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Poll: Greatest Cultural Impact: Madonna vs Beatles vs MJ vs ABBA
View Poll Results: Who? 
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Madonna 
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47 |
20.17% |
Beatles 
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90 |
38.63% |
Michael Jackson 
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83 |
35.62% |
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ABBA
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13 |
5.58% |
Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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mj has NOT had as much cultural impact as the beatles 
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Member Since: 12/28/2010
Posts: 622
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Another thing without the Thriller album there would have been no Madonna. It's no coincidence that she didn't hit big until after thriller.
If anyone would equal it would be the Beatles and MJ.
Beatles
MJ
Madonna
ABBA
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Member Since: 12/28/2010
Posts: 622
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Quote:
Originally posted by jose168
mj has NOT had as much cultural impact as the beatles |
Says who??? No one has yet said came up with a valid response on how the did so much more than him.
For their perspective times they were big. The Beatles defined success for a group in the 60s. MJ defined success for a solo music star in the 80s.
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by chanel
Another thing without the Thriller album there would have been no Madonna. It's no coincidence that she didn't hit big until after thriller.
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... err?
What the hell does Thriller has to do with Madonna's career?
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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Quote:
Originally posted by chanel
Another thing without the Thriller album there would have been no Madonna. It's no coincidence that she didn't hit big until after thriller.
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Maybe because her debut came out a year after? just a thought...
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Member Since: 4/28/2012
Posts: 1,659
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Quote:
Originally posted by BLaCKPoWeR
What are you all ing and crying delusion about? Michael Jackson > The Beatles. WHO did the Beatles open the door for?
No they didn't create the blueprint for modern Rock music by themselves. |
A few points.
1. Given that white performers were already dominating music, who could the Beatles have opened the door for, other than British artists in the US (which they did, dramatically - from being virtual non-entities Stateside beforehand to competing on a level playing field for the next 50 yrs).
2. Michael Jackson was not the first popular black singer/musician. Have you not heard of Louis Armstrong, Nat King Cole, Sammy Davis Jr, Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, Otis Redding, James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Dionne Warwick, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye....I could go on. He certainly inspired a generation of artists (of every colour) who grew up in his wake, but he was not "the guy who opened the door for black musicians".
3. The Beatles didn't create rock music. The likes of Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Elvis etc. did that in the 1950s. What they did do was take the existing template to different levels and experiment with different sounds (Indian music, heavy metal, psychedelic etc.), as well as producing classic singalong pop hits. All while revolutionising the industry commercially, creating sales and chart records which stand to this day. They also created the template for the pop group which stands to this day (both in terms of the photogenic boy band, and in terms of the classic singer/guitarist/bassist/drummer line-up of rock bands).
4. MJ is a legend and probably the most talented non-instrumentalist ever, but I'm afraid he does not and will never match the Beatles for overall influence.
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix83
A few points.
1. Given that white performers were already dominating music, who could the Beatles have opened the door for, other than British artists in the US (which they did, dramatically - from being virtual non-entities Stateside beforehand to competing on a level playing field for the next 50 yrs).
2. Michael Jackson was not the first popular black singer/musician. Have you not heard of Louis Armstrong, Nat King Cole, Sammy Davis Jr, Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, Otis Redding, James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Dionne Warwick, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye....I could go on. He certainly inspired a generation of artists (of every colour) who grew up in his wake, but he was not "the guy who opened the door for black musicians".
3. The Beatles didn't create rock music. The likes of Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Elvis etc. did that in the 1950s. What they did do was take the existing template to different levels and experiment with different sounds (Indian music, heavy metal, psychedelic etc.), as well as producing classic singalong pop hits. All while revolutionising the industry commercially, creating sales and chart records which stand to this day. They also created the template for the pop group which stands to this day (both in terms of the photogenic boy band, and in terms of the classic singer/guitarist/bassist/drummer line-up of rock bands).
4. MJ is a legend and probably the most talented non-instrumentalist ever, but I'm afraid he does not and will never match the Beatles for overall influence.
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I changed my stance to MJ = The Beatles a few pages later, brethren. 
1/2. That is true what you said about the Beatles. I acknowledge that what I said before was a REACH. Michael Jackson opened the door for Black musicians to be spotlighted on MTV. MTV was for a while the biggest force in Pop culture there was and it's still one of the biggest. That is huge. Yes, he did inspire a whole new generation of musicians.
3. Yes. The Beatles experimented with lots of sounds. They were the first. Michael Jackson has also produced classic sing-a-long Pop hits and created chart records that stand today. Michael Jackson is known as the ultimate performer. All of today's performers are measured against him.
4. MJ has done most of the things the Beatles have done. The Beatles have done most of things MJ has done. MJ has done things the Beatles have not. The Beatles have done things MJ has not. I say they match. 
