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Celeb News: SNL faces backlash over gender identity joke
Member Since: 2/5/2012
Posts: 791
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I honestly agree with that was one reason the Democrats lost. Sorry.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by M##
I honestly agree with that was one reason the Democrats lost. Sorry.
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That may be so, but it’s a really silly argument to say that people who talk a lot about human rights and maybe are very vocal about are enough reason that someone should move closer towards the side of bigotry. Even if you don’t agree with anything being said about these issues, does that mean you also agree that sexism, homophobia, transphobia, racism, ableism, etc. should not be part of our society? Are these things less important than hearing that a joke is inappopriate?
I really can’t wrap my head around how this logic makes sense.
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Member Since: 1/10/2011
Posts: 2,227
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Originally posted by Glassmouth
you need to learn to take a joke in the real world and being oversensitive over things that people probably do without wanting to harm anyone is not gonna help you
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You have no authority to tell me what to do. Worry about yourself, not me. You don't know me and your opinion doesn't matter to me.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
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Originally posted by swissman
The fact that you are saying that these people need “psychiatric help” basically sums up all I need to know about your ignorance. What you’re suggesting is that people who do not ascribe to either gender require some sort of conversion therapy in order to become the “normal” person you think they should be. That’s both harmful and dangerous rhetoric.
You’ve used the definition of the word “gender” as proof, but that word was created very long ago. I would strongly suggest you do some research into gender diversity, not only in western cultures but in cultures all over the world. There are countless documented, real examples of third or fourth genders in societies where individuals are neither male nor female and often they hold a role of honour in the society. So using a western idea of male and female to cover the entire population of the world is not only ethnocentric but lacks complete empathy.
And my questions are still unanswered. Science has proven what about gender exactly? If you want to use science to back this up, use science, but it seems like you’re using a religious standpoint against it that you’ve either masked in science or do not realize that you feel this way because that religious stance has infiltrated the way you/people in this society think.
Your examples are illogical. Talking about multiple genders still identifies people as living beings. Comparing it to someone claiming to be an inanimate object doesn’t really create a logical comparison.
And lastly, you’re excusing insensitive jokes with the reasoning that because we’ve heard a lot of them before, that they must be able to continue. Joking about mental illness should be off-limits too if the joke is at the expense of the person.
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There's nothing ignorant about hoping that people who have mental problems get the help they need. In fact, allowing them to continue with their delusions is the more cruel thing to do. Whether or not I believe these people to be mentally ill is not something I have yet formed an opinion on, although they seem to use their tumblr accounts to advertise as many mental illnesses as they see fashionable anyway. This collection of mental illnesses in which they engage, by the way, is something which I do find incredibly insulting to close friends of mine who have had genuine struggles with such issues.
Every human society in history has had a two gender system. Every mammalian society in history has had a two gender system. That's how biology works. If you don't want to live in a 'binary' system, fine. But do not expect society to conform to your delusions.
Nothing about my opinion is derived from religion. If social studies has told you that there are more than two genders, feel free to believe that. But until there is some peer-reviewed, evidence-based medical consensus, I won't be changing my views.
And no. Absolutely not. There should be absolutely no limits to free speech unless they explicitly incite violence. Joking about mental illness doesn't cross that line. People may find such jokes tasteless, but that is less dangerous than limiting free speech.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
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Originally posted by swissman
So you've aligned yourself more towards racism because someone called you racist?
Makes no sense.
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Becoming more right wing politically does not make you more racist.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Originally posted by Darren-5-08
Becoming more right wing politically does not make you more racist.
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That's not what I said. I said that going towards the site that is more racist because you're tired of hearing about racism doesn't make sense. Unless of course, you think that racism is a good thing.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
That's not what I said. I said that going towards the site that is more racist because you're tired of hearing about racism doesn't make sense. Unless of course, you think that racism is a good thing.
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You are equating right wing politics with racism, which is wrong. Moving towards the right wing because the left calls you a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe for disagreeing with them is completely natural. People tend to vote for the candidate that doesn't insult them.
Conversation ended with that last comment. Ridiculous thing to say.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
There's nothing ignorant about hoping that people who have mental problems get the help they need. In fact, allowing them to continue with their delusions is the more cruel thing to do. Whether or not I believe these people to be mentally ill is not something I have yet formed an opinion on, although they seem to use their tumblr accounts to advertise as many mental illnesses as they see fashionable anyway. This collection of mental illnesses in which they engage, by the way, is something which I do find incredibly insulting to close friends of mine who have had genuine struggles with such issues.
