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Fan Base: Lady Gaga
Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 3,375
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bang Up
I guess we'll never know about the demo~
To be completely honest, I don't think the fans who criticize ARTPOP even know why they don't like ARTPOP. It's one of those things where everything they criticize is based on something that just isn't true (like lazy songwriting or "pre-made beats"). It doesn't mean their opinions are invalid, of course, just founded on something that's not entirely true.
I just think ARTPOP was doomed before it was even released, tbh. Nothing could have changed the way people perceived it or the way it performed. Maybe in the future we'll look back on it with a more gentle point of view.
Oh, speaking of 'Sexxx Dreams', I still don't understand why she changed the original bridge...
That is some killer songwriting. 
Just goes to show how insecure she was back then and how much she changed things. |
Artpop is too hollow. That's my criticism. It lacks a certain edge that Gaga has always had and the songs feel way too basic and forgettable and the standouts are always messy in a way (Applause lyrics, Aura vocals, GUY having virtually no chorus, Venus being a mash-up of many songs).
I still find a way to love the songs but they do feel sub-par for Gaga's standards. They don't give that sense of fierceness that Bad Romance or BTW do.
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Member Since: 3/5/2014
Posts: 7,746
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giorgoc
Artpop is too hollow. That's my criticism. It lacks a certain edge that Gaga has always had and the songs feel way too basic and forgettable and the standouts are always messy in a way (Applause lyrics, Aura vocals, GUY having virtually no chorus, Venus being a mash-up of many songs).
I still find a way to love the songs but they do feel sub-par for Gaga's standards. They don't give that sense of fierceness that Bad Romance or BTW do.
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This is basically how I feel about "The Fame" sans a couple of tracks. I think "ARTPOP" contains some of her edgiest, most out-there tracks to date. And I feel the production, as in the way she music itself sounds, is the best on any of her albums.
But I also refrain from comparing her music now to her music back when I first discovered her. If you do that, her newer music will always fall short simply because nothing will ever compare to how you felt during those earlier years.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
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Quote:
Originally posted by ELECTRAHEARTPOP
Yeah the time of Christmas 2013 was absolutely awful as a fanbase, so much was happening, then early 2014 was pretty bad with that freaky ass painting, and everyone was on edge because Kesha's rehab was fresh in our minds and we were scared Gaga was about to go the same way. Just a terrible time, I'm so glad I didn't post on ATRL until like June  |
Quote:
Originally posted by Teneo
The painting. We were so lost and speechless when she uploaded that. No one had anything to say  |
I discussed this already sistren (see below). It was essentially a means of emotional alleviation through creative artistic release, funneled through a reference to a well known painting, AKA one of the fundamental themes of ARTPOP.
Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
Time for some art history. 
Figure 1: Francisco Goya, Saturn Devouring His Son. Oil mural transferred to canvas; 1819-1833.
Figure 2: Lady Gaga, Untitled. Unknown medium; 2014.
Francisco Goya’s piece Saturn Devouring His Son (Figure 1) depicts a scene where, fearing one of his offspring would grow up to overthrow him, the mythological Roman god Saturn devours one of his sons. The ******* eyes of Saturn indicate an insanity and ferocity that mirror the grotesque action that he performs, eyes that can also be seen in Gaga’s piece in Figure 2. Saturn is also literally falling apart at the seams - his skin is warped, and parts of his body seem to detach in places they normally would not. (This technically could be nothing more than the effects of painting with a brush, but, given the subject matter, it’s much more likely that these effects were intentional.) This can also be seen, even more so actually, in Gaga’s piece, where the make up of the body of the “little baby demon pet” as she called it seems to defy explanation - is it skin, is it feathers, or is it perhaps a monstrous melding of the two? The viewer is left with these questions due to the beastly make up of the creature’s body. In addition to the parallels between the actual works themselves, there is also some faint similarity between the back stories of each piece. Just as Gaga was, as she later admitted, undergoing much mental and emotional turmoil during the time period in which her piece was made, so too was Goya, who suffered mentally from the effects of a physical illness along with the turmoil occurring in his country, when his was made. (Fun fact: Gaga gave her painting to Tony Bennett. Since he was arguably the defining factors in her finding her drive and passion again after she fell into a new level off depression in 2013-2014, as she implied, it makes sense that she gave him the physical manifestation of this pain. Just as her figuratively took away much of her suffering, so too did he take away it’s physical interpretation.) |
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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If we're going to compare critically, I don't think ARTPOP stacks up to TF(M) or Born This Way. What I like about The Fame is the cohesion of the album, the calculated attention to detail, and the theme. With The Fame Monster, the deeper exploration of the theme with a more personal tone and the flawless, on-point production and atmosphere. When it came to Born This Way, it was the how her natural persona was so brightly reflected in the album and it was a progression of the amazing production.