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Member Since: 4/28/2012
Posts: 1,659
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Quote:
Originally posted by BLaCKPoWeR
[CENTER]
Michael Jackson opened the door for Black musicians to be spotlighted on MTV. MTV was for a while the biggest force in Pop culture there was and it's still one of the biggest. That is huge.
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OK this is true, I agree he was definitely the one who broke down the barriers in the MTV/video era.
Quote:
Originally posted by BLaCKPoWeR
3. Yes. The Beatles experimented with lots of sounds. They were the first. Michael Jackson has also produced classic sing-a-long Pop hits and created chart records that stand today. Michael Jackson is known as the ultimate performer. All of today's performers are measured against him.
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Can't disagree with any of this I guess.
Quote:
Originally posted by BLaCKPoWeR
4. MJ has done most of the things the Beatles have done. The Beatles have done most of things MJ has done. MJ has done things the Beatles have not. The Beatles have done things MJ has not. I say they match. |
The Beatles have done slightly more IMHO. 
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix83
OK this is true, I agree he was definitely the one who broke down the barriers in the MTV/video era.
Can't disagree with any of this I guess.
The Beatles have done slightly more IMHO. |
Alright. 
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ATRL Administrator
Member Since: 6/29/2002
Posts: 77,601
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix83
A few points.
1. Given that white performers were already dominating music, who could the Beatles have opened the door for, other than British artists in the US (which they did, dramatically - from being virtual non-entities Stateside beforehand to competing on a level playing field for the next 50 yrs).
2. Michael Jackson was not the first popular black singer/musician. Have you not heard of Louis Armstrong, Nat King Cole, Sammy Davis Jr, Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, Otis Redding, James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Dionne Warwick, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye....I could go on. He certainly inspired a generation of artists (of every colour) who grew up in his wake, but he was not "the guy who opened the door for black musicians".
3. The Beatles didn't create rock music. The likes of Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Elvis etc. did that in the 1950s. What they did do was take the existing template to different levels and experiment with different sounds (Indian music, heavy metal, psychedelic etc.), as well as producing classic singalong pop hits. All while revolutionising the industry commercially, creating sales and chart records which stand to this day. They also created the template for the pop group which stands to this day (both in terms of the photogenic boy band, and in terms of the classic singer/guitarist/bassist/drummer line-up of rock bands).
4. MJ is a legend and probably the most talented non-instrumentalist ever, but I'm afraid he does not and will never match the Beatles for overall influence.
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There were already plenty of British artists who had success in the US. The Beatles then are One Direction now, just teenage girls hyping up a boy band. They hardly "opened the door" for all future British artists. The door was already wide open. It was also a case of the world getting smaller due to technological advances.
All serious artists experiment with different sounds. The Beatles were not doing anything unique, nor were they directly influencing anyone or doing anything innovative. They were very popular, but did not have much respect musically. That only came much later after they'd broken up and people started romanticizing their legacy.
Lastly, crediting a specific four-piece rock band template to the Beatles is the most bizarre claim in your post. Bands have existed for a very long time in all kinds of formations, and there was as much variety then as there is now.
I do agree that they were the first widely successful boy band, and probably had impact on record labels to produce more of their kind.
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Member Since: 7/18/2010
Posts: 29,717
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Obviously The Beatles
They began the whole touring concept. On top of MANY, MANY, MANY other things.
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Member Since: 7/18/2010
Posts: 29,717
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Accidently voted for Madonna... ****. Force of habit.
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Member Since: 4/28/2012
Posts: 1,659
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I think you're playing Devil's advocate but anyway...
Quote:
Originally posted by Kworb
There were already plenty of British artists who had success in the US.
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Untrue. Only Vera Lynn and the Tornados had enjoyed a US No 1 hit before the Beatles emerged. After they broke through, dozens of British artists hit No 1 before the end of the 60s alone. There's a reason why they call that period the 'British Invasion' of the US charts.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kworb
The Beatles then are One Direction now, just teenage girls hyping up a boy band.
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That's how their success started with songs like "She Loves You", "I Want To Hold Your Hand" etc. but as I mentioned - and as you well know - their music progressed well beyond that. Even if the early days, Lennon/McCartney were far greater songwriters than any member of One Direction, The Wanted etc (do any boy bands these days even write their own hits?) I think it's laughable to claim otherwise.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kworb
They hardly "opened the door" for all future British artists. The door was already wide open. It was also a case of the world getting smaller due to technological advances.
