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ATRL: Is Gay Marriage A Human Right?
Member Since: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,105
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Quote:
Originally posted by JeremyALD
Lifestyle.
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Oh yeah,i don't like that kind of things as ''OOH IM LISTEN TO LADY GAGA/BRITNEY(CHER/MADONNA ETC ETC CAUSE IM GAY!!!''
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Member Since: 12/28/2010
Posts: 26,529
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lonƹ
Gays really do have it hard
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yes sort of
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Member Since: 3/15/2011
Posts: 2,676
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
But neither are some people who force themselves to "act straight," but you haven't addressed that.
You also haven't addressed the point I keep trying to make to you: How do YOU know what ANOTHER person's true personality is? How do you know they weren't putting on a front the whole time when they really just wanted to be big flaming queens? How do you know that isn't what makes THEM truly happy? You can't ask us to not judge you, when you're judging these other people's decisions to be part of a loud and proud community.
You're assuming that who these people were BEFORE they changed must be their "true self," completely neglecting the possibility that the OPPOSITE could be totally possible. Maybe they never realized their "true self" was a "loud and proud" gay man UNTIL they became exposed to that world.
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I'd like to think I know my best friends to some degree. I have watched them changed and many times I have watched them become unsatisfied. You don't know someone's true personality, but regardless people change. Sometimes that is for the better, sometimes it is not. You can look at the consequences of their actions. Sometimes they lose a lot of close friends, because they push them away. I'm not assuming anything, I'm speaking from personal experience.
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Member Since: 3/12/2011
Posts: 10,342
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
240+ comments.
I don't know what's sadder: the fact that this thread is still open or the fact that you guys are entertaining Jeremy.
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Leave my psych study alone.
This is very interesting
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Member Since: 3/15/2011
Posts: 2,676
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Quote:
Originally posted by Enne Driver.
Oh yeah,i don't like that kind of things as ''OOH IM LISTEN TO LADY GAGA/BRITNEY(CHER/MADONNA ETC ETC CAUSE IM GAY!!!''
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Kelly Clarkson / Kylie Minogue are my favorite artists. Why BECAUSE i like them.
I'm not saying "you have to be defined according to straight characteristics with a simple attraction to males"
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Member Since: 11/22/2011
Posts: 1,244
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Quote:
Originally posted by JeremyALD
what was your question? amongst the abuse I can't seem to find it.
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I have no questions. merely answers. That is how debates work: one person offers a question or a prompt, and the other gives his response. For your benefit, I will recap in smaller words and in a "laundry list" fashion:
1. You asked if gay marriage is really a human rights issue or an equality issue, and if it is being blown out of proportion.
2. I answered that the The Supreme Court has decided in Loving v. Virginia that
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Marriage is one of the basic civil rights of man.
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3. I also answered that Section One The Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees:
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No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
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4. Therefore, it is a human rights issue. That is the answer to your first question.
1. You also asked if it is being blown out of proportion.
2. I then responded that no, in a country - particularly one that promises to be the purveyor of freedom - where 3%-10% of its citizens are discriminated against by their own government, there is no length to which the incredibly important issue of civil rights can be "blown out of proportion."
3. And homosexuals are indeed discriminated against because, in direct defiance to the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, they aren't allowed to reap the legal benefits of marriage like heterosexuals are. And, furthermore, in many states homosexuals are allowed to be fired merely for their sexuality.
I have, then, answered your question: "Is gay marriage really a right Is it really an equality issue, or is it blown out of proportion?" fully and completely, and I would like a response to my points which I have no simplified.
In addition, I addended the idea that whether or not homosexuality is a choice is irrelevant, because who we choose to love is no business of any politician.
I also think my original text to your question "I seriously think gay marriage is an issue where you have to consider your upbringing, others and yourself. It's a conscious vote and I think it should stay that way." is sufficient:
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Originally posted by Entalan
Of course the environmental factors of homophobia aren't to be ignored, but that is still no excuse for deliberately abridging the rights of innocent citizens. It is irrelevant to the overall issue, because one side is abridging the rights of others, and the other isn't.
