[C/H/A/N/E/L]

Originally posted by Brunette Ambition

Madison was a cute in retrospect forgettable character, just like the whole season. Y'all do too much on her corpse

"Surprise bitch" alone immortalizes her. When will anyone else's faves? Not her fault you have bad taste.

Originally posted by MissedTheTrain

I liked Madison but I think she's far from being the best character in all the seasons.

I do think she was a bitch. I mean, it was cool to hear her background and why she was the way she was, but it would have been nice to see a bit more development.....she basically stayed a bitch until her death and didn't have much of a turning point. She was had no problem with Misty and Zoe dying, refused to revive Zoe, and quit the 7 Wonders because she was being a sore loser.

I think the best arc and development might have been with Sr. Jude tbh.

She wasn't just a bitch. That's been the problem with people seeing Emma's characters. Y'all sleep on them (Madison & Chanel, at least) because they're bitches and y'all think that makes them one note. Madison had fantastic development, and the Dead showed very much what kind of direction they should've taken her in. It was in the last 2 episodes with her that they ****ed it all over. But they did that to everyone.

[MissedTheTrain]

Originally posted by C/H/A/N/E/L

"Surprise bitch" alone immortalizes her. When will anyone else's faves? Not her fault you have bad taste.

She wasn't just a bitch. That's been the problem with people seeing Emma's characters. Y'all sleep on them (Madison & Chanel, at least) because they're bitches and y'all think that makes them one note. Madison had fantastic development, and the Dead showed very much what kind of direction they should've taken her in. It was in the last 2 episodes with her that they ****ed it all over. But they did that to everyone.

I don't think she was just a bitch, but judging from the season as a whole, it's frustrating that she ended the same way. Once she was revived she started to show development and change....then went back to being a bitch, which was really annoying. It's like the development was for nothing.

I loved Chanel as a character actually. She is pretty one note but that show is a comedy, and most of the characters aren't exactly realistic.

[Brunette Ambition]

fun fact: madison her leftovers are being mounted by this:





btw, i wish that sex scene was on the dvd.

[C/H/A/N/E/L]

Originally posted by MissedTheTrain

I don't think she was just a bitch, but judging from the season as a whole, it's frustrating that she ended the same way. Once she was revived she started to show development and change....then went back to being a bitch, which was really annoying. It's like the development was for nothing.

I loved Chanel as a character actually. She is pretty one note but that show is a comedy, and most of the characters aren't exactly realistic.

Mess. I realized how aggressive I sounded with that. Sorry. A lot others tend to be more callous and blind.

But I do agree with you in saying that the development was for nothing. That happened to just about everyone at the end of Coven which is why I hate the ending so much.

[Dylangaga]

Lmfao at people STILL arguing about Madison...iconic Queen

[P!nk Forever]

Originally posted by MissedTheTrain

I also think that Cordelia's arc could have been a bit more gradual. It was so sudden the way she all of a sudden rose up.

Cordelia was meant to be the underdog. The question was who would be the new supreme out of the 4 youngins. No one or almost no one would have had the slightest idea that Cordelia was a contender. And definately not after she ended up blind.

[C/H/A/N/E/L]

Originally posted by P!nk Forever

Cordelia was meant to be the underdog. The question was who would be the new supreme out of the 4 youngins. No one or almost no one would have had the slightest idea that Cordelia was a contender. And definately not after she ended up blind.

Okay, but there's a difference between a red herring (Madison seeming like the supreme) & then just outright lying. Ryan said it was between Zoe, Madison, Misty & Queenie. And then it ended up being Cordelia.

But at least it wasn't Zoe.

[Instant]

I'd kill to see that scene with Spalding ****ing Madison's corpse

[P!nk Forever]

Originally posted by C/H/A/N/E/L

Okay, but there's a difference between a red herring (Madison seeming like the supreme) & then just outright lying. Ryan said it was between Zoe, Madison, Misty & Queenie. And then it ended up being Cordelia.

But at least it wasn't Zoe.

Let us hate Ryan for being such a troll.He's so fake.

It's like when he suddenly made Hester the red devil killer when Grace should have been it all along.

[LaNathan]

Originally posted by C/H/A/N/E/L

I agree with all of this.

I know "redeeming" Delphine was impossible because of backlash, but I'm just dragging him for even trying. It's clear he didn't know what he was doing with her. She worked best in her chemistry with Queenie, and the little jokes about her accustoming to modern day. But she never really served any purpose, and her development was so haywire that it was stupid.

And the tea on all those characters' endings. All the M's had bridges dropped on them; there deaths came out of nowhere, and made little sense. Misty & Myrtle died for LITERALLY no reason. Misty died to up the body count and I guess Ryan thought the idea of Myrtle burning again would be iconic or something ("BALENCIAGA!" was, but the burning itself was so unnecessary). Marie died for no reason, too. As for Madison, I have mixed feelings on it. I think it was fitting that she died since it happens to all AHS villains (but she was more of an anti-hero), and obviously wanted her to live since she was my fave, but the manner of her death bothered me the most. I mean, if Kyle had hit her over the head while she walked out and done something, I would've still fumed, but it would've been more logical than her having transmutation, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, and concilium, yet her ass got strangled.

