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News: GrExit: "Greece in Auschwitz"
Member Since: 8/27/2012
Posts: 3,597
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 25,037
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Quote:
Originally posted by LuLuDrops
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Inbe4 the Greeks and Cypriots on atrl run to defend him
A joke really
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 2,096
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Quote:
Originally posted by SylMacPer
Yes there's definately a difference, but in both cases we talk about people and in both cases people must show respect! People on ATRL just can't overreact or go crazy in other, inferior issues, but in this case making fun of cheap holidays in Greece or laughing about a situation that stroke already poor and unemployed greeks.
And this... " Greece digging its own grave, laying in it, and then slitting its own throat" is your opinion! It's been years that Greece had problems and suffered a lot. And when people voted "No", they wanted to be free even if there were casualties. So don't believe whatever they want you to believe!
And you know what, no one forced Greece into the massive debt, but no one of the people who are suffering in Greece right now got any money from anywhere and they are now asked to pay, and pay, and pay. They don't have enough money to live, but they have to pay for a debt they are not responsible for.
When you speak about people who are suffering or face such problems you must show some respect and NOT mock them.
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I will mock them and I will mock the people in my own country when the same thing happens here because we keep electing people that can't control spending.
It's not like we are unaware of the out of control spending or the effects of it. Conservatives have been warning people for over a decade now and people don't seem to care. It's not just the Liberals insane spending it's also partly on the Republicans as well.
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Member Since: 3/14/2013
Posts: 1,297
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Quote:
Originally posted by SylMacPer
Yes there's definately a difference, but in both cases we talk about people and in both cases people must show respect! People on ATRL just can't overreact or go crazy in other, inferior issues, but in this case making fun of cheap holidays in Greece or laughing about a situation that stroke already poor and unemployed greeks.
And this... " Greece digging its own grave, laying in it, and then slitting its own throat" is your opinion! It's been years that Greece had problems and suffered a lot. And when people voted "No", they wanted to be free even if there were casualties. So don't believe whatever they want you to believe!
And you know what, no one forced Greece into the massive debt, but no one of the people who are suffering in Greece right now got any money from anywhere and they are now asked to pay, and pay, and pay. They don't have enough money to live, but they have to pay for a debt they are not responsible for.
When you speak about people who are suffering or face such problems you must show some respect and NOT mock them.
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Drag them baby!
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Listening to Tsipras talking to the EP right now. He's a smart man.
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Member Since: 2/28/2012
Posts: 11,072
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^Some are going IN.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by Komet blu
^Some are going IN.
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I couldn't sit there and listen to that ****. They're scolding him like he's a child.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by SylMacPer
Yes there's definately a difference, but in both cases we talk about people and in both cases people must show respect! People on ATRL just can't overreact or go crazy in other, inferior issues, but in this case making fun of cheap holidays in Greece or laughing about a situation that stroke already poor and unemployed greeks.
And this... " Greece digging its own grave, laying in it, and then slitting its own throat" is your opinion! It's been years that Greece had problems and suffered a lot. And when people voted "No", they wanted to be free even if there were casualties. So don't believe whatever they want you to believe!
And you know what, no one forced Greece into the massive debt, but no one of the people who are suffering in Greece right now got any money from anywhere and they are now asked to pay, and pay, and pay. They don't have enough money to live, but they have to pay for a debt they are not responsible for.
When you speak about people who are suffering or face such problems you must show some respect and NOT mock them.
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People are so callous and rude.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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People forget that originally PRIVATE banks had loaned Greece all these billions of euros and that European Countries CHOSE to take over the debt from these banks. The Greece loans in the US are still in the hands of private entities. The European Countries were the ones to take over Greece's debt. They want to talk about Greece owning the EU taxpayer, but the EU countries were the one to make it so.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 7,352
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Not you blaming our government when you damn well know they only did that because otherwise the banks would collaps because Greece couldn't pay them back in time.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by *Tim
Not you blaming our government when you damn well know they only did that because otherwise the banks would collapse because Greece couldn't pay them back in time.
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Why did the banks loan Greece the money then? They were not obligated to. So the EU governments, in my opinion, cannot say that Greece did the EU taxpayers wrong when the EU governments themselves, again jumped in to save their banks. Their move made it so that EU taxpayers now carry Greece's debt.
(This is not something just related to Greece. The Netherlands, for example , has a history of banks acting irresponsibly and loaning people money to buy homes knowing very well they wouldn't be able to repay them. If I'm not mistaken that has led to a Code of Conduct for Banks being introduced in the Netherlands, right? And the government having to bail them out?)
