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Discussion: Affirmative Action
Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by sychung4650
Imagine it for Asians ![ahh](images/smilies/images/smilies/ahh.gif)
I've read that Asians need 400 points higher on the SAT to be equivalent to a black person ![rip](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRLSmilies/rip_zpsec10ede9.gif)
So I guess that means if an Asian gets 2200, it is equivalent to an 1800 for blacks
But I don't know if it's true
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I knew you would post something like this.
A few members here like to use Affirmative Action threads to showcase the so called "unfairness" towards Asians in Admissions selections.
There's no shortage of Asians at UCLA, Berkeley, or Cal Poly, in fact they often make up more than 30% of the student body, which blacks make up less than 1%. This problem is what Affirmative action seeks to resolve, so its really silly to take this "Im Asian so I need to have a higher SAT scored to weighed higher than a black applicant" point of view.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,143
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Quote:
Originally posted by sychung4650
I'm sure there are implicit quotas, whether they say they exist or not.
If, based just on merit, whites and Asians made up 90% of the student body, many groups would probably attack universities for racism.
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As for the racism, well, I think you're using a word too strong. I like "unfair" better. Let's go with the colleges having 90% whites and Asians thing. And why would whites and Asians make up such a high percentage? Perhaps because those groups generally have more access to college-preparatory courses, better school systems, and higher family income? To those groups without those opportunities, it can be considered unfair that they are judged on the same field as people who have had numerous additional advantages in life.
Similarly, you think it's unfair to use race as a factor because you can't help it. Both sides can be seen as unfair, but one side will end with increased diversity, opportunity, and representation for otherwise marginalized groups. That's the side I personally choose.
Quote:
Originally posted by Saint
I know they were ruled unconstitutional, however, multiple reps from different schools have said time and time again that they still do the quota system. It's just not spoken of.
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Maybe off the record, but I can't imagine a school representative ever admitting to something like that. And I think you're both giving colleges too much credit as "secret societies" of sorts.
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Member Since: 9/4/2011
Posts: 29,960
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If it hurts whites then it's WRONG.
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Member Since: 6/12/2011
Posts: 3,237
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maiko
I knew you would post something like this.
A few members here like to use Affirmative Action threads to showcase the so called "unfairness" towards Asians in Admissions selections.
There's no shortage of Asians at UCLA, Berkeley, or Cal Poly, in fact they often make up more than 30% of the student body, which blacks make up less than 1%. This problem is what Affirmative action seeks to resolve, so its really silly to take this "Im Asian so I need to have a higher SAT scored to weighed higher than a black applicant" point of view.
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It's also unfair towards whites.
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Member Since: 8/24/2008
Posts: 35,091
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 18,655
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Quote:
Originally posted by Citrus
Maybe off the record, but I can't imagine a school representative ever admitting to something like that. And I think you're both giving colleges too much credit as "secret societies" of sorts.
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Lol no.
I wish I could find the article but there was an admissions officer from like Harvard who talked about it but that was about 3 or 4 years ago.
And I'm not making them seem like a secret society but quotas are very much still in place. You'd have to be naive to think they aren't.
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Member Since: 10/13/2010
Posts: 696
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In many rural places in the US, black people still aren't really welcome, much less able to find employment. You don't see it, but the prejudice still exists. It makes it hard to live comfortably, and to survive in general. That said, yes it's a double standard. But the prejudice makes it justified. It's too much in some places. It needs to be enforced where it's really needed.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Saint
Lol no.
I wish I could find the article but there was an admissions officer from like Harvard who talked about it but that was about 3 or 4 years ago.
And I'm not making them seem like a secret society but quotas are very much still in place. You'd have to be naive to think they aren't.
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Is this the article you're referring to?
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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This country spent over 300 years preventing blacks from having access to education, among many other things (like accumulating wealth), helping them and other marginalized racial groups access it now is the least that they can do.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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It's hypocritical when people are okay with schools using every other metric for admissions (Legacy, Income, Location), but not Race.
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Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6,765
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They don't admit unqualified minorities just to fill a quota. That would be dumb if they do because they are more likely to drop out ![skull](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/faces/skull_zpsksni5fmm.gif)
When choosing between two applicants that are qualified they are more likely to choose the minority than the white kid who is privileged enough to get somewhere else.
Also affirmative action benefits white women more than anyone and minorities that are better off. I agree that eventually I would like affirmative action to be based on financial circumstances rather than race because with that I think you will still get diversity because most Hispanic and black people are working class
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maiko
Well this country spent over 300 years preventing blacks from having access to education, among many other things, helping them and other marginalized racial groups access it now is the least that they can do.
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What makes a poor minority student more deserving of an education than a poor white student?
Why not provide aid based on NEED? That would help to many of the same students, but without race as a factor.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
What makes a poor minority student more deserving of an education than a poor white student? ![huh?](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/7be5c36a.gif)
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What? Who implied that? ![huh?](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/7be5c36a.gif)
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 18,655
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Quote:
Originally posted by Citrus
Is this the article you're referring to?
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Nope.
It was an article from around 2011 with direct quotes from an admissions officer.
Either way, some people may see it as unfair but in reality like I said, it works both ways. It just depends on the school and their demographics.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
What makes a poor minority student more deserving of an education than a poor white student?
Why not provide aid based on NEED? That would help to many of the same students, but without race as a factor.
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I don't believe the conversation is about financial aid, Waffles. For the most part, the discussion has centered around admissions/hiring.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
What makes a poor minority student more deserving of an education than a poor white student? ![huh?](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/7be5c36a.gif)
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I don't know where this came from.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
What? Who implied that? ![huh?](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/7be5c36a.gif)
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Ummm. Do you understand what affirmative action is?
Most colleges use a point system using many factors to determine admissions and financial aid. These include income, GPA, test scores, etc.... PLUS race.
So if two students walked in to one open slot at a college with the SAME income, the SAME GPA the SAME test scores, etc, the minority student would be one to get the spot.
You may like to ignore this fact, but it is the way it is. It is the reality of taking race into consideration during admissions.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
Ummm. Do you understand what affirmative action is?
Most colleges use a point system using many factors to determine admissions and financial aid. These include income, GPA, test scores, etc.... PLUS race.
So if two students walked in to one open slot at a college with the SAME income, the SAME GPA the SAME test scores, etc, the minority student would be one to get the spot.
You may like to ignore this fact, but it is the way it is.
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Still,that doesn't mean they were "more deserving" that just means they offered an incentive for the school that the other student didn't. It happens all the time on various metrics in education and the workplace.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waffles O'Brien
Ummm. Do you understand what affirmative action is?
Most colleges use a point system using many factors to determine admissions and financial aid. These include income, GPA, test scores, etc.... PLUS race.
So if two students walked in to one open slot at a college with the SAME income, the SAME GPA the SAME test scores, etc, the minority student would be one to get the spot.
You may like to ignore this fact, but it is the way it is. It is the reality of taking race into consideration during admissions.
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I'm pretty sure every one in the discussion knows this.
No one is saying that someone is less deserving of an education, but those that support using race as a factor feel that it is a necessary mechanism to diversify the student body.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Still,that doesn't mean they were "more deserving" that just means they offered an incentive for the school that the other student didn't. It happens all the time on various metrics in education and the workplace.
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As I said earlier. I believe in the goal of a colorblind society.
No matter how good your intentions are, I believe that using race as a factor in ANY decision is detrimental society.
As I mentioned before. There is nothing that affirmative action does that could not be done better by offering assistance mainly on financial need since the same minority groups also have much larger poverty rates.
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