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News: Shootings/explosion in Paris
Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 12,514
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Like, if you're going to War against ISIS, why would you still accept people from the region where ISIS is located?
I just don't see any country in Europe willing to still accept the Refugees at this point. ISIS want war, they getting war.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 9/14/2010
Posts: 78,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by revel8
We need to be realistic. Islamic extremists number more than just a few people. Probably hundreds of thousands globally share the viewpoint of supporting atrocities like we've seen last night in France. ISIS is estimated at 10-100k fighters. You also have the Taliban in Afghanistan,Tehrik-i-Taliban in Pakistan, Islamic militants in Kashmir. Al Quaeda operating in Iraq/Syria/Yemen, Boko Haram in Nigeria, Al Shabaab in Somalia.
All of these organisations are Islamic Sunni terrorist groups who believe in fighting for their various territories and that their interpretation of Islam (Wahhabism) gives them religious justification for doing so. Let's be clear the vast majority of muslims are not members of these organisations, or share their interpretation of Islam. So these Islamic groups are very much a minority of Sunni Muslims. We need to also be clear that despite them being a minority, they are still a significant number and widespread and committed enough to enforce their beliefs on others. They believe they have scriptural justification for their interpretation of Islam, they don't agree with dissenters on this point, and they are willing to enforce their interpretation on others with violence. Tolerance of a different way of life is not something they generally allow. Saying that they are not true Muslims is just pointless. They believe they are true Muslims and are willing to kill those who have a different interpretation of Islam. Ironically enough, the vast majority of the people these organisations victimise and kill are also Muslims.
These extremist groups consider Muslims who do not agree with their interpretation of Islam as hypocrites or apostates, and thus acceptable targets for conquest, rape, murder. They also don't consider Shia Muslims as being Muslims either and actively target them. Iran is a Shia Islamic Theocracy. And as such is an enemy of these Sunni muslim extremist groups.
In the West we often get focussed on American foreign policy and what that does to improve things or make things worse in the Middle East. The reality is that the Middle East is in the middle of a regional struggle between Sunni Arab Saudi Arabia and Shia Persian Iran that is playing out in proxy wars. Iran doesn't really have any friends in the region except Assad of Syria. Iran has backed the Hezbollah Shia militia who now control the southern part of Lebanon close to Israel and are too entrenched for Lebanon (or Israel) to displace.
The current conflict in Syria is very complicated. Hezbollah have been fighting to help keep Assad in power in Syria, because Assad is an ally of Iran. Saudi Arabia oppose Iran, and want Assad overthrown. The new King of Saudi Arabia, has raised an army of mercenaries who are fighting in Syria to overthow Assad. So Iranian-backed forces are fighting Saudi-backed forces in Syria. Plus you have ISIS (and Al Nusra) who are Sunni Islamic extremist groups fighting both Assad/Hezbollah/secular opponents/Kurds. Then you have the Kurds who want their own land, the Turks who oppose the Kurds having their own lands. The Kurds are fighting ISIS and Assad. The Turks are also bombing the Kurds/ISIS. Now you have the US who are bombing ISIS and trying to overthrow Assad. And now the Russians are backing Assad and bombing ISIS and anti-Assad factions. It is a giant mess, with all these different factions with different agendas fighting each other.
Currently in Yemen, Saudi forces are fighting against Iranian backed Shia groups and Al Quaeda in Arab Peninsular and ISIS are fighting both of them. So it is not really about America or Israel but the regional battle between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and that is just a continuation of the struggle between Sunni and Shia Islam that has been going on for more than a thousand years.
There is a saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The reality is that often the enemy of my enemy is also my enemy. I am sure Israel knows that all too well.
Muslims in general are just people like everyone else. Let's not demonise them. Let's demonise those who commit the actual atrocities. ISIS and those who share their beliefs.
I think France might go to war with ISIS now. Their President has publicly said the attacks in Paris were 'an Act of War'. ISIS have officially claimed responsibility. Unlike say Al Quaeda, ISIS claims to be a nation state, so when it clams responsibility for an attack on another nation state it can be targets as such. I am not sure what the French people want to do as a response but the French Government will be under pressure to take punitive measures to retaliate against ISIS.
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Member Since: 7/13/2010
Posts: 11,566
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So basically, with that confirmation from the Greek government, the movement of this person, involvement of this person, and coordination with this person took a month from their time of entry.
