|
News: Serena Williams exposed as disgusting victim blamer.
Member Since: 2/18/2012
Posts: 25,853
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Stephen
Explicitly, nobody. Implicitly, too many people.
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
Victim blaming is very often implicit.
|
I don't think people are implicitly blaming the victim, but I'm speaking for myself and for the people who are on the same page as me. I think we all know if someone gets raped the blame is on the rapist. But as I said, we're living in a time where sexual predators are a real danger and they're a huge problem. I think there's things women can do to prevent the chances of being raped and to increase their safety if they were to get in a similar situation. Not implicitly blaming them, though.
|
|
|
Member Since: 10/31/2011
Posts: 16,937
|
'Preventable rape'.
Yeah if she was sober she easily could have fought off two football players and stopped herself from being raped!
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 9/14/2010
Posts: 78,921
|
No one's condoning rape or blaming the victim, at all. I cannot stress this enough.
Quote:
- Be aware of your surroundings. Knowing where you are and who is around you may help you.
- Try to avoid isolated areas. It is more difficult to get help if no one is around.
- Walk with purpose. Even if you don’t know where you are going, act like you do.
- Trust your instincts. If a situation or location feels unsafe or uncomfortable, it probably isn’t the best place to be.
- Try not to load yourself down with packages or bags as this can make you appear more vulnerable.
- Make sure your cell phone is with you and charged and that you have cab money.
- Don't allow yourself to be isolated with someone you don’t trust or someone you don’t know.
- Avoid putting music headphones in both ears so that you can be more aware of your surroundings
|
Selena made a point that young girls should be taught about not getting so intoxicated, thus avoiding assault.
I haven't seen one person say that victims of rape can prevent it entirely by not drinking. Rape is an unfortunate crime that happens, and we can't do anything to stop it. We can, however, take measures to avoid dangerous situations. That's all.
If "avoiding rape" was ridiculous, there wouldn't be such things as rape alarms and handbag pepper sprays. Think.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/25/2012
Posts: 10,076
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Penk
First of all, yes you can take all the preventitive measures you want, and you can still be murdered. Same thing with rape. There is no way to prevent rape from happening! Most rape victims are raped from people you know and trust. It can happen to anyone! You people have to realize even if you dress modestly, don't drink alcohol, don't hang out with strangers, you can still be raped!
|
In that case, Serena wouldn't have made a comment on the woman's choices! There WERE obvious and reasonable errors in that girl's judgement. She didn't suggest she wear a burqa, just not to get drunk in a room full of people you don't trust.
|
|
|
Member Since: 10/1/2011
Posts: 53,790
|
Okay but people aren't getting is that even if you're with friends or without friends, it doesn't excuse you being raped.
A girl can be high on CRACK cocaine and absolutely DONE and even that doesn't excuse her being raped.
|
|
|
Member Since: 10/31/2011
Posts: 16,937
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Big Smoke
What if she was an adult, in a situation like and that and she was gonna drive home? I mean she deserves the right to go out, have fun, get as inebriated as possible, do whatever she wants without consequence, why not drive herself home? Right?
|
What... the...?
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/18/2011
Posts: 17,136
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Stephen
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you, but glad you aren't blaming yourself for something you didn't cause. You're very strong.
|
Thank you. I'm glad someone gets it.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 25,077
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Gangsta4alife
Yeah rape would be less common in society worldwide if we stop trying to put the blame on the victim. It should solely rely on the rapist, and you wonder why so many women don't come forward
|
Are you frickin kidding me. No it wont. Do you really think rapists are like "Hmmm, I guess because I can share blame with her, I might as well go along with it". No . Rape will be less common if we teach our children to respect women. More women will come forward if we don't give them any responsibility (which is a good thing), but statistically speaking, rape would be even more common in our society. So again, you are wrong.
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 6/23/2012
Posts: 4,290
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Starburst
Don't involve yourself in illegal activity? Don't treat people like ****? Pretty easy to not be murdered.
|
......................................... Yes because those are the only situations where murder is possible.
Quote:
Don't get drunk at a party if you don't have friends or can't depend on yourself to protect you? Same logic.
|
........................................... Yes, it's your fault for getting drunk. The people who noticed that and decided to rape you are completely in the right. Let's just ban liquor and that way nobody will ever be raped
Quote:
None of this has anything to do with blaming the victim,
|
Screaming.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/25/2011
Posts: 10,337
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Great Username
You don't really 'get' rape culture do you?
|
Don't fling that phrase at me lol. I know exactly what it is, hence why I pointed out that men need to be raised with the understanding of how consent works. I do not trivialize or normalize rape in any capacity, and nothing I said in my post insinuates that.
If/when I have kids, I will raise them with the knowledge that in this world, evil exists. People do evil things, and there are preventative measures you can take to help ensure your safety. This goes for all forms of harmful crime. Understand that not all rapists commit crimes because they are victim of a sexist and oppressive society. Some commit the crime knowing damn well that it is damaging, evil and harmful. They care more about their own twisted need for control or pleasure to empathize with the victim. That is what makes them damaged, dangerous criminals.