What I feel ARTPOP loses is the spirit that Gaga poured into her other records. The Fame was about the attention and fame she wanted so badly, TFM was about her life while experiencing that fame, and Born This Way was a passionate statement about her ideology and personal life. ARTPOP doesn't have one solid theme like that, as far as songwriting and subject. It's more general, and without the elements that tie it together. It's kind of like a teenager rebelling against her parents.
While this worked extremely well in some ways, it also felt rather disjointed and resulted in overall the poorest reception of any of her records yet, and I feel like that was the reason.
The production could be overbearing sometimes, and I feel that the lack of a singular direction hurt the overall writing (as I stated before). While the songwriting is still great, given her talent, it's not as expertly tuned as it was before.
This is all just how I feel. I'm inclined to place ARTPOP in contention for my top spot among her albums, but at the same time I feel that it's difficult to really say that it was done better than the rest. Subjectively, it fights daily with the others. Objectively, I don't think I can call it her best - but I don't think I can call it her worst. All her albums are just so ridiculously different. It's not like a "Femme Fatale is definitely better than Britney Jean" type of statement, because the sonic progression of Gaga's discography is too fast to accurately compare records to each other sometimes.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Ugh, the painting. If that's a physical manifestation of how she felt at that time, I'm more than happy to leave that era far behind.
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Member Since: 6/22/2012
Posts: 13,352
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How come a lot of songs on Born This Way have that echo-like/almost underproduced sounding vocals?
e.g. Highway Unicorn
I like it though. Gave an extra 80s vibe.
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Member Since: 11/17/2011
Posts: 32,412
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gagamon
How come a lot of songs on Born This Way have that echo-like/almost underproduced sounding vocals?
e.g. Highway Unicorn
I like it though. Gave an extra 80s vibe.
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For the 80's vibe also they were made that way so they could stand out behind the massively overproduced production qualities of a lot of the songs. A lot of pop songs are done that way, it's just that with BTW (the album) you can REALLY hear it without having to try to hear it.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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I guess my problem with ARTPOP - despite how much I love it - is that it doesn't commit. Either make it more restrained and calculated, or really let it all go a la Burqa demo and MJH. Don't be half and half.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
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By the way, two days from now (03/22) is the one year anniversary of the G.U.Y. video. I honestly can't fathom that it's already been a year.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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I'm almost surprised it's only been a year. So much has happened since then.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 6,504
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
By the way, tomorrow (03/21) is the one year anniversary of the G.U.Y. video. I honestly can't fathom that it's already been a year.
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Isn't released on March 22 though? 
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Member Since: 6/22/2012
Posts: 13,352
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Quote:
Originally posted by LadyGagaStan93
For the 80's vibe also they were made that way so they could stand out behind the massively overproduced production qualities of a lot of the songs. A lot of pop songs are done that way, it's just that with BTW (the album) you can REALLY hear it without having to try to hear it.
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Ah. I see, that makes sense. I enjoy it. But I never listened to another album in which the songs had vocal production like BTW...except maybe 21.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
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Quote:
Originally posted by OreGuy
Isn't released on March 22 though? |
Wait yes, you're right. Let me go edit real quick.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,244
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ARTPOP as a whole has some good bops. Mary Jane Holland, Artpop, Applause, DWUW and others are extremely good but like someone said before it does feel hollow and forgettable, almost. I don't know what it is, but ever since the Swinefest I felt really disconnected to the album and it just lacked something. I still think it's better than The Fame as a whole album, even if The Fame had better singles.
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Speaking of G.U.Y. anniversary, I've been working on this thing 'This Day in Gaga History'. I remember as a Mariah stan, this one fansite had this huge day-by-day collection of stuff that happened on her career that day, and I thought it'd be cool to start one for her. 
All I have is tour starts/endings, single releases, album releases, music video releases, and high profile performances and such so far though.