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Member Since: 1/1/2013
Posts: 15,264
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bad Kid.
it's sad but everyone is gna be looking at refugees like this now.
and can you really blame us who live in Europe or any big city for being paranoid after this and the promise from IS of more attacks?
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Nah, I refuse to look at the refugees like that. I'm not scared that a random drunk homeless person or any other person will stab me in the neck with a knife or running me over when crossing the street, why should I be scared of every single refugee? Yesterday, right before these events, I discussed having some refugees over for the holidays with my boyfriend and I still plan on doing that, just cook for them, eat with them, have some fun, just be a decent human being
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Member Since: 1/1/2012
Posts: 19,672
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Quote:
Originally posted by BadMonster
Nah, I refuse to look at the refugees like that. I'm not scared that a random drunk homeless person or any other person will stab me in the neck with a knife or running me over when crossing the street, why should I be scared of every single refugee? Yesterday, right before these events, I discussed having some refugees over for the holidays with my boyfriend and I still plan on doing that, just cook for them, eat with them, have some fun, just be a decent human being
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You might not, but I'm sure a lot of people are going to be wary and paranoid.
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Member Since: 8/27/2012
Posts: 5,009
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 12,514
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Quote:
Benjamin Cazenoves posted an update on Facebook from inside the theater: “Alive. Just some cuts. Carnage. Bodies everywhere.”
Mr. Pearce told CNN that he saw two of the men enter and begin to fire randomly. He said the gunmen wore black and said nothing. They simply fired indiscriminately into the crowd. Mr. Pearce said that when he walked out into the street, he saw 25 bodies on the ground.
“It lasted for 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 horrific minutes when everybody was on the floor covering their heads and we heard so many gunshots, and the terrorists were very calm, very determined, and they reloaded three or four times their weapons,” Mr. Pearce said.
At around 10 p.m. the gunmen began rounding up survivors, holding them as hostages as dozens of police officers massed outside. For more than two hours a tense standoff prevailed, with more and more police arriving at the scene, enlarging the tense perimeter around the music hall in the city’s 11th Arrondissement.
“I saw these two crazy guys arrive — they started firing on everybody,” a witness named Yasmine told BFM television. She heard one of the men shout, “ ‘What you are doing in Syria, you are going to pay for it now.’ ”
Yasmine began to cry as she recounted what she had seen. “I’ve never seen so many dead around me.” She was shot in the foot.
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Omg
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Member Since: 7/13/2010
Posts: 11,566
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It is not that people do not trust refugees. It is that people do not trust the process in which refugees have come to Europe to possibly detect those that are not actual refugees/come with bad intentions. It has been so unregulated and unorganized (in part due to the policies of the EU) that of course there is going to be fear.
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Member Since: 12/21/2010
Posts: 51,088
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skins
Religion has ruined the world. Every single one
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These comments do nothing though. I'm honestly tired of it. It's become a cliché at this point.
What are you going to do about it? Besides bitch about religion.
I'm more concerned about the 128 dead people that were brutally murdered last night and the terrorist organization that planned and executed this disaster.
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 12,514
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Quote:
Originally posted by L/\DY G/\G/\
It is not that people do not trust refugees. It is that people do not trust the process in which refugees have come to Europe to possibly detect those that are not actual refugees/come with bad intentions. It has been so unregulated and unorganized (in part due to the policies of the EU) that of course there is going to be fear.
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Exactly, if the Government cannot keep track of refugees as a whole, then they're not fit enough to take them in. No one (intelligent) is saying that "All Refugees are Terrorist", but the process in which people are taking a massive undocumented population in is idiotic and is the entry way for ISIS to accomplish their goals. It's naive to just ignore what just happened in order to "help" or "not offend". There needs to be change in how these country accept refugees before they do so.
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Member Since: 8/27/2012
Posts: 5,009
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Quote:
Originally posted by BadMonster
Nah, I refuse to look at the refugees like that. I'm not scared that a random drunk homeless person or any other person will stab me in the neck with a knife or running me over when crossing the street, why should I be scared of every single refugee? Yesterday, right before these events, I discussed having some refugees over for the holidays with my boyfriend and I still plan on doing that, just cook for them, eat with them, have some fun, just be a decent human being
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are you a guy? you know they're gonna have a problem with your BF...
