[devotedtokesha]

Originally posted by Energy

Well he didn't lie? Why be in the profession of entertaining if you can't sing OR dance? Britney really is just robbing her fans to be honest.

!

[TheAmerican]

Before anybody gets mad at me just know I say this with sincere curiosity: why does Britney Spears still have fans? What do you get from her that you don't get from every other pop star? You don't get live singing or studio music that isn't heavily edited to the point where E.T. would cringe and you get no dancing these days or promo or any proof that Britney Spears cares about her career.

What keeps you coming back to her? Is your memory of her place in time 14 years ago so strong that you're confident that she will one day return to that? Is it strictly out of habit? Is there any proof that Britney can still sing or sound good without studio trickery?

I've read that her Vegas residency is doing very well and as much as I don't begrudge her of any success I have to scratch my as to why it's that successful. What's alluding me and people like me? What secret are we not in on? I'm a fan of many pop stars and questionable musicians but no "hater" has ever questioned why I supported them.

[One Nation]

He didn't have to drop names like that though.

[TheAmerican]

Originally posted by One Nation

He didn't have to drop names like that though.

He only named one but even if he didn't it wouldn't have been difficult to guess.

[as926]

Originally posted by TheAmerican

Before anybody gets mad at me just know I say this with sincere curiosity: why does Britney Spears still have fans? What do you get from her that you don't get from every other pop star? You don't get live singing or studio music that isn't heavily edited to the point where E.T. would cringe and you get no dancing these days or promo or any proof that Britney Spears cares about her career.

What keeps you coming back to her? Is your memory of her place in time 14 years ago so strong that you're confident that she will one day return to that? Is it strictly out of habit? Is there any proof that Britney can still sing or sound good without studio trickery?

I've read that her Vegas residency is doing very well and as much as I don't begrudge her of any success I have to scratch my as to why it's that successful. What's alluding me and people like me? What secret are we not in on? I'm a fan of many pop stars and questionable musicians but no "hater" has ever questioned why I supported them.

As a long time fan, I think that most of us just appreciate her for her legacy, relatively consistent musical catalogue and know what she is capable of. As she has always been a bit of an enigma of a pop star, she remains one of the most intriguing figures in music of this generation. While I adore artists like Katy, she and her contemporaries have never really captivated me as much as Britney has and I just don't care to know as much about them as I always have about Britney. At the end of the day though, you are basically reducing her legacy to catchy songs and a pretty face, and she has always been much more than that. Her catalogue over the years has always been sonically interesting as far as the pop scope goes and at heart she has it in her to be an outstanding performer, which seems to be coming back with this show. She is a 15 year story at this point in pop music that has seen many highs and many lows very publicly, but at the end of the day the fact that she still has fans like this is a testament to her ability to keep people intrigued. And it doesn't hurt that she can still deliver great pop songs. People like to root for her because in reality she is just a likable Southern girl who has been through and come out of a lot. The fact that she can still carry a successful residency is outstanding. I will say though, no one is a fan of Britney because they think she is the vocalist of a generation. It's about the package and the story at this point and if you are a fan of pop music and were not around when she was first coming up or weren't along for the ride, then no, it's not surprising that you don't "get" it I suppose.

In general though, people are fans of any artist because they connect with them on some sort of level, be it musically, image-wise, story-wise and so on. Clearly, you are just not one of those people who connects with her at all and this really just come down to a matter of personal taste, plain and simple. Lady Gaga, Rihanna and Christina all irk me in some ways, but I get that people like them, even though I don't always "get" why.

[Drais.]

[TheAmerican]

Originally posted by brandnewdrew

As a long time fan, I think that most of us just appreciate her for her legacy, relatively consistent musical catalogue and know what she is capable of. As she has always been a bit of an enigma of a pop star, she remains one of the most intriguing figures in music of this generation. While I adore artists like Katy, she and her contemporaries have never really captivated me as much as Britney has and I just don't care to know as much about them as I always have about Britney. At the end of the day though, you are basically reducing her legacy to catchy songs and a pretty face, and she has always been much more than that. Her catalogue over the years has always been sonically interesting as far as the pop scope goes and at heart she has it in her to be an outstanding performer, which seems to be coming back with this show. She is a 15 year story at this point in pop music that has seen many highs and many lows very publicly, but at the end of the day the fact that she still has fans like this is a testament to her ability to keep people intrigued. And it doesn't hurt that she can still deliver great pop songs. People like to root for her because in reality she is just a likable Southern girl who has been through and come out of a lot. The fact that she can still carry a successful residency is outstanding.