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Now that we have that covered, I would like for your to point out where, precisely, in my post I abused you. I apologize if I had, as that was not the intent, but I must be shown where I did so first.
I would also like to quote my link as to what Stockholm Syndrome is, as I think many members in this thread will find it amusing and relevant:
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Originally posted by Stockholm Syndrome
In psychology, Stockholm Syndrome is an apparently paradoxical psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness
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I look forward to your response.
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by JeremyALD
I'd like to think I know my best friends to some degree. I have watched them changed and many times I have watched them become unsatisfied. You don't know someone's true personality, but regardless people change. Sometimes that is for the better, sometimes it is not. You can look at the consequences of their actions. Sometimes they lose a lot of close friends, because they push them away. I'm not assuming anything, I'm speaking from personal experience.
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Sweetheart, that's just called growing up. It has nothing to do with being gay, or the gay community. It happens to straight people too. It's what college and growing up is all about. People start smoking pot, or start smoking crack, or become activists, or become liberals to spite their parents, or become conservatives to spite their parents, or become vegetarians, or eat meat for the first time. I moved 1,800 miles from my high school and don't speak to almost any of my friends from that time period anymore, because I simply had to move on.
At your age, your brain chemistry is still evolving, and people are still prone to make rash decisions that you may not agree with. I'm sorry you've lost friends, or feel that you're less close to your friends because of it, but blaming and vilifying the gay community is not going to help you.
No one is forcing you to be part of the gay community. Personally, I've found myself disappointed by most of the mainstream gay community. I think the music is kind of atrocious, the outfits are tacky, and the focus on vanity really bothers me. But, as you said, it works for other people. It makes other people happy. You may be sad that your friends haven't found happiness in that community, but that can happen in ANY community, and with ANY choice in life.
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Banned
Member Since: 9/22/2011
Posts: 5,131
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
the fact that you guys are entertaining Jeremy.
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I think it's the other way around.
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Member Since: 3/15/2011
Posts: 2,676
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
Why just maybe? How, in any way, does two people getting married and being happy together hurt anyone else?
And sweetheart, I grew up with a Marine Corps dad in South Texas before shipping off to college in ****ing Boston. I've experienced my fair share of perspectives.
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Did I say you haven't? I'd like to think I haven't been disrespectful to your views and engaged in some sort of conversation / debate.
I think you present your arguments constructively , however I believe people should have the freedom of speech without the fear of harsh reactions or personal attacks. I think it's a shame many celebrities, radio hosts ect are afraid to express themselves because of harsh feminist / liberal reactions.
I think conversations / debates are positive for the countries movement. Freedom of speech and democracy is important and I think the more people share their views and perspective the more well informed we will all be. I don't care if those people are in the minority - because all educated views are important to consider. It's a way to boost productivity and awareness. We all have difficult perspectives / skills we can add to conversation and I believe that should be encouraged.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 5/28/2011
Posts: 39,615
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Quote:
Originally posted by JeremyALD
Kelly Clarkson / Kylie Minogue are my favorite artists. Why BECAUSE i like them.
I'm not saying "you have to be defined according to straight characteristics with a simple attraction to males"
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It really seems like you're saying that, though.
What if someone who's a flamboyant, Gaga-loving, rainbow-everything gay is like that because they're just like that? That's just who they are?
Being a stereotype gay doesn't mean it's forced, that's who they might just be.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 5/28/2011
Posts: 39,615
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This bitch is NOT going into freedom of speech.
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by JeremyALD
Did I say you haven't? I'd like to think I haven't been disrespectful to your views and engaged in some sort of conversation / debate.
I think you present your arguments constructively , however I believe people should have the freedom of speech without the fear of harsh reactions or personal attacks. I think it's a shame many celebrities, radio hosts ect are afraid to express themselves because of harsh feminist / liberal reactions.
I think conversations / debates are positive for the countries movement. Freedom of speech and democracy is important and I think the more people share their views and perspective the more well informed we will all be. I don't care if those people are in the minority - because all educated views are important to consider. It's a way to boost productivity and awareness. We all have difficult perspectives / skills we can add to conversation and I believe that should be encouraged.
