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ATRL: Nicole's Farewell Letter?
Member Since: 1/22/2011
Posts: 1,935
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haus_of_Nicole
And there's one more thing I MUST add.
BTW isn't just going to be a bump in the road from which Gaga will be able to recover. It's the beginning of the end for her as a pop powerhouse. As stated in the OP, the problem comes from her - she's simply too arrogant now. In a way she reminds me of Xtina, who looked down her nose at her debut album, tried to aim for something "superior," and lost more and more fans with each album until she eventually flopped into reality TV oblivion.
Gaga's arrogance and need for creative control is also keeping her from working with the top producers in the biz. Who's scoring the big pop hits lately? Pink, Katy, Ke$ha, Rihanna, Britney. Is there anything particularly special about them? No, but they work with the very best: the aggressively commercial Max Martin, Dr Luke, Stargate. They wouldn't even exist without them. It's a wonder Gaga even made it this far without their help. And don't mention Adele as an exception because she's not - 21 was crafted by a slick team of top-notch Top 40 producers without which she'd now be devouring flipping burgers in some London pub. Pop music is nothing without powerhouse producers, no matter how talented you are or how big your voice is. So while the other girls sacrifice creative control (you saw that Dr Luke article - he runs his girls like an iron-fisted pimp) in favor of massive hits, Gaga invites her bad kid friends to play around with '90s synthesizers and craft 12-minute songs around her vague Mother Monster lyrics. Does she think she can compete by putting unknown flops like Fernando and DJWS at the helm? Based on BTW, she lacks the vision needed to guide smaller/unknown producers into making great songs that are both commercial and fresh. So it's best to leave it to the experts and be willing to share the credit with them.
Sure, a triumphant pop album full of empowering anthems and deep religious messages would have been amazing. But BTW is not that album. So the problem isn't that Gaga changed...it's that she changed and headed in a direction that she couldn't handle. When you look like you don't know what the **** you're doing, it's a sign that you're better off sticking to the formula that worked for you.
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do you really want her to work with dr.generic and co.?
maybe she is going to change the game with BTW
hell it wouldn't surprise me if she started producing her own songs for the next album
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 4/20/2011
Posts: 4,875
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haus_of_Nicole
And there's one more thing I MUST add.
BTW isn't just going to be a bump in the road from which Gaga will be able to recover. It's the beginning of the end for her as a pop powerhouse. As stated in the OP, the problem comes from her - she's simply too arrogant now. In a way she reminds me of Xtina, who looked down her nose at her debut album, tried to aim for something "superior," and lost more and more fans with each album until she eventually flopped into reality TV oblivion.
Gaga's arrogance and need for creative control is also keeping her from working with the top producers in the biz. Who's scoring the big pop hits lately? Pink, Katy, Ke$ha, Rihanna, Britney. Is there anything particularly special about them? No, but they work with the very best: the aggressively commercial Max Martin, Dr Luke, Stargate. They wouldn't even exist without them. It's a wonder Gaga even made it this far without their help. And don't mention Adele as an exception because she's not - 21 was crafted by a slick team of top-notch Top 40 producers without which she'd now be devouring flipping burgers in some London pub. Pop music is nothing without powerhouse producers, no matter how talented you are or how big your voice is. So while the other girls sacrifice creative control (you saw that Dr Luke article - he runs his girls like an iron-fisted pimp) in favor of massive hits, Gaga invites her bad kid friends to play around with '90s synthesizers and craft 12-minute songs around her vague Mother Monster lyrics. Does she think she can compete by putting unknown flops like Fernando and DJWS at the helm? Based on BTW, she lacks the vision needed to guide smaller/unknown producers into making great songs that are both commercial and fresh. So it's best to leave it to the experts and be willing to share the credit with them.
Sure, a triumphant pop album full of empowering anthems and deep religious messages would have been amazing. But BTW is not that album. So the problem isn't that Gaga changed...it's that she changed and headed in a direction that she couldn't handle. When you look like you don't know what the **** you're doing, it's a sign that you're better off sticking to the formula that worked for you.
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Nicole, I think that all of your hate for Gaga comes from the fact that you fear she'll be less successful with Born This Way. The problem is that Gaga changed and headed in a direction that you couldn't handle.
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Banned
Member Since: 11/24/2009
Posts: 61,404
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Quote:
Originally posted by FierceBitch
do you really want her to work with dr.generic and co.?
