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Discussion: Talking about Iggy to White people?
Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by GotSkill
I seriously do not understand what you're trying to say. I read every argument in the OP (although I admit I didn't read the entire linked article)
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Sis
Quote:
Originally posted by GotSkill
They're basically saying the because (and ONLY because) Iggy and Macklemore are white that they're cashing in on the black struggle and that its completely wrong for them to borrow from African American culture in any way.
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You might've skimmed with quickness but
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 18,649
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
d
People look sideways if a Black man does a rock song, yet Black people originated rock n roll.
A Black woman entering a jazz club would be the minority, yet Black people originated jazz.
and you don't see how appropriation isn't significant?
d
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but...why are these things bad? yeah, a lot of white people make rock music, but how does that harm anyone? it's not that i don't believe appropriation exists, it's just that i don't understand why people think it's always a morally wrong thing to do. it's a bad thing that these kinds of songs get more successful if they're done by white people, but how are the white people themselves doing something immoral?
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Member Since: 1/11/2012
Posts: 14,421
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Quote:
Originally posted by Latch
because people are desensitized to issues that they don't have to deal with
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Pretty statement but it's not true
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by accelgors
but...why are these things bad? yeah, a lot of white people make rock music, but how does that harm anyone? it's not that i don't believe appropriation exists, it's just that i don't understand why people think it's always a morally wrong thing to do. it's a bad thing that these kinds of songs get more successful if they're done by white people, but how are the white people themselves doing something immoral?
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I don't know that your ready for this type of conversation if you can't understand why it's wrong that today's society finds it jarring to see non-White people making rock music, when Black people are the ones who originated it in the first place.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I don't know that your ready for this type of conversation if you can't understand why it's wrong that today's society finds it jarring to see non-White people making rock music, when Black people are the ones who originated it in the first place. |
in the same way that today's society finds it jarring for a blonde white girl to make rap music?
I'll be back when a valid argument comes around 
Also I just read the whole article. My argument stands
And I don't appreciate the very selective quoting. You basically disregarded my entire statement for the sake of trying to find a weak point. Let's discuss instead please
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Member Since: 9/4/2012
Posts: 4,435
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Quote:
Originally posted by Latch
Not you tryna shade my character
THis isn't about me or my character
THis is about Whites appropriating others' cultures and benefiting from it without the minority group getting any credit
and also about other White people minimizing the plight of minority groups when someone sheds a little light on it
nd I do read through all of your unnecessarily long, misinformed paragraphs,
but I choose to respond to only one or two of the many problematic statements because those are generally the ones that stick out the most to me
The snarky replies and gifs are just part of who I am as a member
I said baby, I do this
I thought that you knew this
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I believe people have already expressed a desire to hold a discussion. Trying to act snarky for the sake of laughs isn't really elevating any sort of discussion, so this might not be about your character, but your character is certainly not useful to the purpose of pure discussion. Do you, though. I already said that.
More so than white privilege, this is about Iggy fortunately finding success rapping whereas many white people would never try to embark on such a career. As for somehow not being credited, I don't think there's actually a problem with black people somehow being discredited for cultivating rap and hip-hop culture, and there has never been a time that Iggy has taken all the credit and totally overlooked T.I. and his support -- and the support of many others.
As for the second part of your post, I've not touched on overlooking oppression once in this thread, so there's nothing I can really reference from my own posts.
Good. Continue to read them, because I try to maintain a level of fairness throughout. 
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 18,649
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I don't know that your ready for this type of conversation if you can't understand why it's wrong that today's society finds it jarring to see non-White people making rock music, when Black people are the ones who originated it in the first place. |
or instead of trying to be snarky you could actually read what i'm saying. i didn't say that society is justified. i said that it doesn't make sense to me to judge the character of the individual person that's making the music. what are they doing that shows they're being a bad person? it bothers me when people judge others as racist for appropriating when it's not something done out of intentional racism
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Member Since: 10/1/2011
Posts: 53,790
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Quote:
Originally posted by GotSkill
in the same way that today's society finds it jarring for a blonde white girl to make rap music?
I'll be back when a valid argument comes around
Also I just read the whole article. My argument stands |
But that has nothing to do with what he said.
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by GotSkill
in the same way that today's society finds it jarring for a blonde white girl to make rap music?