In general though, people are fans of any artist because they connect with them on some sort of level, be it musically, image-wise, story-wise and so on. Clearly, you are just not one of those people who connects with her at all and this really just come down to a matter of personal taste, plain and simple. Lady Gaga, Rihanna and Christina all irk me in some ways, but I get that people like them, even though I don't always "get" why.

I was already warned for "flame baiting" (never heard of the term before) so before I say something else that will offend super sensitive members or administrators (no offense) I'll have to make sure this is rated G. What legacy did she leave behind? She never truly did her job as a singer. Elton is right, why go to see her to hear the album voice? I'll admit she used to be a good dancer and I can see why she had so many defenders back then but it makes no sense to see her now. I guess my only defense is "it's not my money" nor is it my intelligence being insulted. All for a legacy that lasted for about 5 years? So it is about habit? And what's so intriguing? Whether she has talent or not? Is there any proof that she can still sing? See, for me to support someone I need reassurance that the person is worth ponying up for, you know what I mean? And you think she makes good pop music today? To each his own but I don't see Britney doing anything that some girl plucked from a mall can't with the right amount of practice. Being likeable is fine but if you just like someone because they're nice than you might as well just hand money to anyone who smiles at you.

What's there to connect with when it comes to Britney though? We've all had sex. Christina, Rihanna and Lady Gaga sing though and don't waste their fan's time in my opinion so I can more than see why their fans "get" it even Rihanna whom I don't care for can't be denied when putting on a show. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Thank you for your well mannered response though.

[as926]

Originally posted by TheAmerican

I was already warned for "flame baiting" (never heard of the term before) so before I say something else that will offend super sensitive members or administrators (no offense) I'll have to make sure this is rated G. What legacy did she leave behind? She never truly did her job as a singer. Elton is right, why go to see her to hear the album voice? I'll admit she used to be a good dancer and I can see why she had so many defenders back then but it makes no sense to see her now. I guess my only defense is "it's not my money" nor is it my intelligence being insulted. All for a legacy that lasted for about 5 years? So it is about habit? And what's so intriguing? Whether she has talent or not? Is there any proof that she can still sing? See, for me to support someone I need reassurance that the person is worth ponying up for, you know what I mean? And you think she makes good pop music today? To each his own but I don't see Britney doing anything that some girl plucked from a mall can't with the right amount of practice. Being likeable is fine but if you just like someone because they're nice than you might as well just hand money to anyone who smiles at you.

What's there to connect with when it comes to Britney though? We've all had sex. Christina, Rihanna and Lady Gaga sing though and don't waste their fan's time in my opinion so I can more than see why their fans "get" it even Rihanna whom I don't care for can't be denied when putting on a show. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Thank you for your well mannered response though.

Again, it's clearly a matter of personal preference and I just answered your questions from the perspective of someone who likes her, likes her voice, likes her music and likes watching her perform. I do think she is talented, independent of her celebrity. I do think her emotional rollercoaster of a career and the effects these things have had on her in a very public way (both negatively and positively) are relatable. But again, that's my opinion. When it comes to having a discussion like this and seeing responses like yours, it's clear that there are not going to be answers that satisfy your questions, because it seems that your mind is made up and you are just expressing opinions of distaste behind the guise of serious inquiries. You aren't really looking for a discussion or answers -- you are just stating that you are not a fan and don't understand why anyone would be. To which I respond, once again, that it's a matter of preference and taste. You say Rihanna can sing, which is something that is extremely arguable here. So really the same things you are saying that detract from why you think Britney deserves fans could be said for a handful of other very popular artists. That's the thing about opinions on the arts in general -- they are quite subjective.

BTW, flambaiting means fishing for an argument. You would have been safer by ATRL standards just stating that you agree and don't think she is talented and moved on. But by posing your distaste in "Seriously, what do you see in her?" type of questions, it looks to mods like you are just fishing for someone to get in a back in forth with you and take this off-topic. LOL but anyhow, I've said my peace on this. At the end of the day, I just don't understand why people can't have a live and let live attitude about stuff like this, but such is life on pop music forums.