I'm not going to *not* inform my daughter of this because I think it establishes me as a feminist. I already believe in full equality for men and women. Which is why I know that both men and women need to grow up with the resources they need to understand dangers of the world, and the reality of consent. They can exist together, it's not one lesson over the other.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/23/2011
Posts: 11,596
|
Quote:
Rape is an unfortunate crime that happens, and we can't do anything to stop it.
|
And that is exactly what's wrong with the arguments I'm reading. Some of you are just SO content in the world we live in and wouldn't think critically to challenge it in any way. No, let's not frame the discourse on finding out why people rape, or ways that we can stop men from raping, let's just accept the fact that it will happen and tell girls to not get drunk or "avoid putting music headphones in both ears."
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MM3
Staying sober doesn't prevent rape, but it makes you less vulnerable. I don't understand what's false about that statement...? That's not blaming the victim, that's common sense. The boys are absolutely disgusting and there's no excuse for what they did. There will always be disgusting people in the world and we can't change that, but we can make ourselves less vulnerable. If somebody tried to take advantage of your body (God forbid + it's hard to even imagine) would you rather be sober or completely TRASHED? Hmm....let me think....
|
Would you rather be safe in your house, or at a party where people could rape you?
Hmm....let me think....
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/18/2012
Posts: 25,853
|
Who is saying that makes it excusable though? Like I said earlier, this debate is really going nowhere so it should just really get to the point where people are agreeing to disagree.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/27/2006
Posts: 51,546
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Great Username
Erm, no, because if they nearly got hit by a car that would have been an accident? And rape isn't an accident?
And you saying that if she was sober maybe she could have in some universe fought off two high school football players.
You're saying she shouldn't have put herself in that situation. But there is no rape situation. There is no typical rapist. Studies show that men who commit sexual violence come from every economic, ethnic, racial, age and social group. 85% of rapists are men known to their victims. Women shouldn't feel like they have to take precautionary measures such as not getting drunk (which men are never told to do; excessive drinking is instead laddish and cool). Sober women get raped.
The only solution to rape is by stopping people from raping.
|
I said if she were sober she could then fight them off? I'm not going to argue words being put in my mouth... and I'm not going to argue the national stats about rape when discussing this one rape case, which is very much different than in the case of knowing your rapist. So there are different situations, imo. If this were something like a child being molested, obviously I wouldn't have the same stance.
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 6,046
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
A burqa wouldn't prevent rape in her sitution because she would still get raped anyway. She didn't get raped because of how she looked. She got raped because she was vunerable. Rape is mostly a power thing, not a sexual thing. So your examples are irrelevant.
[/CENTER]
|
We're finally on the same page! Good on you!
Now let me clock you back to the depths of Hell. She was vulnerable. She was outnumbered. She was intoxicated, not of her own volition. How do you prevent that?
Quote:
t depends. Where are we? Either way you are using "should" equivocally. You are getting confused in what I'm saying is right, and what should be done.
|
What should be done? Where do we draw the line? You're dressing too ****ty! You're exposing too much skin! Why are you outside at a party?! You can be raped in that shirt?!
Quote:
[CENTER]Women shouldn't have to wear burqas anywhere. We shouldn't force public dress codes. But if I woman would recieve a possible death penalty for walking outside with a mini skirt, are you saying she should walk outside with a miniskirt?
|
Yes. Yes. Yes.
This is the point of feminism. Why should males in society be able to wear whatever they want without any grave repercussions? Are you seriously arguing for societal inequalities? Why do you think women in the UAE rebel against the foundations there? I bring this up because it is perfectly sound in this content: For equality. Why should it matter what I, as a woman, wear outside? Why should I always be the one to watch out for myself against men? Why should I always "be careful"? Why? You can't dress modestly and avoid rape because no one buys that floral skirt at Abercrombie thinking "Hey! Maybe I'll get raped real good tonight with this on!" No one says that.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/21/2012
Posts: 703
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Starburst
Don't involve yourself in illegal activity? Don't treat people like ****? Pretty easy to not be murdered.
|
Please say that you're being sarcastic.
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 6,046
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Stephen
And that is exactly what's wrong with the arguments I'm reading. Some of you are just SO content in the world we live in and wouldn't think critically to challenge it in any way. No, let's not frame the discourse on finding out why people rape, or ways that we can stop men from raping, let's just accept the fact that it will happen and tell girls to not get drunk or "avoid putting music headphones in both ears."
|
You're arguing under the pretense that women get drunk to be raped though.
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/15/2012
Posts: 5,955
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
And what if you were raped while you were sober?
What behavior would you try to correct then???
|
I would not get raped because if i was in that same situation i know how say NO,call 911, or cut a ***** as a last result, or just leave the party period. Now if im just randomly assaulted out in broad daylight,there was nothing I could do . It was a surprise I didn't see it coming,opposed to events like that, where I can prevent myself from getting drunk and passing out around strangers,leaving them to do GOD knows what to my body while im unconscious.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/23/2011
Posts: 11,596
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ties
You're arguing under the pretense that women get drunk to be raped though.
|
No, I'm saying that's what the people in here are arguing for (and working under the pretense of) in terms of what they deem "preventative measures."
|
|
|
|
|