I'll be back when a valid argument comes around
Also I just read the whole article. My argument stands |
No, not in the same way, because blonde white girls didn't originate rap music. Moreover, mainstream society doesn't embrace black rock artists like they embrace the Iggys and the Macklemores of this world.
dd I already said on the second page that this thread isn't for people who can't read critically or reply thoughtfully. I'm on mobile, so I'm not going to continue putting effort into replying to this foolishness.
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Member Since: 9/4/2012
Posts: 4,435
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
no one says that
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People have said that. Trying to paint white privilege over her success when there are so many more factors that take precedence is not okay. People have tried that with statements like, "She's only successful because she's white," -- I'm paraphrasing here. Just a few days ago someone said if she wins a VMA it's solely because she's white. I mean, what even?  I obviously haven't read through every post in here, but just glancing over a few posts, it seems like people are trying to discredit her.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by accelgors
but...why are these things bad? yeah, a lot of white people make rock music, but how does that harm anyone? it's not that i don't believe appropriation exists, it's just that i don't understand why people think it's always a morally wrong thing to do. it's a bad thing that these kinds of songs get more successful if they're done by white people, but how are the white people themselves doing something immoral?
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It's bad because of the erasure of history of minority groups' contribution to those genres
For one group to have created something on their own only for a second group to swoop in, steal it, popularize it and completely wipe the other group out of the equation is problematic
No one is saying every single White person alive needs to be scalped for this,
but this certainly is problematic and it is still being perpetuated because of artists like Iggy and Macklemore who take this art form and twist it to be more appealing to pearly White buying public.
Fancy is not a hip-hop song
Can't Hold Us is not a hip-hop song
These are basic, formulaic, repetitive top 40 pop bops
But, these songs are included in the hip-hop categories at award shows and are more likely to win over actual hip-hop artists on the basis of popularity alone
Like my bae Doc said before,
Rock n Roll and Jazz music came from Black people, but they've become so White-washed that it's now uncommon to see someone Black having involvement with either genre,
and there's a lot of history that gets lost with that
A lot of people talk about Elvis, The Beatles, Pink Floyd, and Nirvana as important figures in the history of rock music, but what about the good sis Nat King Cole?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quietly Trek
People have said that. Trying to paint white privilege over her success when there are so many more factors that take precedence is not okay. People have tried that with statements like, "She's only successful because she's white," -- I'm paraphrasing here. Just a few days ago someone said if she wins a VMA it's solely because she's white. I mean, what even? I obviously haven't read through every post in here, but just glancing over a few posts, it seems like people are trying to discredit her. |
!!!!!!!!! x10000000
And certain mods/members are so unwilling to hold an actual discussion about this that they're saying everyone who doesn't agree with their position is racist/stupid, and then try to argue that those of us trying to hold a discussion should leave and we have nothing to say
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by accelgors
or instead of trying to be snarky you could actually read what i'm saying. i didn't say that society is justified. i said that it doesn't make sense to me to judge the character of the individual person that's making the music. what are they doing that shows they're being a bad person? it bothers me when people judge others as racist for appropriating when it's not something done out of intentional racism
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I didn't read your words? Did you not call appropriation harmless? Did you not question why these things are bad?
Sis.
Quote:
Originally posted by Quietly Trek
People have said that. Trying to paint white privilege over her success when there are so many more factors that take precedence is not okay. People have tried that with statements like, "She's only successful because she's white," -- I'm paraphrasing here. Just a few days ago someone said if she wins a VMA it's solely because she's white. I mean, what even? I obviously haven't read through every post in here, but just glancing over a few posts, it seems like people are trying to discredit her. |
I've been here for the entire discussion and not one person participating in the thoughtful discussion has said that.
In fact, I clearly remember saying that her race has facilitated her success in part.
This is why it's hard for ATRL to have thoughtful discussions. People come in with their minds set and are so quick to assume the opposing argument without actually reading.
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Member Since: 9/4/2012
Posts: 4,435
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Quote:
Originally posted by GotSkill
!!!!!!!!! x10000000
And certain mods/members are so unwilling to hold an actual discussion about this that they're saying everyone who doesn't agree with their position is racist/stupid, and then try to argue that those of us trying to hold a discussion should leave and we have nothing to say
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This is so common on ATRL, and it's one of the worst aspects of this site followed by the need to use GIFs at every turn to somehow make snarky sentiments! What's the point of actually holding a discussion if you've already decided to act obnoxiously towards anyone you disagree with?