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If someone is going to use their freedom of speech to tell me I shouldn't have the legal right to marry the man I love, an act that will in no way, shape, or form harm them, I have the freedom of speech to tell them to **** off. You're right, they have all the freedom in the world to express their illogical, baseless opinion, and I have all the freedom in the world to use logic, reason, and conventional morality to rip it to shreds. There are literally NO logical, educated, non-faith-based views to oppose gay marriage in the United States.
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Member Since: 3/15/2011
Posts: 2,676
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Quote:
Originally posted by Entalan
I have no questions. merely answers. That is how debates work: one person offers a question or a prompt, and the other gives his response. For your benefit, I will recap in smaller words and in a "laundry list" fashion:
1. You asked if gay marriage is really a human rights issue or an equality issue, and if it is being blown out of proportion.
2. I answered that the The Supreme Court has decided in Loving v. Virginia that
3. I also answered that Section One The Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees:
4. Therefore, it is a human rights issue. That is the answer to your first question.
1. You also asked if it is being blown out of proportion.
2. I then responded that no, in a country - particularly one that promises to be the purveyor of freedom - where 3%-10% of its citizens are discriminated against by their own government, there is no length to which the incredibly important issue of civil rights can be "blown out of proportion."
3. And homosexuals are indeed discriminated against because, in direct defiance to the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, they aren't allowed to reap the legal benefits of marriage like heterosexuals are. And, furthermore, in many states homosexuals are allowed to be fired merely for their sexuality.
I have, then, answered your question: "Is gay marriage really a right Is it really an equality issue, or is it blown out of proportion?" fully and completely, and I would like a response to my points which I have no simplified.
In addition, I addended the idea that whether or not homosexuality is a choice is irrelevant, because who we choose to love is no business of any politician.
I also think my original text to your question "I seriously think gay marriage is an issue where you have to consider your upbringing, others and yourself. It's a conscious vote and I think it should stay that way." is sufficient:
Now that we have that covered, I would like for your to point out where, precisely, in my post I abused you. I apologize if I had, as that was not the intent, but I must be shown where I did so first.
I would also like to quote my link as to what Stockholm Syndrome is, as I think many members in this thread will find it amusing and relevant:
I look forward to your response.
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I have already responded and I did not need a long winded response calling me for inaccuracies which you have already expressed.
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Member Since: 12/28/2010
Posts: 26,529
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Quote:
Originally posted by IfICannot Love♥
This bitch is NOT going into freedom of speech.
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I dont know what to tell you about jeremy
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 5/28/2011
Posts: 39,615
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
If someone is going to use their freedom of speech to tell me I shouldn't have the legal right to marry the man I love, an act that will in no way, shape, or form harm them, I have the freedom of speech to tell them to **** off.
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Quote:
Originally posted by skyler
I dont know what to tell you about jeremy
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Sis, you should've seen the August thread.
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Member Since: 3/15/2011
Posts: 2,676
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
If someone is going to use their freedom of speech to tell me I shouldn't have the legal right to marry the man I love, an act that will in no way, shape, or form harm them, I have the freedom of speech to tell them to **** off.
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There you lack an understanding of their perspective, but I believe that has to do with the way they would phrase that statement. Finding out why they believe what they say to me would be interesting than telling them **** off "cause your wrong".
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Member Since: 12/28/2010
Posts: 26,529
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Quote:
Originally posted by IfICannot Love♥
Sis, you should've seen the August thread.
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im glad i didnt see
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by JeremyALD
I have already responded and I did not need a long winded response calling me for inaccuracies which you have already expressed.
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So you agree now that gay marriage is a human right, no?
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Member Since: 3/30/2011
Posts: 6,553
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
If someone is going to use their freedom of speech to tell me I shouldn't have the legal right to marry the man I love, an act that will in no way, shape, or form harm them, I have the freedom of speech to tell them to **** off.
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How many more time is Jeremy gonna have his ass kicked to the kerb?
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Member Since: 3/30/2011
Posts: 6,553
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Quote:
Originally posted by IfICannot Love♥
Sis, you should've seen the August thread.
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What was it Is it still on here?
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