[MrPeanut]

Originally posted by J a y

No one's condoning rape or blaming the victim, at all. I cannot stress this enough.

Selena made a point that young girls should be taught about not getting so intoxicated, thus avoiding assault.

"Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don't know. I'm not blaming the girl, but if you're a 16-year-old and you're drunk like that, your parents should teach you—don't take drinks from other people. She's 16, why was she that drunk where she doesn't remember?"

You don't think this reads as shifting responsibility from the rapists onto the victim? Her actions are under scrutiny while the actual act of rape is minimized as just "something stupid."

[J a y]

Originally posted by Stephen

And that is exactly what's wrong with the arguments I'm reading. Some of you are just SO content in the world we live in and wouldn't think critically to challenge it in any way. No, let's not frame the discourse on finding out why people rape, or ways that we can stop men from raping, let's just accept the fact that it will happen and tell girls to not get drunk or "avoid putting music headphones in both ears."

In a perfect world, that would be lovely. We live on Earth, though.

[Big Smoke]

Originally posted by Great Username

What... the...?

Nice to know.

[Ties]

Originally posted by Eaten By Lions

Don't fling that phrase at me lol. I know exactly what it is, hence why I pointed out that men need to be raised with the understanding of how consent works. I do not trivialize or normalize rape in any capacity, and nothing I said in my post insinuates that.

If/when I have kids, I will raise them with the knowledge that in this world, evil exists. People do evil things, and there are preventative measures you can take to help ensure your safety. This goes for all forms of harmful crime. Understand that not all rapists commit crimes because they are victim of a sexist and oppressive society. Some commit the crime knowing damn well that it is damaging, evil and harmful. They care more about their own twisted need for control or pleasure to empathize with the victim. That is what makes them damaged, dangerous criminals.

I'm not going to *not* inform my daughter of this because I think it establishes me as a feminist. I already believe in full equality for men and women. Which is why I know that both men and women need to grow up with the resources they need to understand dangers of the world, and the reality of consent. They can exist together, it's not one lesson over the other.

My problem with people in this thread, however, is that they're seriously blaming the victim for her crime.

Absolutely no one here is saying that you should terminate rape awareness classes.

[Lyrical.]

This thread is out of hand lol it's going to get closed soon

[J a y]

Originally posted by MrPeanut

"Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don't know. I'm not blaming the girl, but if you're a 16-year-old and you're drunk like that, your parents should teach you—don't take drinks from other people. She's 16, why was she that drunk where she doesn't remember?"

You don't think this reads as shifting responsibility from the rapists onto the victim? Her actions are under scrutiny while the actual act of rape is minimized as just "something stupid."

I've already pointed out that Selena's comment about the rapists is something I don't agree with. I agree with this.

Most of what I've said in the last few pages isn't about the topic, but rape in general.

[Ties]

Originally posted by MrPeanut

"Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don't know. I'm not blaming the girl, but if you're a 16-year-old and you're drunk like that, your parents should teach you—don't take drinks from other people. She's 16, why was she that drunk where she doesn't remember?"

You don't think this reads as shifting responsibility from the rapists onto the victim? Her actions are under scrutiny while the actual act of rape is minimized as just "something stupid."

[Ties]

Originally posted by Stephen

No, I'm saying that's what the people in here are arguing for (and working under the pretense of) in terms of what they deem "preventative measures."

girl my bad i misread

[TheAqua]

Originally posted by Great Username

'Preventable rape'.

Yeah if she was sober she easily could have fought off two football players and stopped herself from being raped!

Yeah because there were others there at the party,better yet if she felt threatened,she could have called for help or just plain left...but oh wait she was Knocked the F^ck Out so she didn't have CHANCE.

Nice try though at sarcasm.

[Great Username]

Originally posted by Eaten By Lions

Don't fling that phrase at me lol. I know exactly what it is, hence why I pointed out that men need to be raised with the understanding of how consent works. I do not trivialize or normalize rape in any capacity, and nothing I said in my post insinuates that.

If/when I have kids, I will raise them with the knowledge that in this world, evil exists. People do evil things, and there are preventative measures you can take to help ensure your safety. This goes for all forms of harmful crime. Understand that not all rapists commit crimes because they are victim of a sexist and oppressive society. Some commit the crime knowing damn well that it is damaging, evil and harmful. They care more about their own twisted need for control or pleasure to empathize with the victim. That is what makes them damaged, dangerous criminals.

I'm not going to *not* inform my daughter of this because I think it establishes me as a feminist. I already believe in full equality for men and women. Which is why I know that both men and women need to grow up with the resources they need to understand dangers of the world, and the reality of consent. They can exist together, it's not one lesson over the other.

