[Sombra]

Originally posted by Pecinta Mariah

Sorry but you gotta read Quran without leaving the context. What do you want to ask I will try my best to answer.

I read and studied the Qur'an, I know a lot of horrible things mentioned in it. The religion itself is violet, most of the muslims I'm friends with don't even know a lot about Islam, like the fact Mohammed married a six year old and had sex with her when she was nine.

[KyIe]

Originally posted by Pecinta Mariah

Sorry but you gotta read Quran without leaving the context. What do you want to ask I will try my best to answer.


Anyway I still think ISIS are not muslims, they're just psychopaths who kill people who don't follow their political agenda. I don't think they stand for sharia since they don't follow sharia itself. There are rules in Islam if you want to have the war, you don't kill children and women is one of the rules.

You have just answered the FUNDAMENTAL problem with religion with you seemingly harmless ignorant tweet. The fact that Islam can be interpreted in such a fashion, much like Christianity is with a variety of other things is the prime flaw of all organized religion. Just because you don't view their interpretation of Islam as Islam doesn't make their views invalid. They are Muslims and they are promoting their version of the Islamic agenda and Jihadism.

[Butters]

One of the streets i was on today had the French flag painted on the road instead of the normal white lines, I wish I had a picture of it.

[Pecinta Mariah]

Originally posted by Iuke

I read and studied the Qur'an, I know a lot of horrible things mentioned in it. The religion itself is violet, most of the muslims I'm friends with don't even know a lot about Islam, like the fact Mohammed married a six year old and had sex with her when she was nine.

I will try to respond comprehensively when I'm on my pc.
For now, it's wrong prejudice, there was backround and reason of it all. But I don't really want to go off topic, I invite you to visit Islam thread I created not so long ago.

[Pecinta Mariah]

Originally posted by KyIe

You have just answered the FUNDAMENTAL problem with religion with you seemingly harmless ignorant tweet. The fact that Islam can be interpreted in such a fashion, much like Christianity is with a variety of other things is the prime flaw of all organized religion. Just because you don't view their interpretation of Islam as Islam doesn't make their views invalid. They are Muslims and they are promoting their version of the Islamic agenda and Jihadism.

Idk what kind of Quran they're reading but jihadism =/= war by killing innocent people

[Icarus]

Originally posted by Pecinta Mariah

Idk what kind of Quran they're reading but jihadism =/= war by killing innocent people

They're reading the same Quran as everyone else

[Gladion]

Originally posted by RomanNavy

Just heard that the guy who I went to HS with is still fighting for his life in a hospital in Paris.

Hope he gets better

[Butters]

Originally posted by IcarusIsFlying

They're reading the same Quran as everyone else

The problem with these centuries old, countless times transcribed and translated religious texts is how they are interpreted by their followers. Same reason some Christians choose to oppose homosexuality because of a Bible verse. Blame the people, not the religion imo

[BlueTimberwolf]

You can't really say that sentiment is just some small minority though.

Also, this is what Muslims actually believe:
Pew Research (2013):
Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda.
Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban.
13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/...remist-groups/
Wenzel Strategies (2012):
58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment.
45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not).
12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death.
43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims.
32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/201...-of-expression
ICM Poll:
40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html
Pew Research (2010):
82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/
WZB Berlin Social Science Center:
65%% of Muslims in Europe say Sharia is more important than the law of the country they live in.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/40...fundamentalism
Pew Global (2006)
68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
http://cnsnews.com/node/53865
World Public Opinion (2009)
61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf
NOP Research:
62% percent of British Muslims say freedom of speech shouldn't be protected
1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
People Press Surveys
31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
http://www.people-press.org/2004/03/...fter-iraq-war/
Belgian HLN
16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1275/Islam/...aardbaar.dhtml
ICM Poll:
25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews...ms%20Nov04.asp
Pew Research (2007):
26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
Al-Jazeera (2006):
49.9% of Muslims polled support Osama bin Laden
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden
Populus Poll (2006):
16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005...itish-islamist
GfK NOP:
28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/Sharia...eLawForAll.pdf
NOP Research:
68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
MacDonald Laurier Institute:
62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
35% of Canadian Muslims would not repudiate al-Qaeda
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01...riah-in-canada
http://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/much-...ion-in-canada/
al-Arabiya:
36% of Arabs polled said the 9/11 attacks were morally justified; 38% disagreed; 26% Unsure
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/20...10/166274.html
Gallup:
38.6% of Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified (7% "fully", 6.5% "mostly", 23.1% "partially")
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/p...like-us-really
Policy Exchange:
1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SU...20Download.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/Sharia...eLawForAll.pdf
(orginally from https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comm...ust_as/cpmyspj)

[BGKC]

Originally posted by KyIe

Lol WHAT. Nice job combating you hatred of Islam-aphobia with your blatant anti-Semitism. Wow people love to blame Jews for everything. Please explain to me how their "profiting" off of this. You're pathetic.

Did you miss the part where I pretty much took a dump on Abrahamic religion all together? not just the Jews. Nice job thinking I was even combating Islamaphobia, moron. Islamaphobia is the go to response when things like this unfold is what I was touching on before. It's a repeated failure.