The way things went wrong at the end for literally all of the best characters and we were stuck with Cordelia, ZZZoe, Kyle and Queenie as our survivors was horrid.

I don't know why I go into Ryan Murphy productions expecting a fully-rounded, good story. He only pulled it off with Asylum. I guess it's just that the rest of the season is so hopeful and amazing (see: Coven, Scream Queens, and this so far) and then it just crashes and burns at the end.

I agree, her chemistry with Queenie was amazing, but you could tell that Ryan only included Delphine as long as he did was to keep Kathy around. Honestly, if it wasn't for the dialogue between her and Queenie, I would have wanted her daughters to rip her to shreds when Marie brought them back on Halloween.

I can only think that they killed off Misty for shock value(!) and Myrtle died because Ryan wanted the coven to completely start over from the elders influence? Madison deserved to either die in a way that made sense, or her character needed to just grow and become a better person (but still maintain her bitchy demeanor). Getting killed by Kyle the way she did was so stupid and I'm assuming it was Ryan trying to have some poetic justice by having her killed by her love / creation. But Ryan could have still had that poetic justice but in a way that made sense. He was just like Kyle, he choked that storyline OUT just so he could focus on Zoe, Queenie, and Cordelia revealing witchcraft to the world.


Also, that ending literally pisses me off. We had that big reveal of witchcraft that was making NATIONAL news but it hasn't even been mentioned ONCE in Hotel. It doesn't even make sense that the world would be so accepting of witchcraft either. How wasn't Cordelia committed to an institution?

I just realized that there could have been a common theme in that season in terms of deaths.
Fiona was killed by her creation (Cordelia).
Delphine could have been killed by her creations (zombie daughters).
Marie was killed by her creation (an immortal Delphine).
Madison was killed by her creation (Kyle).
Myrtle could be considered to be killed by her creation as well (since she raised Cordelia).

Am I reading too much into it?

[Dylangaga]

Originally posted by LaNathan

I agree, her chemistry with Queenie was amazing, but you could tell that Ryan only included Delphine as long as he did was to keep Kathy around. Honestly, if it wasn't for the dialogue between her and Queenie, I would have wanted her daughters to rip her to shreds when Marie brought them back on Halloween.

I can only think that they killed off Misty for shock value(!) and Myrtle died because Ryan wanted the coven to completely start over from the elders influence? Madison deserved to either die in a way that made sense, or her character needed to just grow and become a better person (but still maintain her bitchy demeanor). Getting killed by Kyle the way she did was so stupid and I'm assuming it was Ryan trying to have some poetic justice by having her killed by her love / creation. But Ryan could have still had that poetic justice but in a way that made sense. He was just like Kyle, he choked that storyline OUT just so he could focus on Zoe, Queenie, and Cordelia revealing witchcraft to the world.


Also, that ending literally pisses me off. We had that big reveal of witchcraft that was making NATIONAL news but it hasn't even been mentioned ONCE in Hotel. It doesn't even make sense that the world would be so accepting of witchcraft either. How wasn't Cordelia committed to an institution?

I just realized that there could have been a common theme in that season in terms of deaths.
Fiona was killed by her creation (Cordelia).
Delphine could have been killed by her creations (zombie daughters).
Marie was killed by her creation (an immortal Delphine).
Madison was killed by her creation (Kyle).
Myrtle could be considered to be killed by her creation as well (since she raised Cordelia).

Am I reading too much into it?

You're missing the point that this is a series called AMERICAN HORROR STORY...

[LaNathan]

Originally posted by Dylangaga

You're missing the point that this is a series called AMERICAN HORROR STORY...

Still, the point that Fiona was talking about how their kind was oppressed and dying out by witch hunters and others doesn't factor into her decision to just tell the world? I mean yeah, that one group of witch hunters is dead, but I can almost guarantee you that there is more than one witch hunting group in the world.


One of the main themes was oppression and the good sis Delia was looking to kill her entire witch sistren/brethren. Literally now everyone knows they are all located in one general area and can plan one plan to kill them all. I'm all for them not being oppressed anymore, but they needed a better idea of getting rid of that oppression.

[Brunette Ambition]

Originally posted by LaNathan

Also, that ending literally pisses me off. We had that big reveal of witchcraft that was making NATIONAL news but it hasn't even been mentioned ONCE in Hotel. It doesn't even make sense that the world would be so accepting of witchcraft either. How wasn't Cordelia committed to an institution?