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Before hearing BTW, no. Like I said, I thought (but doubted), she could have a triumphant Jesus-sent pop empowerment album in her. After hearing BTW, yes.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FameHooker
Nicole, I think that all of your hate for Gaga comes from the fact that you fear she'll be less successful with Born This Way. The problem is that Gaga changed and headed in a direction that you couldn't handle.
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I don't hate Gaga.
It's not that I can't handle the direction - I simply don't like it. I didn't like Gaga because of her success. Just Dance was a non-entity on the charts when I started liking her and The Fame was months away from being released. She was a nobody when I stated liking her, no one knew her name.
Edit: I didn't even know what the Hot 100 was at the time.
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Member Since: 11/13/2009
Posts: 25,902
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I absolutely agree with everything she said. Even the parts about Britney and Beyonce...
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Member Since: 3/4/2011
Posts: 11,853
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Lady Gaga is that bitch, and shes ready for their stones
She will spoon feed you her **** Nicole and you will have no choice but to eat it
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Member Since: 2/16/2010
Posts: 69,775
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The day GaGa sets up an appointment with Dr. Luke & friends is the day that she will have jumped the shark. BTW is the by far her best album because it is completely crafted towards her visions. The beats are better, harder, and more quality than almost everything that man has come up with.
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Member Since: 3/18/2011
Posts: 8,234
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haus_of_Nicole
Before hearing BTW, no. Like I said, I thought (but doubted), she could have a triumphant Jesus-sent pop empowerment album in her. After hearing BTW, yes.
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The day she does that, I'll rechristen myself as a Ke$ha stan.
@_@
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Member Since: 3/6/2011
Posts: 9,523
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Quote:
Originally posted by MusicTalker
The day GaGa sets up an appointment with Dr. Luke & friends is the day that she will have jumped the shark. BTW is the by far her best album because it is completely crafted towards her visions. The beats are better, harder, and more quality than almost everything that man has come up with.
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This.
BTW is Gaga's take on a distinctive and unique sound and it works perfectly for her, just like Rihanna's fond with Electro-Dancehall etc etc
BTW FTW
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Member Since: 11/15/2009
Posts: 16,903
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Gaga told us all from the beginning that she wanted to sell us a lie about being a pop star, and now Nicole's just mad because she completely bought into the lie I really believe Gaga is a performance artist who wanted to show us an extreme pop star. Nicole completely believed in this vision and is now bitter that Gaga is slowly becoming the pretentious rock artist that Gaga always wanted to be.
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Member Since: 3/23/2011
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haus_of_Nicole
And there's one more thing I MUST add.
BTW isn't just going to be a bump in the road from which Gaga will be able to recover. It's the beginning of the end for her as a pop powerhouse. As stated in the OP, the problem comes from her - she's simply too arrogant now. In a way she reminds me of Xtina, who looked down her nose at her debut album, tried to aim for something "superior," and lost more and more fans with each album until she eventually flopped into reality TV oblivion.
Gaga's arrogance and need for creative control is also keeping her from working with the top producers in the biz. Who's scoring the big pop hits lately? Pink, Katy, Ke$ha, Rihanna, Britney. Is there anything particularly special about them? No, but they work with the very best: the aggressively commercial Max Martin, Dr Luke, Stargate. They wouldn't even exist without them. It's a wonder Gaga even made it this far without their help. And don't mention Adele as an exception because she's not - 21 was crafted by a slick team of top-notch Top 40 producers without which she'd now be devouring flipping burgers in some London pub. Pop music is nothing without powerhouse producers, no matter how talented you are or how big your voice is. So while the other girls sacrifice creative control (you saw that Dr Luke article - he runs his girls like an iron-fisted pimp) in favor of massive hits, Gaga invites her bad kid friends to play around with '90s synthesizers and craft 12-minute songs around her vague Mother Monster lyrics. Does she think she can compete by putting unknown flops like Fernando and DJWS at the helm? Based on BTW, she lacks the vision needed to guide smaller/unknown producers into making great songs that are both commercial and fresh. So it's best to leave it to the experts and be willing to share the credit with them.
Sure, a triumphant pop album full of empowering anthems and deep religious messages would have been amazing. But BTW is not that album. So the problem isn't that Gaga changed...it's that she changed and headed in a direction that she couldn't handle. When you look like you don't know what the **** you're doing, it's a sign that you're better off sticking to the formula that worked for you.
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Do you really want Gaga to create the typical, generic and commercial pop music? If you ask me, I’d much rather hear songs about self-acceptance, your last moment on earth, and confronting and forgiving your past than songs about “this place about to blow”, “dancing ‘till the world ends”, or “taking too many shots and dancing on table tops." This album practically creates its own genre, which mixes pop, hard rock, electronic, heavy metal, dance, industrial, soul, gothic, jazz, Latino, tribal, and house music. Maybe Gaga is attempting to give pop music a new face, a much more creative and experimental face.