Nice strawman of an essay. You said you can't raise men not to be rapists. You are wrong. But go ahead, focus on raising women not to be raped instead.

[MrPeanut]

Originally posted by J a y

I have already pointed out that Selena's comment about the rapists is something I don't agree with.

Most of what I've said in the last few pages isn't about the topic, but rape in general.

There have been many people in this thread saying that Serena said nothing wrong.

[Penk]

Originally posted by 8=K=A=Y=B=E=E=D

Are y'all ****ing kidding me? Are any of you victims of rape? I am and, yes, I had been drinking that night and underage at that. I was WELL aware of my surroundings and what was going on with me, but I was in NO position to protect myself. I was 5'0'' and 105 lbs at the time. My perpetrator was over 6'0'' tall and over 180 lbs. What the **** was I supposed to do? Was I wrong because I trusted the wrong person and allowed myself to be alone with him? I had known him for years and he never came across as a rapist.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. Some people in this thread just don't get it.

[Sinister]

i don't get the argument about her being aware of her environment

It's 2 FOOTBALL PLAYERS against a small girl...even if she was sober, she would have still been raped

[Eaten By Lions]

Originally posted by Stephen

No, I'm saying that's what the people in here are arguing for (and working under the pretense of) in terms of what they deem "preventative measures."

Yes. Some "preventative measures" listed are ****ing stupid. Rape has no relation to a woman wanting go out to bars, to parties, what she wears, or how many people she sleeps with. But teaching young girls to be cautious of accepting drinks from strangers is not reinforcing sexist principles.

Not saying the girl in this case is in any way at fault though. She isn't. People don't inherently assume these things will happen to them. That's why it's important for parents to educate well.

[Javan]

Originally posted by Ties

We're finally on the same page! Good on you!

Now let me clock you back to the depths of Hell. She was vulnerable. She was outnumbered. She was intoxicated, not of her own volition. How do you prevent that?
What should be done? Where do we draw the line? You're dressing too ****ty! You're exposing too much skin! Why are you outside at a party?! You can be raped in that shirt?!

Did anyone mention how she dressed? I don't think we did

Originally posted by Ties

Yes. Yes. Yes.
This is the point of feminism. Why should males in society be able to wear whatever they want without any grave repercussions? Are you seriously arguing for societal inequalities? Why do you think women in the UAE rebel against the foundations there? I bring this up because it is perfectly sound in this content: For equality. Why should it matter what I, as a woman, wear outside? Why should I always be the one to watch out for myself against men? Why should I always "be careful"? Why? You can't dress modestly and avoid rape because no one buys that floral skirt at Abercrombie thinking "Hey! Maybe I'll get raped real good tonight with this on!" No one says that.

Well, I wouldn't advice anyone to break the law if it puts their life at danger. But that's not the point. The point is, if she does get the death penalty, obviously she should take responsibility for what she did not do to prevent punishment. Nobody is saying the punishment is just, but she is still responsible regardless. Nice try

[Starburst]

Originally posted by nicklada

......................................... Yes because those are the only situations where murder is possible.

No, but those are some common examples. You're saying every person on this earth has an equal chance to be murdered, and that our choices don't change this probability?

........................................... Yes, it's your fault for getting drunk. The people who noticed that and decided to rape you are completely in the right. Let's just ban liquor and that way nobody will ever be raped

I'm pretty sure in most cases it IS a person's conscious choice to get drunk. I never said the rapists are in the right? It's digusting but it happens. And getting drunk with strangers IS risky. What does victim blaming have anything to do with that fact?

Screaming.

I can pick a quote apart too, it doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

[Яeo.]

Originally posted by Auraeolux

The pop girls we stan for get drunk and always dress promiscuously. By your logic I guess they might as well get raped too because they didn't cover up?

That's beyond dumb because the 'pop girls' all have bodyguards 24 hours, unlike the average people who can't afford that.

AND DONT try to make me look like I'm saying the victim is to blame in rape cases. But, rapists do find drunk targets much "easier" to rape than sober ones for obvious reasons. So if you're at a party in which you don't know anyone at, don't get too drunk and don't take drinks from nobody. Life 101.

[Big Smoke]

Originally posted by Great Username

'Preventable rape'.

Yeah if she was sober she easily could have fought off two football players and stopped herself from being raped!

If she was sober and not alone, her decision making skills might have been better, and the likelyhood of being raped wouldve been a LOT lower.

Like, I dont see why this is such an hard concept to grasp.