Am I reading too much into it?

but in what way should it still be mentioned 2 years later?
like, if there was this HUGE announcement on tv, it would be a HUGE topic for months. but years?
people now are aware of it, probably see them as freaks or idolize them but no way there would still be people running around screaming that witches are real.

cordelia can prove that she is a witch. light a candle with her thoughs for example.
if people could do that irl they wouldn't be put in an institution.

[LaNathan]

Originally posted by Brunette Ambition

but in what way should it still be mentioned 2 years later?
like, if there was this HUGE announcement on tv, it would be a HUGE topic for months. but years?
people now are aware of it, probably see them as freaks or idolize them but no way there would still be people running around screaming that witches are real.

cordelia can prove that she is a witch. light a candle with her thoughs for example.
if people could do that irl they wouldn't be put in an institution.

There hasn't even been ONE witch on Hotel so far (of course we might have Queenie coming back) but still, not ONE mention of witchcraft? I'm not saying people will still be shocked and screaming about them, but people should still be mentioning this like huge event that happened.

Sure Cordelia can prove that example, but how can people just not claim her as a magician with that basic parlor trick?

[Brunette Ambition]

Originally posted by LaNathan

Still, the point that Fiona was talking about how their kind was oppressed and dying out by witch hunters and others doesn't factor into her decision to just tell the world? I mean yeah, that one group of witch hunters is dead, but I can almost guarantee you that there is more than one witch hunting group in the world.


One of the main themes was oppression and the good sis Delia was looking to kill her entire witch sistren/brethren. Literally now everyone knows they are all located in one general area and can plan one plan to kill them all. I'm all for them not being oppressed anymore, but they needed a better idea of getting rid of that oppression.

cordelia said it in her own words.
interviewer:

But there are still hate crimes.

cordelia:

That is true, but, you know, when you hide in the shadows, you are less visible, you have less protection.
We'll always be targets for the ignorant.
It is what it is.
But we are strong women, Bill.

now that they are visible they can contact police or support, for example, which is way more effective than doing stuff on their own.

it's all basicaly a metaphor for lgbt community.

Originally posted by LaNathan

There hasn't even been ONE witch on Hotel so far (of course we might have Queenie coming back) but still, not ONE mention of witchcraft? I'm not saying people will still be shocked and screaming about them, but people should still be mentioning this like huge event that happened.

Sure Cordelia can prove that example, but how can people just not claim her as a magician with that basic parlor trick?

yeah, i still don't know what you expect. a guest coming into the hotel starting to gossip about witches?

[LaNathan]

Originally posted by Brunette Ambition

yeah, i still don't know what you expect. a guest coming into the hotel starting to gossip about witches?



[/CENTER]

One of the vampires could just try to slay someone and the witch could just go abracadabra, the vampire dies, and the witch walks away unscathed.

[P!nk Forever]

Even if Gabourey checks in as Queenie inside the Cortez it's going to be hard to kill her with her voodoo schtick going on. She killed Hank Foxx, the witch hunter back then and only she and Marie survived (with Queenie's help). Her mission could also be to send the ghosts to abyss, nirvana or afterlife. Perhaps she could also revive someone dead (which would be total ********, having 'Coven' references to the already 'Murder House' infected 'Hotel').

[Dylangaga]

They're all set in the present day so references to MH AND Coven make sense

[Mexi]

Originally posted by C/H/A/N/E/L

Unlike how many people see her, I don't think she's just a bitch. Sure, Ryan created the character for Emma to flawlessly deliver one-liners and sarcastic bitchiness (legitimately my favorite form of humor; not just the insults, but the pseudo-deadpan delivery and everything), but she also managed to be extremely well-developed. She wasn't just a bitch with no explanation. Her voiceover in The Dead, along with the here-and-there stories about her life before the academy (such as when she talks about her mom at brunch with Fiona in the Replacements) show her background that kind of built her up to the woman she was in the show. Sure, her being neglected and kind of used as a money machine by her mother, and then had countless relationship failures and a lot of reasons for bitterness on her may not sound like the most intense development, but it's one of the most real ones I've seen on the show. I don't think background & development needs to be super realistic (I mean, it's AHS for God's sake), but something about her story captivated me. I understood her. And I loved her. I thought it was extremely poignant. And while it wasn't the seasonal focus, I legit would say she had better development than any other character in Coven other than perhaps Fiona. The only character I think rivals her with that is Lana, but those two are my top two. Other characters that make up my top 5, like Myrtle and SME, have a presence that I love, like Madison, and a personality I love, and all-around are amazing, solid characters, but I just was drawn to her a bit more than them.

Might sound a bit rambly & hard to follow, but if there's any other questions you have, I'll answer.

Solid explanation I have to admit. I still think there are better characters than Madison but I have to say, you make a compelling argument. I hope you don't think that I'm trying to make a fight or anything, I legitimately was curious as to your reasoning. I was hoping there was something deeper other than just to love her bitchiness, and I'm glad it goes deeper for you than just that.

[Gee]

Lana remains the most fleshed out character in all seasons.