[TheAmerican]

Originally posted by brandnewdrew

Again, it's clearly a matter of personal preference and I just answered your questions from the perspective of someone who likes her, likes her voice, likes her music and likes watching her perform. I do think she is talented, independent of her celebrity. I do think her emotional rollercoaster of a career and the effects these things have had on her in a very public way (both negatively and positively) are relatable. But again, that's my opinion. When it comes to having a discussion like this and seeing responses like yours, it's clear that there are not going to be answers that satisfy your questions, because it seems that your mind is made up and you are just expressing opinions of distaste behind the guise of serious inquiries. You aren't really looking for a discussion or answers -- you are just stating that you are not a fan and don't understand why anyone would be. To which I respond, once again, that it's a matter of preference and taste. You say Rihanna can sing, which is something that is extremely arguable here. So really the same things you are saying that detract from why you think Britney deserves fans could be said for a handful of other very popular artists. That's the thing about opinions on the arts in general -- they are quite subjective.

BTW, flambaiting means fishing for an argument. You would have been safer by ATRL standards just stating that you agree and don't think she is talented and moved on. But by posing your distaste in "Seriously, what do you see in her?" type of questions, it looks to mods like you are just fishing for someone to get in a back in forth with you and take this off-topic. LOL but anyhow, I've said my peace on this. At the end of the day, I just don't understand why people can't have a live and let live attitude about stuff like this, but such is life on pop music forums.

You really haven't answered my question though, what proof do you have of her talent? I'm just looking for genuine answers. What proof do you have that she's talented? Does her voice match what's on her CDs? That's something I was always curious about especially in the 2010s because it's all auto-tune and studio tricks. I'm honestly not trying to be difficult I'm trying to understand the fascination when it comes to Britney because I honestly don't see anything remarkable if I understood why she had fans I could reconcile it and accept it but so far I don't see anything other than someone who used to care and nostalgia keeping fans coming back for more and that troubles me. Doing things out of habit isn't healthy. My mind isn't made up but you're not helping by leveling accusations I'm being honest and as sincere as I can possibly be. If I just wanted to hate I'd say something incendiary and leave. Actually I never said Rihanna could sing I said she sings live and she does. Are you that defensive of your idol that you can't read a sentence properly? Sorry for that cheap shot but I'm being unfairly maligned all for asking questions so I should be able to level one back.

I'm not fishing for an argument I'm fishing for answers. Yeah but just stating that I think she's untalented wouldn't accomplish what I set out to do which is find out why she has fans. That would be a pretty useless comment. I have a live and let live attitude I'm just trying to figure out why her fans are flocking to Vegas and spending close to 3-4k during a recession to see a singer not sing or barely dance. You have to admit if it were anyone else you'd probably be just as intrigued. For someone who does the least her fans act like she has healing powers.

[as926]

Originally posted by TheAmerican

You really haven't answered my question though, what proof do you have of her talent? I'm just looking for genuine answers. What proof do you have that she's talented? Does her voice match what's on her CDs? That's something I was always curious about especially in the 2010s because it's all auto-tune and studio tricks. I'm honestly not trying to be difficult I'm trying to understand the fascination when it comes to Britney because I honestly don't see anything remarkable if I understood why she had fans I could reconcile it and accept it but so far I don't see anything other than someone who used to care and nostalgia keeping fans coming back for more and that troubles me. Doing things out of habit isn't healthy. My mind isn't made up but you're not helping by leveling accusations I'm being honest and as sincere as I can possibly be. If I just wanted to hate I'd say something incendiary and leave. Actually I never said Rihanna could sing I said she sings live and she does. Are you that defensive of your idol that you can't read a sentence properly? Sorry for that cheap shot but I'm being unfairly maligned all for asking questions so I should be able to level one back.

I'm not fishing for an argument I'm fishing for answers. Yeah but just stating that I think she's untalented wouldn't accomplish what I set out to do which is find out why she has fans. That would be a pretty useless comment. I have a live and let live attitude I'm just trying to figure out why her fans are flocking to Vegas and spending close to 3-4k during a recession to see a singer not sing or barely dance. You have to admit if it were anyone else you'd probably be just as intrigued. For someone who does the least her fans act like she has healing powers.