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January:
January 10th • 'Eh, Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)' is released as a single. (2009)
January 12th • 'The Fame Ball Tour' is announced. (2009)
January 26th • 'Telephone' is released as a single. (2010)
February:
February 11th • 'Born this Way' (song) is released. (2011)
February 11th • 'Born This Way Ball' final date is performed. (2013)
February 13th • 'Born This Way Ball' is announced cancelled due to hip injury. (2013)
February 14th • Taylor Kinney engages Gaga. (2015)
February 16th • Gaga announces engagement to Taylor Kinney. (2015)
February 22nd • Gaga performs Sound of the Music Tribute at 87th Academy Awards. (2015)
February 25th • Gaga announces role on 'American Horror Story: Hotel'. (2015)
February 28th • 'Born this Way' music video premieres. (2011)
March:
March 3rd • 'The Remix' is released. (2010)
March 11th • 'Telephone' music video premieres. (2010)
March 12th • 'The Fame Ball Tour' begins. (2009)
March 22nd • 'G.U.Y.' music video premieres. (2014)
March 23rd • 'LoveGame' is released as a single. (2009)
March 23rd • 'LoveGame' music video premieres. (2009)
March 28th • 'Live at Roseland Ballroom' begins. (2014)
April:
April 7th • 'Live at Roseland Ballroom' ends. (2014)
April 8th • 'Just Dance' is officially released as a single. (2008)
April 15th • 'Judas' is officially released. (2011)
April 20th • 'Alejandro' is released as a single. (2010)
April 27th • 'Born this Way Ball' begins. (2012)
May:
May 4th • 'ArtRave: The Artpop Ball' begins. (2014)
May 5th • 'Judas' music video is released. (2011)
May 6th • 'The Monster Ball Tour' ends. (2011)
May 9th • 'The Edge of Glory' is released. (2011)
May 7th • 'Monster Ball Tour: At Madison Square Garden' airs on HBO. (2011)
May 23rd • 'Born this Way' (album) is released. (2011)
June:
June 8th • 'Alejandro' music video premieres. (2010)
June 16th • 'The Edge of Glory' music video premieres. (2011)
July:
July 6th • 'Paparazzi' is released as a single. (2009)
August:
August 12th • 'Applause' is released. (2013)
August 19th • 'Applause' music video is released. (2013)
August 23rd • 'Yoü and I' is released as a single. (2011)
August 25th • Gaga performs 'Applause' at 2013 MTV VMA's. (2013)
August 28th • Gaga performs 'You & I' at 2011 MTV VMA's, and wins 2 VMA's. (2011)
September:
September 12th • Lady Gaga wins 8 VMA's, including Video of the Year at the MTV VMA's. (2010)
September 13th • Gaga performs 'Paparazzi' at MTV VMA's, wins 3 VMA's. (2009)
September 19th • 'Cheek to Cheek' is released. (2014)
September 26th • 'Poker Face' is released as a single. (2008)
September 29th • 'The Fame Ball Tour' ends. (2009)
October:
October 21st • 'Do What U Want' is released. (2013)
October 22nd • 'Poker Face' music video premieres. (2008)
October 26th • 'Bad Romance' is released as a single. (2009)
October 28th • 'The Fame' is released. (2008)
November:
November 8th • 'ARTPOP' is released. (2013)
November 10th • 'ArtRave' two-day promotional concert begins. (2013)
November 10th • 'Bad Romance' music video premieres. (2009)
November 15th • 'Marry the Night' is released as a single. (2011)
November 18th • 'The Fame Monster' is released. (2009)
November 18th • 'Born this Way: The Remix' is released. (2011)
November 22nd • 'A Very Gaga Holiday' EP is released. (2011)
November 24th • 'A Very Gaga Thanksgiving' airs. (2011)
November 24th • 'ArtRave: The Artpop Ball' ends. (2014)
November 27th • 'The Monster Ball Tour' begins. (2009)
December:
December 1st • 'Marry the Night' music video premieres. (2011)
December 30th • 'Cheek to Cheek Tour' begins. (2014)
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Member Since: 6/23/2011
Posts: 4,897
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
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November 15th • 'Marry the Night' is released as a single. (2011)
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The Day the Career Stood Still 
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,821
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Quote:
Originally posted by iHype.
Speaking of G.U.Y. anniversary, I've been working on this thing 'This Day in Gaga History'. I remember as a Mariah stan, this one fansite had this huge day-by-day collection of stuff that happened on her career that day, and I thought it'd be cool to start one for her.
All I have is tour starts/endings, single releases, album releases, music video releases, and high profile performances and such so far though.
.