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,793
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Not sure why the Greeks are acting as if anyone but themselves are to blame for this mess. For decades, they kept electing clowns who are too crooked or incompetent to run a country. Instead of blaming themselves and their politicians they instead start insulting those who have been the only ones that have prevented their country from going bankrupt years ago.
I am not optimistic they can find a resolution. The clowns running Greece are still more interested in posturing and demagoguery than actually finding an economic solution. Meanwhile the Greek banks are on the verge of running out of cash while the Greek 'leaders' are wasting time.
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Member Since: 11/27/2010
Posts: 9,806
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Quote:
Originally posted by revel8
Not sure why the Greeks are acting as if anyone but themselves are to blame for this mess. For decades, they kept electing clowns who are too crooked or incompetent to run a country. Instead of blaming themselves and their politicians they instead start insulting those who have been the only ones that have prevented their country from going bankrupt years ago.
I am not optimistic they can find a resolution. The clowns running Greece are still more interested in posturing and demagoguery than actually finding an economic solution. Meanwhile the Greek banks are on the verge of running out of cash while the Greek 'leaders' are wasting time.
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It's hard to run a government when you don't control monetary and fiscal policy. The EU is a failed experiment. You need different currencies for different governments unless EU countries are going to become one big country. If Greece had its own currency they could print some money to pay debt holders which would lower the amount the debt holders would get because of the inflation it would cause.... so it's not a cure all. The other problem Greece has is they need to start collecting taxes to pay the bills. People get angry that they have to pay taxes but taxes help to avoid Greece like situations.
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Banned
Member Since: 9/12/2011
Posts: 9,897
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Quote:
Originally posted by LuLuDrops
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Bold move
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Banned
Member Since: 9/12/2011
Posts: 9,897
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
Why did the banks loan Greece the money then? They were not obligated to. So the EU governments, in my opinion, cannot say that Greece did the EU taxpayers wrong when the EU governments themselves, again jumped in to save their banks. Their move made it so that EU taxpayers now carry Greece's debt.
(This is not something just related to Greece. The Netherlands, for example , has a history of banks acting irresponsibly and loaning people money to buy homes knowing very well they wouldn't be able to repay them. If I'm not mistaken that has led to a Code of Conduct for Banks being introduced in the Netherlands, right? And the government having to bail them out?)
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This is such a stupid way of thinking, actually nay, selfish and perverted. Instead of blaming Greece for not being able to compensate for what they owe you're blaming everyone else for helping them.
Let's say:
You have a friend, you're almost like a family* and they're going through a rough time and they ask you to lend them some money and convince you they'll be able to pay you back. You lend them the money but after countless years they fail to pay you back and when you confront them, instead of apologizing and admitting their own fault they start blaming you for lending them. That's ****ed up. Please either admit your government ****ed it all up or just shut up.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adonis
It's hard to run a government when you don't control monetary and fiscal policy. The EU is a failed experiment. You need different currencies for different governments unless EU countries are going to become one big country. If Greece had its own currency they could print some money to pay debt holders which would lower the amount the debt holders would get because of the inflation it would cause.... so it's not a cure all. The other problem Greece has is they need to start collecting taxes to pay the bills. People get angry that they have to pay taxes but taxes help to avoid Greece like situations.
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Exactly! Especially when the ECB is more likely to adapt the interest rate in way that benefits Germany and the Benelux countries instead of Portugal, Spain, Italy etc.
The economies of the Eurozone/EU Countries are too different. One monetary/fiscal policy does not fit all.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
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Quote:
Originally posted by Opacho
This is such a stupid way of thinking, actually nay, selfish and perverted. Instead of blaming Greece for not being able to compensate for what they owe you're blaming everyone else for helping them.
Let's say:
You have a friend, you're almost like a family* and they're going through a rough time and they ask you to lend them some money and convince you they'll be able to pay you back. You lend them the money but after countless years they fail to pay you back and when you confront them, instead of apologizing and admitting their own fault they start blaming you for lending them. That's ****ed up. Please either admit your government ****ed it all up or just shut up.
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Can you try to keep it respectful? You can disagree all you want with what I'm saying but calling me stupid is crossing the line.
No need for the family example. Let's keep it with banks. When you go to a bank and ask them to extend you a loan, they'll ask for a credit history before lending the money. When banks loan you the money they charge you interest because of the risk that you might not be able to pay them back. Ultimately the risk lies with the banks. If you're not able to pay back the bank, it loses money. Banks know that; it's the reason they charge interest! That's the way it works.
My point was; the banks loaned Greece the money. Greece probably figured it would be able to pay them back but their economy did not get back ontrack as fast as the US did. Or the other EU countries. (And they obviously did not use the money wisely).