And to answer your question with an obvious answer, war and terror is the most profitable business in the world. You have Musim countries like Saudi Arabia for example that mostly profits billions off its natural resources such as oil and what have you and then you have a tiny country full of Jews with little resources like Israel that profit from the hundreds of billions of US tax dollars that "aid and support" them amidst the alleged "war on terror". There's other reason to touch on but I won't. Benjamin Freedman talked about the bigger picture in great detail. People just love to eat ********, don't they?

[Jack!]

To be honest, I had intentionally tried to stay away from watching any clips. But I was reading a daily mail article with a few vids on it, one with the girl who was periscoping being one of them. It's so scary that she was possibly so close to the men who were capable of killing so many and she had no idea.

And the video of the people running out of the venue is just disturbing. Especially seeing people who think they're finally running to safety, only to be shot down outside, it's absolute carnage. I couldn't finish the video. Terrifying.

[RomanNavy]

Originally posted by revel8

Just thought that we should all remember that incident of just a few months ago, where that guy on a train in France was going to shoot all the passengers but was stopped by those three unarmed Americans. France is a target for terrorist attacks, some of them get foiled, some of them don't. More attacks in France and elsewhere will be attempted. The Paris attacks were not the first and not the last.

Also I think some people in here are being pretty disingenuous by pretending ISIS are not real Muslims because their interpretation of Islam is not the majority view. Remember there are many interpretations of Islam and they do differ enough to have specific names. You cannot just pretend that only the mainstream or majority flavour of Islam is 'legitimate' or true Islam. That is what bigots do. Let's not forget that Shia are a minority of Muslims. Are they somehow not 'true Muslims'?

Claiming that ISIS are not Muslims because they are a minority amongst Muslims is akin to claiming Orthodox Christians or Baptists are not true Christians because they are outnumbered by Catholics. No member of a minority denomination considers the other denominations more 'devout' or 'true' because other denominations have more believers. ISIS believe that they are true Muslims and they believe that their actions in terms of their version of Sharia Law are justified by Scripture. You can try debating the issue with them, but they don't care in being challenged and will likely just punish you for dissent. Sure majority of Muslims disagree with them, but majority disagree with Shia too. Islam, like Christianity and other religions has different splinters/sects/schools/denominations. The very fact that these differences exist enough to have identifying names acknowledges that different interpretations of religions exist. Claiming one denomination/school is invalid/false/heretical does not make it so. Such claims against different interpetations have long been the source of dissent and conflict.

Lots of people in this thread also make the claim that the US is responsible for the rise of ISIS. Saddam's fall was down to the US but toppling a dictator does not automatically mean a rise in an ISIS-type movement. ISIS only was able to arise as a force because of the divisions between Shia and Sunni in Iraq. The Sunni areas were discontented with the democratically elected Iraqi government because it was Shia-dominated, as they were the majority. This feeling of resentment towards the Baghdad government enabled ISIS to grow as Sunni tribes decided that Sunni groups like ISIS were preferable to the Shia dominated Iraqi government. Without the support of the Sunni tribes in Iraq, ISIS would never have been able to develop into the force it was. ISIS is only a force because of the ongoing struggles between Shia and Sunni Muslims, and those have been going on for hundreds of years before the US was even a nation. Blaming it all on US foreign policy ignores history.

Also let's not forget that the civil war in Syria started as part of the Arab Spring. Syrian children were arrested and tortured by Assad's forces because they wrote anti-Assad graffiti. That kicked off an uprising against the regime of Assad. It is the policy of ISIS to conquer neighbouring people, and take their (non-Muslim) women as slaves, and like to murder homosexuals. That doesn't mean that Assad was not a brutal dicatator who tortured children too.

ISIS's interpretation of Islam is at odds with and abhorred by majority of Muslims, however they have attacted hundreds if not thousands of Muslims from other countries who have travelled to join them. Many more supporters have been denied travel to Syria and arrested, so they clearly have devotees and supporters in many countries. They do have some appeal to some Muslims. Let's not pretend otherwise.

And THIS ladies and gentlemen is the first step to fight religious extremism.
Thank you. To deny a link between islam and the acts ISIS carries out in its name is just ridiculous.

Recognizing this is not to stigmatize every western muslim but it means being realistic about where the challenge is coming from and what the challenge is. There are passages in the Quran that DO contain violence and it's important to acknowledge this. Extremism is not created in a vacuum, ISIS legitimate their actions on the Quran. EVERYONE with an ounce of intelligence knows not all muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are muslims. This shouldn't even have to be said. However by victimizing muslims and acting like islam has no part in this, you're basically preventing self-criticism and reform of the religion; we NEED this criticism and a dialogue to make people understand that a strict and violent interpretation of the Quran is not acceptabel in our society. There is a peaceful interpretation of the islam (which MOST muslims follow obviously) but it's up to local imams, schools and parents to carry out that message. Victimhood posturing and self-pity of the muslim community must end. Just as Nazism succeeded in branding itself and its followers as victims, Islamism thrives on the same conceit. ISIS is trying to polarize our society: muslims VS non muslims. When muslims feel like victims of the west there is an increased DANGER of radicalization and that's exactly what ISIS wants.

