So, will the international community pretend that this genocide never happened? Who's going to pay for the damages caused to the infrastructure? I heard that Hamas is not invited to the negotiations.
So, will the international community pretend that this genocide never happened? Who's going to pay for the damages caused to the infrastructure? I heard that Hamas is not invited to the negotiations.
er...
(1) The UN is already trying to deal with the civilian deaths. And I'd say "genocide" might be too harsh to use here.
(2) I assume that Fatah would want to try and pry money out to fix the infrastructure if they could get back INTO Gaza but i doubt Hamas would allow their fellow Parliament coalition partners/rivals back into the territory.
(3) I believe that Hamas HAS been invited to Egypt to meet and discuss the cease-fire along with Israel and the US, EU, Russia and UN mediators. However, I think Hamas is not sending it's high officials out of Damascus (although their leadership did appear in Qatar for the Arab League summit protested by Saudi Arabia and Jordan)
Mikal's opinion on the whole damn mess:
Normally I eye Israel with issue and sometimes cause - Israel has ignored plenty of UN statements and rules concerning illegial settlements, restitution to Palestinians ousted from their lands and territorial issues. However, Hamas' constant need to fire artillery into Israel for either kicks or to start **** needed to stop. And the previous truce was barely holding anyways. I actually think Israel was right in invading Gaza to stop the shelling. Did they do right by trying to level Gaza City? No. Should they be firing at UN hospitals and schools? Of course not. But if the evidence does show Hamas gunmen using those sites as lauching areas for missiles then there's some explanation. (yes yes we need to SEE evidence of this and I expect the UN to be pressing in getting those issues addressed quickly).
I figured Israel would invade and occupy the 5-10 miles of Gaza on the border as a security zone a la the illegal Southern Lebanon front, not a full-scale assault on the territory.
Besides, Hamas may be Palestinian in people but they'd not have the ammo they use to fire on Israeli cities without assistance from Iran and Syria, neither of which are Palestinian peoples (Persian and Arab, based on state). Proper land and sea border patrols would lessen Iran's influence in trying to stage yet another proxy war to drum up more anti-Israeli support throughout the Muslim world.
Finally, since it's clear we have a Israel Needs To GTFO/Israel Should Stay/Well You Suck/No You Suck issue going, how about closing this thread? The last thing a music forum needs is a mini war that I'd propose be dealt with in the NB thread.
Shimon Peres, Israeli president, deeply humiliated by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkish Prime Minister at Davos, Switzerland.
Quote:
Leaders of Turkey and Israel Clash at Davos Panel
By KATRIN BENNHOLD
Published: January 29, 2009
DAVOS, Switzerland — Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey walked off the stage after an angry exchange with the Israeli president, Shimon Peres, during a panel discussion on Gaza at the World Economic Forum on Thursday, vowing never to return to the annual gathering.
Mr. Erdogan apparently became incensed after the moderator curtailed his response to remarks by Mr. Peres on the recent Israeli military campaign. The panel was running late, and Mr. Peres was to have had the last word, participants said.
Panel discussions at Davos are restricted to one hour, but Mr. Erdogan insisted on responding to Mr. Peres. Red-faced, and with one hand grasping the arm of the moderator, the columnist David Ignatius of The Washington Post, Mr. Erdogan turned to the Israeli president.
“Mr. Peres, you are older than me,” he said. “Your voice comes out in a very high tone. And the high tone of your voice has to do with a guilty conscience. My voice, however, will not come out in the same tone.”
Resisting efforts by Mr. Ignatius to end the session, Mr. Erdogan continued, saying to Mr. Peres, “When it comes to killing, you know well how to kill.”
Eventually, the prime minister gathered up his papers and departed, saying, “And so Davos is over for me from now on.”
Mr. Peres pointed at the departing Mr. Erdogan and said Turkey would have reacted the same way had rockets been falling on Istanbul, participants said.
Mr. Peres called Mr. Erdogan five minutes later to apologize for any misunderstanding, saying that his words had not been directed at the prime minister personally, the semiofficial Anatolian News Agency reported.
In a news conference immediately after the panel discussion, Mr. Erdogan said he was particularly upset with Mr. Ignatius, who he said had failed to direct a balanced and impartial panel.
By all accounts, the discussion of the Gaza offensive was lively, with Secretary General Ban Ki-moon of the United Nations and Amr Moussa, the Arab League’s secretary general, joining Mr. Peres and Mr. Erdogan. Participants said Mr. Peres was mostly alone in defending Israel’s role in Gaza, and for that reason he was given the final 25 minutes to speak. Earlier, Mr. Erdogan spoke for 12 minutes about the Palestinians’ sufferings.
Although Mr. Erdogan has strongly criticized Israel’s Gaza offensive, his country and Israel have long enjoyed close diplomatic relations. With its strong relations with the militant group Hamas, which controls Gaza, Mr. Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party has played a growing role mediating among Israel, Syria, Lebanon and the Palestinians.
Turkish leader hailed at home after Israel dispute
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA
Jan 30, 12:01 PM EST
ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) -- Turkey's prime minister drew praise Friday from Hamas militants for confronting the Israeli president over civilian casualties and said "everybody should take sides," despite Turkish efforts to mediate in the Middle East.
...
Red and white Turkish flags flapped next to green Hamas banners at rallies throughout Gaza City on Friday, as well as the ruins of a bombed-out mosque in the Gaza refugee camp of Jebaliya. Later, about 5,000 Hamas supporters rallied in front of the ruined Palestinian parliament, some waving Turkish flags and carrying pictures of Erdogan. (See picture above posted)
"We consider this a daring and responsible position that expresses the pulse and outlook of the Islamic nation and confirms the rights of the Palestinian people," Hamas legislator Mushir al-Masri Mashir said of Erdogan's confrontation with Israeli President Shimon Peres. "It is a position more advanced than those of the Arab and Islamic regimes."
...
"No one should portray the killing of those children or women as a simple job accident," Erdogan said at the inauguration of a subway station in Istanbul on Friday. "Being silent in the face of oppression is oppression itself."
Israel has blamed civilian deaths in Gaza on Hamas and other Palestinian fighters for allegedly using the population as cover for operations. Erdogan, however, said "no one can downplay" the Palestinian casualties.
"We are not categorically accusing Israel, Israelis or Jews. Our criticism is directed at phosphorus bombs, weapons of mass destruction. Our reaction is against the Israeli administration," he said. "Everybody should take sides and Turkey's side is clear: it is on the side of peace."
A crowd of about 1,500 people chanted "Turkey is proud of you" and "Down with Israel."
Earlier, more than 5,000 jubilant supporters, many waving Turkish and Palestinian flags, thronged the airport to welcome Erdogan after he returned from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
...
Peres said Friday his heated public exchange with Erdogan was not personal and ties between the two nations won't change. He said he spoke afterward with Erdogan.
"I called him up and said, 'Yes, I do not see the matter as personal ... and the relations can remain as they are," Peres said. "My respect for him didn't change. We had an exchange of views."
...
(Blah, blah, blah. The Israeli media is mad )
...
Turkey is Israel's best friend in the Muslim world. During the Gaza war, Turkey positioned itself as a potential mediator with unique access to the two enemies, but its perceived neutrality faded with Erdogan's harsh criticism of the Israeli offensive.