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 9/14/2010
Posts: 78,921
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There have been many articles written since ISIS claimed responsibility,
This is the original statement:
Media will dramatise or reword the speech to make their articles original, just read the actual text and skip the middle man.
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Member Since: 1/1/2013
Posts: 15,264
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Quote:
Originally posted by jackieshann
are you a guy? you know they're gonna have a problem with your BF...
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It's not like they are gonna notice he's my boyfriend
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 12,514
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Paris Attacker With Explosive Vest Was Blocked From Entering Paris Soccer Stadium
At least one suicide bomber had a ticket to the France-Germany soccer game, but his explosive vest was found during a security check at the gate
Quote:
PARIS—At least one of the attackers outside France’s national soccer stadium had a ticket to the game and attempted to enter the 80,000-person venue, according to a Stade de France security guard who was on duty and French police.
The guard—who asked to be identified only by his first name, Zouheir—said the attacker was discovered wearing an explosives vest when he was frisked at the entrance to the stadium about 15 minutes into the game. France was playing an exhibition against Germany inside.
While attempting to back away from security, Zouheir said, the attacker detonated the vest. Zouheir, who was stationed by the players’ tunnel, said he was briefed on the sequence by the security frisking team at the gate.
A police officer confirmed the sequence, adding that police suspect the attacker aimed to detonate his vest inside the stadium in order to provoke a deadly stampede.
Around three minutes later, a second person also blew himself up outside the stadium. A third suicide attacker detonated explosives at a nearby McDonald’s, police said. One civilian died in the attacks, police said.
The account sheds light on why the suicide attacks on Stade de France failed to cause the carnage that occurred at the Bataclan concert hall and restaurants across Paris. More than 120 people died in the string of attacks Friday.
The blasts occurred during the first half of the game, sowing confusion throughout the stadium. At least two blasts were heard clearly inside the stadium, witnesses said, and on the television broadcast. Loud blasts aren’t uncommon at soccer matches on the European continent where fans sometimes set off firecrackers.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacker...way-1447520571
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Member Since: 12/7/2011
Posts: 18,969
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Quote:
Originally posted by jonasha
Exactly, if the Government cannot keep track of refugees as a whole, then they're not fit enough to take them in. No one (intelligent) is saying that "All Refugees are Terrorist", but the process in which people are taking a massive undocumented population in is idiotic and is the entry way for ISIS to accomplish their goals. It's naive to just ignore what just happened in order to "help" or "not offend". There needs to be change in how these country accept refugees before they do so.
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This.
And I don't agree with the whole refugees situation right now in Canada because we just hit a recession, an more Canadians are starving everyday. For these Syrian refugees to come means a bigger burden to the Canadian economy since the taxpayers, aka us, will have to pay each refugee $2,000 a month in support and aid.
And Trudeau wants to bring in 25,000 of them by December. That's $600,000,000 a year taxpayers have to pay!
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 12,514
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It's crazy to think what would have happened if they denoted within the stadiums. So many more deaths would occur due to stampeding and the panic. Imagine the President was amidst that chaos too.
Thank goodness the security team did their job.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 31,020
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Quote:
Originally posted by BadMonster
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Well there you have it. Angela Merkel should be held accountable for the disaster that happened yesterday. She invited all of them and pressured the EU to open the borders.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 9/14/2010
Posts: 78,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by jonasha
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I was waiting for the explanation to this as yesterday's reports suggested they were targeting the departing crowd.
Hope the security guards are congratulated properly. They saved a lot of lives. I know they just did their jobs, but still.
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Member Since: 12/22/2009
Posts: 23,538
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Quote:
Originally posted by J a y
There have been many articles written since ISIS claimed responsibility,
This is the original statement:
Media will dramatise or reword the speech to make their articles original, just read the actual text and skip the middle man.
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I'm sorry but Islam must be reformed. If your scrips tell you to kill and destroy there is obviously something wrong with it.
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Member Since: 3/17/2012
Posts: 3,229
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Quote:
Originally posted by BadMonster
Yesterday, right before these events, I discussed having some refugees over for the holidays with my boyfriend and I still plan on doing that, just cook for them, eat with them, have some fun, just be a decent human being
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If you are a man and have a boyfriend, I wouldn't do such a thing - their reaction wouldn't be nice.
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