[Butters]

Originally posted by RomanNavy

And THIS ladies and gentlemen is the first step to fight religious extremism.
Thank you. To deny a link between islam and the acts ISIS carries out in its name is just ridiculous.

Recognizing this is not to stigmatize every western muslim but it means being realistic about where the challenge is coming from and what the challenge is. There are passages in the Quran that DO contain violence and it's important to acknowledge this. Extremism is not created in a vacuum, ISIS legitimate their actions on the Quran. EVERYONE with an ounce of intelligence knows not all muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are muslims. This shouldn't even have to be said. However by victimizing muslims and acting like islam has no part in this, you're basically preventing self-criticism and reform of the religion; we NEED this criticism and a dialogue to make people understand that a strict and violent interpretation of the Quran is not acceptabel in our society. There is a peaceful interpretation of the islam (which MOST muslims follow obviously) but it's up to local imams, schools and parents to carry out that message. Victimhood posturing and self-pity of the muslim community must end. Just as Nazism succeeded in branding itself and its followers as victims, Islamism thrives on the same conceit. ISIS is trying to polarize our society: muslims VS non muslims. When muslims feel like victims of the west there is an increased DANGER of radicalization and that's exactly what ISIS wants.

This makes a lot of sense and helps me understand the sentiments in this thread but I dont think forced reformation of Islam is realistic. There will always be the extremist few who manage to get some other people to see what they see. Who are we to tell people how to practice their faith? It would just lead to more misunderstanding and hatred, more Muslims who feel that their religion is under attack by the western world, more justification for them to join ranks with terror organizations like ISIS.. I don't there's much of anything we can do except bomb potential threats and defend ourselves against these people, sadly.

[KyIe]

Originally posted by BGKC

Did you miss the part where I pretty much took a dump on Abrahamic religion all together? not just the Jews. Nice job thinking I was even combating Islamaphobia, moron. Islamaphobia is the go to response when things like this unfold is what I was touching on before. It's a repeated failure.

And to answer your question with an obvious answer, war and terror is the most profitable business in the world. You have Musim countries like Saudi Arabia for example that mostly profits billions off its natural resources such as oil and what have you and then you have a tiny country full of Jews with little resources like Israel that profit from the hundreds of billions of US tax dollars that "aid and support" them amidst the alleged "war on terror". There's other reason to touch on but I won't. Benjamin Freedman talked about the bigger picture in great detail. People just love to eat ********, don't they?

You're claiming that 5 million jews manage to profit of the war and terror that BILLIONS face. and I'm the moron.

They are in "little, tiny" Israel because they LITERALLY have no where else. They are America's true ally in the region and who are you to decide where America gifts its money to. GTFO.

[Caesar]

The SJWs need to read this

[KyIe]

Originally posted by Caesar

The SJWs need to read this

This. And the fact that "mourning" all the attacks is literally just a 10 word tweet saying your "prayers". Saying you give prayers online is absolutely meaningless in my opinion. Like are you actively doing anything to show your support for ANY of the attacks? How can people be so hypocritical. Just because you recognized it on twitter doesn't help anything.

[QueenB]

Originally posted by Caesar

The SJWs need to read this

The people mad at others saying "all lives matter", are the same ones saying "all tragedies matter" (note: saying both is incredibly stupid).

[Repo]

Originally posted by Caesar

The SJWs need to read this

I agree with this.

Originally posted by QueenB

The people mad at others saying "all lives matter", are the same ones saying "all tragedies matter" (note: saying both is incredibly stupid).

I know. It is so incredibly hypocritical

[BGKC]

Originally posted by KyIe

You're claiming that 5 million jews manage to profit of the war and terror that BILLIONS face. and I'm the moron.

They are in "little, tiny" Israel because they LITERALLY have no where else. They are America's true ally in the region and who are you to decide where America gifts its money to. GTFO.

I'm an American! I have the right to be upset about where my tax money goes. I hate the fact our tax dollars go to ****ing Israel. Who are you to tell me I should be ok with America vicariously working through Israel to terrorize and strip the Middle East of all its resources all while exploiting the Islamic religion through ploys such as ISIS. The French are the terrorist tonight you ****ing blind ass bat.

All the money we spend on Israel's military could be going to raise us out of ****ing poverty. But no, so many people rather think like you which is why I'll gladly get the **** out now.

[YoYo]

Originally posted by revel8

Also I think some people in here are being pretty disingenuous by pretending ISIS are not real Muslims because their interpretation of Islam is not the majority view. Remember there are many interpretations of Islam and they do differ enough to have specific names. You cannot just pretend that only the mainstream or majority flavour of Islam is 'legitimate' or true Islam. That is what bigots do. Let's not forget that Shia are a minority of Muslims. Are they somehow not 'true Muslims'?

different interpretations =/= things taken out of context.