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Of course they opened the door. That doesn't mean to say that the Stones, Animals, Who etc. and all the bands that followed didn't earn their success, just that it was easier for them to break the US due to the path trailblazed by the Beatles.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kworb
All serious artists experiment with different sounds. The Beatles were not doing anything unique, nor were they directly influencing anyone or doing anything innovative. They were very popular, but did not have much respect musically. That only came much later after they'd broken up and people started romanticizing their legacy.
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I think few artists of the era can claim to have experimented so successfully with many different genres (i.e. Norwegian Wood - folk rock; Tomorrow Never Knows - psychedelic; Helter Skelter - heavy metal, Yesterday - classic ballad; A Day In The Life - masterpiece almost beyond genre; and so on).
Hmm, re: your comment "they did not have much respect musically" - is that why many artists of the time covered their songs, why Ravi Shankar taught George Harrison the sitar, why they had enduring musical rivalries with other great bands who gave each other mutual inspiration (Stones, Beach Boys etc.)
Quote:
Originally posted by Kworb
Lastly, crediting a specific four-piece rock band template to the Beatles is the most bizarre claim in your post. Bands have existed for a very long time in all kinds of formations, and there was as much variety then as there is now.
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Do you not agree though that the stereotype of a rock band is singer/guitarist/bassist/drummer?
Quote:
Originally posted by Kworb
I do agree that they were the first widely successful boy band, and probably had impact on record labels to produce more of their kind.
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I think 99.9% of people would agree that they were more than a boy band, that's just insulting to them to be honest. 
Incidentally did you vote for Michael Jackson in this poll?
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Member Since: 5/7/2012
Posts: 8,404
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My parents grew up with Michael so they go crazy for Michael, I never heard a Madonna song other than vogue, until I was 17 and Rihanna performed Vogue at Fashion Rocks. After that I checked her out, wasn't entirely impressed I live for her 80's classics though. But Michael's range is inescapable he transcends age, race, gender.
I started listening to the Beatles this year but they don't hit me as well as the Motown classics, I slightly think they're overrated. Just a little. They really didn't have the real competition during their era, Etta James, Lil Richard, and James Brown were obviously not given any shine because of their skin. I don't put the Beatles in front of any of them, simply by personal taste, and the Beatles lack of vocal abilities. I've heard people claiming that the Beatles were better singers than Aretha and they were serious. I was appalled yet intrigued by them, so I listened and yes they were controversial and wrote very good lyrics but they can't sing.
And I only know Dancing Queen by ABBA.
Sorry for the rant just got angry and side tracked. I respect them all though.
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Member Since: 8/30/2011
Posts: 22,432
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Quote:
Originally posted by chanel
Another thing without the Thriller album there would have been no Madonna. It's no coincidence that she didn't hit big until after thriller.
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The trolling 
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Member Since: 8/23/2011
Posts: 11,596
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The Beatles 
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Member Since: 12/14/2011
Posts: 21,274
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kworb
There were already plenty of British artists who had success in the US. The Beatles then are One Direction now, just teenage girls hyping up a boy band. They hardly "opened the door" for all future British artists. The door was already wide open. It was also a case of the world getting smaller due to technological advances.
All serious artists experiment with different sounds. The Beatles were not doing anything unique, nor were they directly influencing anyone or doing anything innovative. They were very popular, but did not have much respect musically. That only came much later after they'd broken up and people started romanticizing their legacy.
Lastly, crediting a specific four-piece rock band template to the Beatles is the most bizarre claim in your post. Bands have existed for a very long time in all kinds of formations, and there was as much variety then as there is now.
I do agree that they were the first widely successful boy band, and probably had impact on record labels to produce more of their kind.
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I'm sorry, but these are all just lies.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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I don't agree with Kworb's points but I like his style.  A lot of Beatles snobs pretend that music didn't exist before The Beatles.
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Member Since: 2/9/2012
Posts: 10,283
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What about Queen and Elvis?
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix83
Of course they opened the door. That doesn't mean to say that the Stones, Animals, Who etc. and all the bands that followed didn't earn their success, just that it was easier for them to break the US due to the path trailblazed by the Beatles.
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Michael Jackson opened the doors for Black people on MTV. He broke down color barriers. He was a BIG help in completing the integration of the music industry.
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I think few artists of the era can claim to have experimented so successfully with many different genres (i.e. Norwegian Wood - folk rock; Tomorrow Never Knows - psychedelic; Helter Skelter - heavy metal, Yesterday - classic ballad; A Day In The Life - masterpiece almost beyond genre; and so on).
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Why does it matter what you've experimented with as long as you've experimented and created something good?
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Do you not agree though that the stereotype of a rock band is singer/guitarist/bassist/drummer?
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4-piece bands were around LONG before them. 
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Just arguing for MJ a little more since Kworb is in now. But you get my point and I get yours.
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