January:
January 10th • 'Eh, Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)' is released as a single. (2009)
January 12th • 'The Fame Ball Tour' is announced. (2009)
January 26th • 'Telephone' is released as a single. (2010)
February:
February 11th • 'Born this Way' (song) is released. (2011)
February 11th • 'Born This Way Ball' final date is performed. (2013)
February 13th • 'Born This Way Ball' is announced cancelled due to hip injury. (2013)
February 14th • Taylor Kinney engages Gaga. (2015)
February 16th • Gaga announces engagement to Taylor Kinney. (2015)
February 22nd • Gaga performs Sound of the Music Tribute at 87th Academy Awards. (2015)
February 25th • Gaga announces role on 'American Horror Story: Hotel'. (2015)
February 28th • 'Born this Way' music video premieres. (2011)
March:
March 3rd • 'The Remix' is released. (2010)
March 11th • 'Telephone' music video premieres. (2010)
March 12th • 'The Fame Ball Tour' begins. (2009)
March 22nd • 'G.U.Y.' music video premieres. (2014)
March 23rd • 'LoveGame' is released as a single. (2009)
March 23rd • 'LoveGame' music video premieres. (2009)
March 28th • 'Live at Roseland Ballroom' begins. (2014)
April:
April 7th • 'Live at Roseland Ballroom' ends. (2014)
April 8th • 'Just Dance' is officially released as a single. (2008)
April 15th • 'Judas' is officially released. (2011)
April 20th • 'Alejandro' is released as a single. (2010)
April 27th • 'Born this Way Ball' begins. (2012)
May:
May 4th • 'ArtRave: The Artpop Ball' begins. (2014)
May 5th • 'Judas' music video is released. (2011)
May 6th • 'The Monster Ball Tour' ends. (2011)
May 9th • 'The Edge of Glory' is released. (2011)
May 7th • 'Monster Ball Tour: At Madison Square Garden' airs on HBO. (2011)
May 23rd • 'Born this Way' (album) is released. (2011)
June:
June 8th • 'Alejandro' music video premieres. (2010)
June 16th • 'The Edge of Glory' music video premieres. (2011)
July:
July 6th • 'Paparazzi' is released as a single. (2009)
August:
August 12th • 'Applause' is released. (2013)
August 19th • 'Applause' music video is released. (2013)
August 23rd • 'Yoü and I' is released as a single. (2011)
August 25th • Gaga performs 'Applause' at 2013 MTV VMA's. (2013)
August 28th • Gaga performs 'You & I' at 2011 MTV VMA's, and wins 2 VMA's. (2011)
September:
September 12th • Lady Gaga wins 8 VMA's, including Video of the Year at the MTV VMA's. (2010)
September 13th • Gaga performs 'Paparazzi' at MTV VMA's, wins 3 VMA's. (2009)
September 19th • 'Cheek to Cheek' is released. (2014)
September 26th • 'Poker Face' is released as a single. (2008)
September 29th • 'The Fame Ball Tour' ends. (2009)
October:
October 21st • 'Do What U Want' is released. (2013)
October 22nd • 'Poker Face' music video premieres. (2008)
October 26th • 'Bad Romance' is released as a single. (2009)
October 28th • 'The Fame' is released. (2008)
November:
November 8th • 'ARTPOP' is released. (2013)
November 10th • 'ArtRave' two-day promotional concert begins. (2013)
November 10th • 'Bad Romance' music video premieres. (2009)
November 15th • 'Marry the Night' is released as a single. (2011)
November 18th • 'The Fame Monster' is released. (2009)
November 18th • 'Born this Way: The Remix' is released. (2011)
November 22nd • 'A Very Gaga Holiday' EP is released. (2011)
November 24th • 'A Very Gaga Thanksgiving' airs. (2011)
November 24th • 'ArtRave: The Artpop Ball' ends. (2014)
November 27th • 'The Monster Ball Tour' begins. (2009)
December:
December 1st • 'Marry the Night' music video premieres. (2011)
December 30th • 'Cheek to Cheek Tour' begins. (2014)
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Gagapedia has something like that, although I'm not entirely sure if it's completely up to date. Just type in a date in the search bar. For example, here's the page for November 11.
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheNight
Gagapedia has something like that, although I'm not entirely sure if it's completely up to date. Just type in a date in the search bar. For example, here's the page for November 11. |
Ooh, I should just prob put my stuff not listed there on those pages. Kinda too lazy to full out do it anyways,
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 8,244
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Hair and The Edge Of Glory on Howard Stern 
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