests in peace and wish strength to his family
But I don't think it is real, sorry.
It is legit, the new york times reported on how he was missing and how his family found him due to the youtube video, he actually died. There are also first hand testimonies from activists who witnessed it.
The young man who was murdered in Shajiya after being wounded by an Israeli sniper, has been confirmed as Salem Khalil Salem Shammaly, 23-years-old, resident of Shajiya
People need to let the past GO. What is done is done. Israel will not disappear if everyone decides they don't have a right to the land.
fff. The past is what has determined the present. By any logical means, it's impossible to let the past go. It's not like Hamas just started rocketing out of nowhere. There are some humanitarian and political motivations behind their actions. It doesn't make it right, that's just the reality.
The way I see it, Israel can exist, but so should Palestine. But who do you honestly believe has the power to make that a reality? Palestinians split into Gaza and the West Bank or the sovereign state of Israel backed by Russia and the US (+ its allies)?
It's dicey, but the burden clearly falls on Israel. They simply have the means. Which is why I'm hoping they can take out Hamas this time around and do more (a lot more) for the Palestinian people to shut out future outside influence.
To me the situation isn't as black and white as some make it out to be.
Israel is basically land that was taken from the Palestinians. I wouldn't be all to happy either. However, this is not the current Israeli's fault, nor the past Israeli's fault. Technically it's the fault of the European countries that decided that the Palestinian land is now suddenly Israelian land. In that regard Palestinian's anger is justified but misdirected somewhat.
Then Hamas started attacking Israel, and Israel started fighting back. I find it hard to say who's right and who's wrong in this conflict, as it's really not that simple.
And even though Israel is using a way too much force right now that ends up killing way too many innocent civilians, I again find it hard to simply blame Israel considering Hamas uses these civilians as human shields. They hide underneath packed buildings, and quite literally use civilians as human shields while shooting at the Israelian army. Of course that's going to go wrong. Once again I really can't choose who's at fault for this messed up horrible situation. It's not as one-sided it some make it out to be; both Hamas and Israel are playing dirty at the moment.
To me the situation isn't as black and white as some make it out to be.
Israel is basically land that was taken from the Palestinians. I wouldn't be all to happy either. However, this is not the current Israeli's fault, nor the past Israeli's fault. Technically it's the fault of the European countries that decided that the Palestinian land is now suddenly Israelian land. In that regard Palestinian's anger is justified but misdirected somewhat.
Then Hamas started attacking Israel, and Israel started fighting back. I find it hard to say who's right and who's wrong in this conflict, as it's really not that simple.
And even though Israel is using a way too much force right now that ends up killing way too many innocent civilians, I again find it hard to simply blame Israel considering Hamas uses these civilians as human shields. They hide underneath packed buildings, and quite literally use civilians as human shields while shooting at the Israelian army. Of course that's going to go wrong. Once again I really can't choose who's at fault for this messed up horrible situation. It's not as one-sided it some make it out to be; both Hamas and Israel are playing dirty at the moment.
The problem isn't as much the fact that Israel got some land there, it's that they keep claiming new bits of land, slowly driving the Palestinians away and not allowing them to have any land, so for that the Israeli's are the ones in the wrong, no matter how you look at it. They are invading Palestinian land right now and they are just trying to start a settlement there so they can claim it for themselves, it's what they've been doing since the beginning. You would defend your home from a burglar or a squatter too, right?
The problem isn't as much the fact that Israel got some land there, it's that they keep claiming new bits of land, slowly driving the Palestinians away and not allowing them to have any land, so for that the Israeli's are the ones in the wrong, no matter how you look at it. They are invading Palestinian land right now and they are just trying to start a settlement there so they can claim it for themselves, it's what they've been doing since the beginning. You would defend your home from a burglar or a squatter too, right?
I see. I looked up some articles and it seems this has indeed been happening a lot...
That is quite ****ed up, yeah. I still think that the way Hamas is attacking Israel isn't the right answer to it obviously. But I read an article explaining that Palestina can't do anything to stop Israel from slowly taking more of their land.
Newborn baby found in ruins and rescued alive (Thank God). Or as ExtraOrdinary would state, a "human shield" managed to deflect Israeli attack. Goddamn it.
(Ismael Mohamad / United Press International) Medical workers killed, injured as Israel targets Gaza health infrastructure
“The Israelis are using a wide variety of sophisticated modern weapons against a basically naked civilian population,” said renowned Norwegian doctor Mads Gilbert in a phone interview with The Electronic Intifada on Tuesday, 22 July.
“This is state terrorism at a very sophisticated and very high level,” he added.
Speaking over the phone from al-Shifa hospital where he is helping to treat the wounded, Gilbert described the horrors he has witnessed in Gaza in recent days as the bodies of mostly Palestinian women and children are brought to the hopsital torn to shreds by an Israeli arsenal deliberately aimed at civilians.
Israel has bombed at least 25 health care facilities, killing and injuring several medical workers, said Gilbert, whose repeated appeals for the UN to step in and protect Palestinian hospitals from Israeli attacks that clearly violate international law have been resulted in meaningful action on the ground.
“What would have happened if Palestinian fighters had bombed an Israeli hospital and killed five patients?” Gilbert commented. “The world would have turned upside down. What is this second-hand, or even third-hand or fourth-hand citizenship in the world for the Palestinians?”
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You are filth if you think these bodies are human shields. You fit 1.8 million people into a strip of land the size of Rhode Island, you are BOUND to hurt civlians, especially women and children who have nothing to do with Hamas. You have countries backing you up but you can't afford to do an intelligent ground filtration and strike Hamas members individually in these places, but instead you strike an ENTIRE INFRASTRUCTURE needed for the aid of civilians?
There is a goddamn limit to the amount of pride you can have in your country. Your brain is not functioning if you think this is the right thing to do.
Quote:
Originally posted by ExtraOrdinary
Your answer is really childish and shows you didn't make a research or watched and read what I wrote in the thread so far, I won't say things over and over again. Israel suffered a lot since it's begging, and there was NO reason for it to happen. Any other country in the world wouldn't suffer the same state of rockets being sent to her for years without reacting.
We won't repeat ourselves again either but for once, for your brain's sake, we will. Israel has FULL right to defend, but the METHOD in which they are doing it is violating tens of international laws, goes against mankind and humanity, and is DISPROPORTIONAL to the threat they are receiving.
I would like the see what the US would do if hundreds of rockets were launched it's way. And how different your reactions would be.
Yeah.
The only thing that could solve this endless war are peace talks between Israel government and Palestinian authorities to define a treaty that leaves everyone happy (of course both sides need to give up on something...) but then there's that terrorist pest called Hamas.