The EU took over the debt and now, Greece owes EU taxpayers. But Greece did not lend the money direcly from EU taxpayers. SO to tell Greece: YOU TOOK MONEY FROM TAXPAYERS!! Is not 100% correct. Greece took money from banks. The EU took over the debt, so now the taxpayers suffer.
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And I'm not from Greece.
And telling me to shut up? Seriously? Learn some manners. How do you ever expect to debate anything with anyone with such a ****ed up attitude? It's a shame.
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Banned
Member Since: 9/12/2011
Posts: 9,897
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
Can you try to keep it respectful? You can disagree all you want with what I'm saying but calling me stupid is crossing the line.
No need for the family example. Let's keep it with banks. When you go to a bank and ask them to extend you a loan, they'll ask for a credit history before lending the money. When banks loan you the money they charge you interest because of the risk that you might not be able to pay them back. Ultimately the risk lies with the banks. If you're not able to pay back the bank, it loses money. Banks know that; it's the reason they charge interest! That's the way it works.
My point was; the banks loaned Greece the money. Greece probably figured it would be able to pay them back but their economy did not get back ontrack as fast as the US did. Or the other EU countries. (And they obviously did not use the money wisely).
The EU took over the debt and now, Greece owes EU taxpayers. But Greece did not lend the money direcly from EU taxpayers. SO to tell Greece: YOU TOOK MONEY FROM TAXPAYERS!! Is not 100% correct. Greece took money from banks. The EU took over the debt, so now the taxpayers suffer.
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And I'm not from Greece.
And telling me to shut up? Seriously? Learn some manners. How do you ever expect to debate anything with anyone with such a ****ed up attitude? It's a shame.
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Yes I told you to shut up because you're ultimately blaming everyone else but the culprit for whatever reason. I'm not one of those who wants to see Greeks fail but I'm certainly not going to stand here and listen how it's everyone else's fault either. And that's what your whole argument is based around. My argument was never that they 'TOOK MONEY FROM TAXPAYERS' but that their own actions led them to where they are now. And now they'll have to face consequences. Banks will no longer receive support and they can flail about all they want and it's just! I feel sorry for the people of Greece but not their leaders.
And FYI I didn't come here to debate (nor did I call you stupid but your views and approach) but to voice my own opinion. This is not a political forum, there's no way of approaching a situation like this. I don't have to be respectful toward anyone whose views are skewered by whatever reasons, cause you're clearly not seeing straight. But then again we are on ATRL and straight is a rare sight in these woods.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 4,980
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nialler
Is this a joke? How is Europe supposed to take them seriously?
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Wasn't your country's debt written off by 60% back to 1991?
And this information is FAKE, It's time to stop believing what the anti-Greek tabloids have to say about these matters.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,793
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adonis
It's hard to run a government when you don't control monetary and fiscal policy. The EU is a failed experiment. You need different currencies for different governments unless EU countries are going to become one big country. If Greece had its own currency they could print some money to pay debt holders which would lower the amount the debt holders would get because of the inflation it would cause.... so it's not a cure all. The other problem Greece has is they need to start collecting taxes to pay the bills. People get angry that they have to pay taxes but taxes help to avoid Greece like situations.
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I am not saying it is easy. In fact the situation requires some very hard decisions to be made. Greek politicians are avoiding making the tough decisions because they would be unpopular ones. You say that tax avoidance is a problem in Greece. Yes, and this has been known for decades. Why has this not been tightened up? Why throw a referendum when your banks are already shut? Why not take steps before you default on repayments due? Why label as terrorists the exact people who you will need to go before begging for more money to keep the lights on? What sort of stupidity is that? Greece needs these negotiations to succeed, why deliberately alienate those who you need to help you out? When given a list of tax dodgers why not prosecute them, reclaim some money and send a message about tax avoidance? Why do nothing to chase these tax dodgers?
The main issue now, is not that the Greeks borrowed money, but that they need to borrow more money imminently or their country will go bankrupt overnight. Why are all these summits happening now when the Greeks have run out of money? The Greek Government should have sorted this out months ago instead of faffing around. It is the incompetence/criminal behaviour of the current Greek leadership that has resulted in this crisis where the average Greek doesn't have money to buy more than just food cos the banks are shut. The Greek Government were well aware months ago that they were going to have a shortfall of cash and likely to default on repayments. It is not a sudden black hole in spending that has appeared.
Now that the Greeks have defaulted to the IMF it will obviously be more expensive for them to take out further loans, as they have proven themselves to be unreliable debtors. Mismanagement of the highest order. And the Greeks voted for these clowns.
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