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by ethan
Pretty statement but it's not true
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She me the proof where it's not true,
and I'll show you every page of this thread where someone has tried to turn cultural appropriation into something "not so important" simply because it doesn't affect them and they can't understand it
Show me da receipts where it's not true,
so we can talk about how the gay movement is mainly beneficial to White gays who can fit a certain mold, whereas the sistrens of color hardly even see themselves represented in the media
Or how these gals get on Grindr talking about, "No Black, no Asian, No non-White Latinos, nobody with any melanin at all, just colorless, straight-acting gym buddies/tennis partners," and it's chalked up to "oh, just a preference, not rooted in racism and definitely not a social issue"
Even with race-based discrimination,
it's often presented as a very American, Black vs White thing,
and people forget that there are also other groups whose problems aren't being addressed
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Member Since: 9/4/2012
Posts: 4,435
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I've been here for the entire discussion and not one person participating in the thoughtful discussion has said that.
In fact, I clearly remember saying that her race has facilitated her success in part.
This is why it's hard for ATRL to have thoughtful discussions. People come in with their minds set and are so quick to assume the opposing argument without actually reading.
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I'm assuming not everyone here has participated in that thoughtful discussion, and posting GIFs at every turn certainly doesn't help make any post more thoughtful. However, as I already said, I haven't read this thread in its entirety, so what I've brought up in quoting you has been what I've observed around this site regarding Iggy.
I agree with your third paragraph, and that goes for people on both sides of the argument.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I didn't read your words? Did you not call appropriation harmless? Did you not question why these things are bad?
Sis.
I've been here for the entire discussion and not one person participating in the thoughtful discussion has said that.
In fact, I clearly remember saying that her race has facilitated her success in part.
This is why it's hard for ATRL to have thoughtful discussions. People come in with their minds set and are so quick to assume the opposing argument without actually reading. |
you say that, yet when I explicitly asked to have a discussion with you you edited out any piece of my actually argument and quoted the part saying I didn't read the whole article (which I now have) and told me I'm unable to understand anything?? I don't know why I bother trying. I'm trying to have an actual conversation here but the only responses I'm getting to my comments are "you're 100% right" or "get out you have no brain"
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 3,513
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
d
People look sideways if a Black man does a rock song, yet Black people originated rock n roll.
A Black woman entering a jazz club would be the minority, yet Black people originated jazz.
and you don't see how appropriation isn't significant?
d
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Quote:
Originally posted by Latch
It's bad because of the erasure of history of minority groups' contribution to those genres
For one group to have created something on their own only for a second group to swoop in, steal it, popularize it and completely wipe the other group out of the equation is problematic
No one is saying every single White person alive needs to be scalped for this,
but this certainly is problematic and it is still being perpetuated because of artists like Iggy and Macklemore who take this art form and twist it to be more appealing to pearly White buying public.
Fancy is not a hip-hop song
Can't Hold Us is not a hip-hop song
These are basic, formulaic, repetitive top 40 pop bops
But, these songs are included in the hip-hop categories at award shows and are more likely to win over actual hip-hop artists on the basis of popularity alone
Like my bae Doc said before,
Rock n Roll and Jazz music came from Black people, but they've become so White-washed that it's now uncommon to see someone Black having involvement with either genre,
and there's a lot of history that gets lost with that
A lot of people talk about Elvis, The Beatles, Pink Floyd, and Nirvana as important figures in the history of rock music, but what about the good sis Nat King Cole?
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I'm not gonna get into this cause people, especially Iggy stans, have proven many times that they are not willing to understand all of this, I can't and won't put time into this. Good luck to the others. Educate them..
EDIT: The article was a good read though. Thanks for that.
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quietly Trek
I'm assuming not everyone here has participated in that thoughtful discussion, and posting GIFs at every turn certainly doesn't help make any post more thoughtful. However, as I already said, I haven't read this thread in its entirety, so what I've brought up in quoting you has been what I've observed around this site regarding Iggy.
I agree with your third paragraph, and that goes for people on both sides of the argument.
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I would recommend reading the article and the thread then.
This thread (and the article) isn't even an attack on Iggy and that's made very clear in the majority of this thread.
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Member Since: 7/9/2010
Posts: 28,061
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DRAG her.
Lmfao at all the white people in here trying to negate the article. Your words don't matter.
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