How hard is it to see, for example, that a song like: Baby One More Time would perform WAYY better if only the lyrics are changed. If the melody/harmonies/arrangements/composition are changed it would be an entirely different SONG!!!(It would likely flop)
Diane Warren HAS worked with her and my point was that Diane and Linda have discussed their opinion on songwriting and said if you don't contribute lyrics you should not get a songwriting credit and no, changing a word does not count.
Why do you think the song (I Am Here) that Diane Warren wrote on 4 is the ONLY song that isn't co-written by Beyoncé and the only song where she doesn't get any songwriting credit? Because Diane Warren doesn't play that sh-t about taking credit for things you didn't contribute to and everyone involved knew better than to try.
Anyway, this is a discussion for another thread. I don't want to hijack this one because I think Beyoncé is a good artist regardless (even if I don't agree with her taking credit for certain things and I don't believe she writes anything, sorry).
Quote:
How hard is it to see, for example, that a song like: Baby One More Time would perform WAYY better if only the lyrics are changed. If the melody/harmonies/arrangements/composition are changed it would be an entirely different SONG!!!(It would likely flop)
Composing>>>>Lyrics
Changing a melody or harmony IS NOT SONGWRITING. If I changed the melody, harmony and vocal arrangement to Stevie Wonder's Overjoyed right now that DOES NOT MEAN that I wrote the song.
Diane Warren HAS worked with her and my point was that Diane and Linda have discussed their opinion on songwriting and said if you don't contribute lyrics you should not get a songwriting credit and no, changing a word does not count.
Why do you think the song (I Am Here) that Diane Warren wrote on 4 is the ONLY song that isn't co-written by Beyoncé and the only song where she doesn't get any songwriting credit? Because Diane Warren doesn't play that sh-t about taking credit for things you didn't contribute to and everyone involved knew better than to try.
Anyway, this is a discussion for another thread. I don't want to hijack this one because I think Beyoncé is a good artist regardless (even if I don't agree with her taking credit for certain things and I don't believe she writes anything, sorry).
She gave her the song!! It was perfect the way it was, there was no need for new compositions.
Tired of this. This argument can't progress because someone refuses to ignore an easy fact.
Lemme just say this:
Compose a good ORIGINAL song right now, on the spot, no lyrics.
Let Bey explain:
2:31 "I can't play any instruments" Then how does she write music?
So basically, she just confirms she hires people to write and produce for her and throughout the whole video is implicit she takes credits for those by... arranging... which is very different from songwriting and producing, as stated at the beginning.
No. Aside from being a singer, she does nothing on her albums. I'm probably going to be warned for saying this, but how can we believe any Beyoncé writing, producing or w/e credits when it has been proven that she's bought them in the past? Like I said, she's a great vocalist, even though she lip syncs a lot, and Hive should be happy enough with that.
What proof is there that Beyonce has bought writing credits?
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I swear to God y'all just be pulling **** out of your asses.
The only instance I can think of where she was even taken to court over something like this is when she covered Des'ree's "Kissing You," and the judge was basically like "Whatever, girl..."
The problem is that a lot of you all are ignorant and think "songwriting," is limited to physically writing lyrics with a pen and paper. It's not. Beyonce rarely writes her own lyrics, but she is still heavily involved in the process of arranging her songs. In fact, many people who study music and/or voice have praised her for her idiosyncratic vocal arrangements.
The American Federation of Musicians defines arranging as, "the art of preparing and adapting an already written composition for presentation in other than its original form. An arrangement may include reharmonization, paraphrasing, and/or development of a composition, so that it fully represents the melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic structure."
"Arranging Music for the Real World: Classical and Commercial Aspects," Vince Corozine, 2002, p. 3
Do you know what that means? That means when Beyonce takes a song already written by someone and changes it by adding in harmonies or adlibs or even changing one word of the chorus, she gets credited as a songwriter, which makes perfect sense considering her contributions have a clear, audibly observable effect on the way the listener hears the song.
People like to undermine her musicality just because she doesn't play the xylophone or the didgeridoo. That's not a legitimate way to judge a musician's artistic merit. The recording industry was founded on singers who recorded songs that were already written by people like Johnny Mercer, Ira Gershwin and Irving Berlin, without playing every single instrument heard in the song or even arranging the orchestra. It's certainly exceptional and worthy of praise if someone is able to play multiple instruments and writes their own songs, but that in itself is not the deciding factor in whether or not they are a good artist, nor does it take any credit away from people who only use their voice as an instrument, and that's what Beyonce does.
She literally uses her voice as a musical instrument.
Similar to the way Ella Fitzgerald did. She was notorious for scatting and improvising, but what many people don't understand is that what she was doing was using her voice to imitate the way a horn produces notes.
For instance, listen to the beginning of these two videos.
In the first one, you can hear a horn starting it off.
In the second, you can hear Ella using her voice as a horn (also at 1:12).
Beyonce has this same kind of natural musicality.
I'm not a very musically educated person myself, but this kind of thing has always been very interesting to me,
and it's what draws me to artists like Beyonce and Ella.
Don't try to minimize her artistry just because she doesn't write melodramatic lyrics with the same basic guitar chords on every song, and stop subscribing to the idea that musical excellence is reserved for people who write their own lyrics and music. That point of view is so ignorant and antiquated. Anyone who actually has a love for music would know better.
People think she's stupid because she sexy. She is a brilliantly gifted musician.
It's literally this.
I was having a conversation with someone just the other day about how image and brand identity have a lot to do with the way people perceive musicians and judge their craft. It shouldn't.
People assume that Beyonce is musically ignorant just because she prances around in short skirts and wears makeup, as if that actually has anything to do with her music.
Adele is an amateur vocalist with mediocre songs, but if you were to ask someone who was the better signer or had the better music, a lot of people would be inclined to say Adele because of that subconscious bias where the way an artist presents themselves affects the way the art is perceived.
Changing a melody or harmony IS NOT SONGWRITING. If I changed the melody, harmony and vocal arrangement to Stevie Wonder's Overjoyed right now that DOES NOT MEAN that I wrote the song.
No, but it would mean that you re-arranged it and it would grant you a songwriting credit.
No, but it would mean that you re-arranged it and it would grant you a songwriting credit.
It's not rocket science.
So basically you're confirming this is how Beyoncé finds her way to her albums writing/producing credits? So answering again the OP: no, Beyoncé is not musically underrated.
So basically you're confirming this is how Beyoncé finds her way to her albums writing/producing credits? So answering again the OP: no, Beyoncé is not musically underrated.
So basically you're confirming this is how Beyoncé finds her way to her albums writing/producing credits? So answering again the OP: no, Beyoncé is not musically underrated.
At this point you're just being willfully ignorant and trolling to get a rise out of people.
Are your reading comprehension skills in tact at all?
When you denounced Beyonce as a thief who uses bribery to get songwriting credits, several members and myself gave you physical evidence that the art of songwriting is not limited to simply writing lyrics or composing music. This is not something that's stupid or invalid.
If a person makes a clear contribution to the way a song is heard by a listener, then they should be credited for their contribution. This is done through songwriting credits.