Again, I'm not claiming she has "healing powers", just that I like her. I think she is a nice singer. I think she dances well. Those are talents. I have seen her sing live before and I have seen her dance. People pay a lot to see someone they are a fan of for that reason -- they are fans. I paid $200 ($150 over the initial price of the tickets) to see Ingrid Michaelson live, front and center, because I like her music and wanted a chance to see her in person. For some people, they just want a chance to see her in person. You are getting yourself worked up over something that, in the end, is just based on a subjective opinion that you are not going to share. You would really benefit more from leaving this at the "agree to disagree" stage of discussion. "Proof of talent" is subjective and just because you don't think someone has talent doesn't mean everyone else has to agree.

[TheAmerican]

Originally posted by brandnewdrew

Again, I'm not claiming she has "healing powers", just that I like her. I think she is a nice singer. I think she dances well. Those are talents. I have seen her sing live before and I have seen her dance. People pay a lot to see someone they are a fan of for that reason -- they are fans. I paid $200 ($150 over the initial price of the tickets) to see Ingrid Michaelson live, front and center, because I like her music and wanted a chance to see her in person. For some people, they just want a chance to see her in person. You are getting yourself worked up over something that, in the end, is just based on a subjective opinion that you are not going to share. You would really benefit more from leaving this at the "agree to disagree" stage of discussion. "Proof of talent" is subjective and just because you don't think someone has talent doesn't mean everyone else has to agree.

A singer who doesn't sing live when did you see her sing live, are there youtube videos? People pay a lot to be entertained which she clearly hasn't been able to do since the beginning of the Bush administration. Ingrid Michaelson doesn't rip her fans off though. I'm not worked up I'm just trying to figure this out. I'm not the one getting worked up. I wasn't the one reporting someone's post (not saying you did it). Clearly expecting answers from Britney fans is a mistake because they're too sensitive when their idol is called out. Subjective or not we can all agree that she doesn't sing live, that's a fact, not just my mere opinion. And she can't dance anywhere near the level she was back in the day. I just don't see the point in a Britney Spears show. You're not getting anything good. A drag performer is better. Proof of talent is proof of talent. No other fanbase has to prove that their idols sing live and can sound decent nor do they have to worry that the voice on their idol's CD's don't sound identical or "close" live. I don't see any bragging rights other than album sales when it comes to Britney Spears but quantity doesn't equal quality. Anyway, this was fruitless. I really should've left it at "agree to disagree" because clearly I'm never going to get a mature answer from her fans afterall if they can justify paying to see a singer not sing and take a nap on stage for 2 hours than that should automatically tell me that I'm dealing with people that are not playing with a full deck.

[swissman]

Originally posted by TheAmerican

A singer who doesn't sing live when did you see her sing live, are there youtube videos? People pay a lot to be entertained which she clearly hasn't been able to do since the beginning of the Bush administration. Ingrid Michaelson doesn't rip her fans off though. I'm not worked up I'm just trying to figure this out. I'm not the one getting worked up. I wasn't the one reporting someone's post (not saying you did it). Clearly expecting answers from Britney fans is a mistake because they're too sensitive when their idol is called out. Subjective or not we can all agree that she doesn't sing live, that's a fact, not just my mere opinion. And she can't dance anywhere near the level she was back in the day. I just don't see the point in a Britney Spears show. You're not getting anything good. A drag performer is better. Proof of talent is proof of talent. No other fanbase has to prove that their idols sing live and can sound decent nor do they have to worry that the voice on their idol's CD's don't sound identical or "close" live. I don't see any bragging rights other than album sales when it comes to Britney Spears but quantity doesn't equal quality. Anyway, this was fruitless. I really should've left it at "agree to disagree" because clearly I'm never going to get a mature answer from her fans afterall if they can justify paying to see a singer not sing and take a nap on stage for 2 hours than that should automatically tell me that I'm dealing with people that are not playing with a full deck.

I agree with most of what you're saying, and I know that many of Britney's fans overhype everything she does, however I just wanted to say that brandnewdrew's responses have been very mature and not anything like the overly sensitive Britney fans you've called out.