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Member Since: 6/10/2010
Posts: 18,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by MusicTalker
The day GaGa sets up an appointment with Dr. Luke & friends is the day that she will have jumped the shark. BTW is the by far her best album because it is completely crafted towards her visions. The beats are better, harder, and more quality than almost everything that man has come up with.
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You forgot to mention very loud at times. I love it but i almost had an extreme migraine listening to it last night. That was on half volume too.
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Banned
Member Since: 11/24/2009
Posts: 61,404
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bad Kid
Do you really want Gaga to create the typical, generic and commercial pop music? If you ask me, I’d much rather hear songs about self-acceptance, your last moment on earth, and confronting and forgiving your past than songs about “this place about to blow”, “dancing ‘till the world ends”, or “taking too many shots and dancing on table tops." This album practically creates its own genre, which mixes pop, hard rock, electronic, heavy metal, dance, industrial, soul, gothic, jazz, Latino, tribal, and house music. Maybe Gaga is attempting to give pop music a new face, a much more creative and experimental face.
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That's the problem with a lot of Gaga fans - they think that just because her music isn't about clubs and partying anymore, it's automatically superior. But it's now just overlong and over-produced, with nonsensical lyrics you can't even hear and without big catchy hooks. So yes, I'll take fun, commercial music over that. If she had made amazing "meaningful" songs like Like A Prayer, of course I would have taken that over the fun but generic Dr Luke ****. But she didn't.
Quote:
Originally posted by FameHooker
I'm curious.. What tracks do you like on Born This Way ?
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I don't love any of the songs, but the standout tracks to me are **** (or whatever it's called), Bloody Mary, Heavy Metal Lovers and Electric Chapel.
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Member Since: 7/14/2010
Posts: 3,625
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lol..
it's cause Gaga won't do good on radio this era, she doesn't wanna be embarrassed while it happens.
**** radio, this album is awesome and so is the arrogance she's earned
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Member Since: 6/30/2009
Posts: 1,574
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I'm not saying I wouldn't want Gaga to work with Dr. Luke or Max Martin in the future, because who knows, she might challenge them and they might make something brilliant (like Darkchild and Telephone). But the suggestion that Gaga team up with those two just to score some hits instead of genuinely wanting to craft good music with them is absurd and is almost an antithesis to who Gaga has always been.
This might sound pretentious, especially in a discussion of pop music, but there is a lot to be said for artists who take musical risks instead of following the basic pop trends. Mainstream music is absolutely mercurial. It may seem easy to just follow what's hot, but when it switches up and those hotshot producers you leeched off of are done, you're kind of screwed. Sure, the risks could be almost catastrophic (see Kelly's My December or Christina's Bionic), but being able to change directions and follow paths you believe can pay off in the long run, if done right.
Gaga, and her label, are not stupid; they have excellent pop sensibilities. While her era has been a bit of a mess, at the end of the day, I think they are looking at the forest instead of the trees. If this album proves anything to me, its that she's looking to be a pop icon, which is more than no-frill production (no shade intended) can deliver.
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Member Since: 8/15/2010
Posts: 8,808
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Nicole, you ran around stand your ground proclaiming that Dr.Generic and his entourage are the sespool of pop and then you wish for Gaga to work with them?
She has crafted an album that is both different and exciting, the world of pop music does not have to be based on same-old production from same-old producers; pop needs saving rather then being dragged further down the gutter. Gaga working with the Generic crew is not, in any way, going to help anyone, rather it'll hinder the devolpment of pop as a whole.
In theory Nicole, you have made yourself an idiot, you have backtracked on everything you used to stand for. Good pop music, that is both original and different to the standerd grain. Instead, you want music crafted to sound like everything else on the radio. You can call out Britney and name her as many names as you want but Nicole you want to support an artist that releases samey music and you want to support an artist with little evolution or devolpment in both thier sound and image. I give it a few weeks before the hate firestorm erupts from within your furied heart and you begin mocking and destroying the artist that you supposedly stood for. If I remember rightly I once joked about stanning for Rihanna and you called me out as weak because I would not stand by my favourite because what they released is not as catchy as that of her peers. You are a fake and a hypocrite.
I. Am. Done.
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Banned
Member Since: 11/24/2009
Posts: 61,404
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnotherGagaFan
lol..
it's cause Gaga won't do good on radio this era, she doesn't wanna be embarrassed while it happens.