[as926]

Originally posted by TheAmerican

A singer who doesn't sing live when did you see her sing live, are there youtube videos? People pay a lot to be entertained which she clearly hasn't been able to do since the beginning of the Bush administration. Ingrid Michaelson doesn't rip her fans off though. I'm not worked up I'm just trying to figure this out. I'm not the one getting worked up. I wasn't the one reporting someone's post (not saying you did it). Clearly expecting answers from Britney fans is a mistake because they're too sensitive when their idol is called out. Subjective or not we can all agree that she doesn't sing live, that's a fact, not just my mere opinion. And she can't dance anywhere near the level she was back in the day. I just don't see the point in a Britney Spears show. You're not getting anything good. A drag performer is better. Proof of talent is proof of talent. No other fanbase has to prove that their idols sing live and can sound decent nor do they have to worry that the voice on their idol's CD's don't sound identical or "close" live. I don't see any bragging rights other than album sales when it comes to Britney Spears but quantity doesn't equal quality. Anyway, this was fruitless. I really should've left it at "agree to disagree" because clearly I'm never going to get a mature answer from her fans afterall if they can justify paying to see a singer not sing and take a nap on stage for 2 hours than that should automatically tell me that I'm dealing with people that are not playing with a full deck.

So because I don't agree with you I'm not playing with a full deck? I absolutely gave you a mature response in the form of my personal opinion and the fact that you still disagree with me is not the issue -- it's that you just can't agree to disagree and continue to beat the dead horse, which shows astounding immaturity on your part, so let's not. Your posts are the equivalent to walking into Pizza Hut and going on and on about how you don't understand why people like pizza. Why should anyone have to justify their opinions to you?

[as926]

Originally posted by swissman

I agree with most of what you're saying, and I know that many of Britney's fans overhype everything she does, however I just wanted to say that brandnewdrew's responses have been very mature and not anything like the overly sensitive Britney fans you've called out.

Thank you. I am one of the most mature and level-headed fans you can find on this ******* crazy forum, so I really had to have a laugh at the assertion that anything I was saying was showing signs of over-sensitivity or immaturity given the way that so many other stans here go off. Let me flip this around for a second -- Do I understand why some people don't like and even hate Britney? Absolutely. But does it affect any of the reasons why I do like her? Not a damn bit.

[TheAmerican]

Originally posted by swissman

I agree with most of what you're saying, and I know that many of Britney's fans overhype everything she does, however I just wanted to say that brandnewdrew's responses have been very mature and not anything like the overly sensitive Britney fans you've called out.

Thank you but like every other Britney fan he shares the trait of deflecting and making assumptions.

[swissman]

Originally posted by TheAmerican

Thank you but like every other Britney fan he shares the trait of deflecting and making assumptions.

That's not something that only Britney fans do though.

[TheAmerican]

Originally posted by brandnewdrew

So because I don't agree with you I'm not playing with a full deck? I absolutely gave you a mature response in the form of my personal opinion and the fact that you still disagree with me is not the issue -- it's that you just can't agree to disagree and continue to beat the dead horse, which shows astounding immaturity on your part, so let's not. Your posts are the equivalent to walking into Pizza Hut and going on and on about how you don't understand why people like pizza. Why should anyone have to justify their opinions to you?

No, you can't provide real answers and you're justifying a hack. You figure it out. You didn't provide anything or defend why you're a fan you just basically said "eh I like her, isn't that enough?" You say you heard her live but can't give an instance of when or where. Don't say something and then runaway from it. I can defend my answers and my thoughts you can't. Pizza is good, anyone who tastes it can agree. You're the equivalent of walking into a pizza hut and ordering a pizza and paying for it and walking away with an empty box and without complaining. That's just insane but justify it any way you want. I guess I'll never know why people like her and why she has fans. I can say though that I tried.

[TheAmerican]

Originally posted by swissman

That's not something that only Britney fans do though.

Who does it the most? Thanks. Every other fanbase has actual ammo to use against Britney fans what do they have 15 year old sales charts?

[as926]

Originally posted by TheAmerican

Thank you but like every other Britney fan he shares the trait of deflecting and making assumptions.

LOL you know absolutely nothing about me, yet made the bold assumption that I'm just like the crazed stans who call her Godney and think she's flawless and can do no wrong. I do not think any of these things. I get why people don't like her. You are just picking and choosing what to respond to in an effort to support your view that she sucks and her fans are crazy.

And you are not going to last long here going on tirades based on blanketed opinions of a fan-base. Pick your battles.

[Smooth Criminal]