**** radio, this album is awesome and so is the arrogance she's earned
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As mentioned above, I loved Gaga before I knew what the Hot 100 was.
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Member Since: 2/16/2010
Posts: 69,775
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BTW is not overproduced. In fact, the production is the best I've heard on any pop album. It's brilliant. The whole album is brilliant, & I hope & bet more than a few artists might tweak their sound to keep up with GaGa's pace.
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Member Since: 3/23/2011
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haus_of_Nicole
That's the problem with a lot of Gaga fans - they think that just because her music isn't about clubs and partying anymore, it's automatically superior. But it's now just overlong and over-produced, with nonsensical lyrics you can't even hear and without big catchy hooks. So yes, I'll take fun, commercial music over that. If she had made amazing "meaningful" songs like Like A Prayer, of course I would have taken that over the fun but generic Dr Luke ****. But she didn't.
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You do make an excellent point, most of these songs do have the same meanings as thousands of other songs we've heard before. Gaga is just trying to top herself and make herself "different" so she makes songs like Scheiße, another feminism song, but she sings in different langauges and puts in nonsensical lyrics, which in the end justs make the song confusing and the public doesn't even understand what the song is about. I will agree with you on that.
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Banned
Member Since: 3/4/2011
Posts: 277
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haus of Wilke$
Nicole, you ran around stand your ground proclaiming that Dr.Generic and his entourage are the sespool of pop and then you wish for Gaga to work with them?
She has crafted an album that is both different and exciting, the world of pop music does not have to be based on same-old production from same-old producers; pop needs saving rather then being dragged further down the gutter. Gaga working with the Generic crew is not, in any way, going to help anyone, rather it'll hinder the devolpment of pop as a whole.
In theory Nicole, you have made yourself an idiot, you have backtracked on everything you used to stand for. Good pop music, that is both original and different to the standerd grain. Instead, you want music crafted to sound like everything else on the radio. You can call out Britney and name her as many names as you want but Nicole you want to support an artist that releases samey music and you want to support an artist with little evolution or devolpment in both thier sound and image. I give it a few weeks before the hate firestorm erupts from within your furied heart and you begin mocking and destroying the artist that you supposedly stood for. If I remember rightly I once joked about stanning for Rihanna and you called me out as weak because I would not stand by my favourite because what they released is not as catchy as that of her peers. You are a fake and a hypocrit.
I. Am. Done.
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Banned
Member Since: 11/24/2009
Posts: 61,404
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haus of Wilke$
Nicole, you ran around stand your ground proclaiming that Dr.Generic and his entourage are the sespool of pop and then you wish for Gaga to work with them?
She has crafted an album that is both different and exciting, the world of pop music does not have to be based on same-old production from same-old producers; pop needs saving rather then being dragged further down the gutter. Gaga working with the Generic crew is not, in any way, going to help anyone, rather it'll hinder the devolpment of pop as a whole.
In theory Nicole, you have made yourself an idiot, you have backtracked on everything you used to stand for. Good pop music, that is both original and different to the standerd grain. Instead, you want music crafted to sound like everything else on the radio. You can call out Britney and name her as many names as you want but Nicole you want to support an artist that releases samey music and you want to support an artist with little evolution or devolpment in both thier sound and image. I give it a few weeks before the hate firestorm erupts from within your furied heart and you begin mocking and destroying the artist that you supposedly stood for. If I remember rightly I once joked about stanning for Rihanna and you called me out as weak because I would not stand by my favourite because what they released is not as catchy as that of her peers. You are a fake and a hypocrit.
I. Am. Done.
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I never said Dr Luke & co. are bad. I've listed so many times all the songs they've done that I absolutely love, and I've mentioned that a lot of those songs are superior to Gaga's music, which was lots of fun but let's face it, never groundbreaking in the least.
My Dr Luke disses were aimed at people who said idiotic things like "omg Ke$ha keeps scoring those hits and people thought she was a 1-hit wonder!!!" or "wow Katy keeps scoring #1s, and people said she was over after OOTB, how does she do it?!?!" I replied to those people that of-****ing-course they're going to keep scoring #1s when they're working with the #1 producers in the industry who are experts at making fun, aggressively commercial songs tailor-made for the charts.
I called you out when you were stanning for Rihanna because you looked pathetic thrashing Gaga's looks, calling her names and desperately clinging to someone new (Rihanna) that you didn't truly care for, just because you needed someone to stan for.
When Celestial gave her legitimate reasons for being over Gaga, without bashing her, I didn't call her out.
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