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I'm not talking about people making up mental illnesses, we are talking about gender non-conformity here. There's a huge distinction because the two are not even at all related.
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Originally posted by Darren-5-08
Every human society in history has had a two gender system. Every mammalian society in history has had a two gender system. That's how biology works. If you don't want to live in a 'binary' system, fine. But do not expect society to conform to your delusions.
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This is a flat out lie. There are plenty of societies that have more than two genders. Again, please do some research on them (for one, there are the Hijra which are officially recognized as a third gender by the governments in Pakistan and Bangladesh).
Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
Nothing about my opinion is derived from religion. If social studies has told you that there are more than two genders, feel free to believe that. But until there is some peer-reviewed, evidence-based medical consensus, I won't be changing my views.
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Since you base your views on peer-reviewed, evidence based medical consensuses, can you please cite those consensuses that emphatically say there can only be two genders? This is the third time I've asked.
I suggested you based this on religion because the way that the Abrahamic religions have enforced a clearly heteronormative storyline on the world has without a doubt influenced even scientists.
Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
And no. Absolutely not. There should be absolutely no limits to free speech unless they explicitly incite violence. Joking about mental illness doesn't cross that line. People may find such jokes tasteless, but that is less dangerous than limiting free speech.
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Who said anything about someone not having the freedom to say what they want? Say it all you want, but the backlash is as much free speech as the original comment. No one is going to jail for an offensive joke, people are merely making a fuss. If people no longer support that person because of it, that's a consequence of their free speech.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
You are equating right wing politics with racism, which is wrong. Moving towards the right wing because the left calls you a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe for disagreeing with them is completely natural. People tend to vote for the candidate that doesn't insult them.
Conversation ended with that last comment. Ridiculous thing to say.
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And yet Trump was one of the most insulting candidates of all time.
But no, being right-minded isn't necessarily racist, but in this election when race was a huge issue and he emphatically used it and racist mentalities to appeal to people, merely going towards the right because someone called you racist is actually enabling and co-signing that racist behaviour that Trump allows into existence.
And why can't a right-wing political person also be concerned about racism? Why is the right a safe space for those who don't like hearing about racism? For what reason?... Maybe because there tends to be more racism in that area?
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 11,012
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
There's nothing ignorant about hoping that people who have mental problems get the help they need. In fact, allowing them to continue with their delusions is the more cruel thing to do. Whether or not I believe these people to be mentally ill is not something I have yet formed an opinion on, although they seem to use their tumblr accounts to advertise as many mental illnesses as they see fashionable anyway. This collection of mental illnesses in which they engage, by the way, is something which I do find incredibly insulting to close friends of mine who have had genuine struggles with such issues.
Every human society in history has had a two gender system. Every mammalian society in history has had a two gender system. That's how biology works. If you don't want to live in a 'binary' system, fine. But do not expect society to conform to your delusions.
Nothing about my opinion is derived from religion. If social studies has told you that there are more than two genders, feel free to believe that. But until there is some peer-reviewed, evidence-based medical consensus, I won't be changing my views.
And no. Absolutely not. There should be absolutely no limits to free speech unless they explicitly incite violence. Joking about mental illness doesn't cross that line. People may find such jokes tasteless, but that is less dangerous than limiting free speech.
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You're my hero. Said it better than I ever could.
And calling us bigots for having such an opinion really isn't going to scare us into mindlessly changing it.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Originally posted by Bey Admired
You're my hero. Said it better than I ever could.
And calling us bigots for having such an opinion really isn't going to scare us into mindlessly changing it.
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What would get you to change your opinion from excluding people's feelings about their gender to finding it a valid identity that perhaps you cannot fathom but to them is completely who they are?
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 68,548
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I thought there were just 3 genders? Are we gonna have 37 bathrooms in the future? 
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 11,012
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Originally posted by swissman
That's not what I said. I said that going towards the site that is more racist because you're tired of hearing about racism doesn't make sense. Unless of course, you think that racism is a good thing.
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I don't think people do it because they are tired of racism.
If you're a left wing rational person, you don't suddenly move to the right because you're tired of hearing about racism. You may, however, move more to the right if you start feeling as if you're walking on egg shells in this overly PC culture. For example, you may move to the right if your daughter wears cornrows, and she is said to be 'appropriating black culture' by someone. It's these things tha build up and start to irritate people. Many black people who voted for Trump will tell you the same.
I was an avid Hillary supporter, but I can recognise why things turned out the way they did.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by KillingYourCareer
I thought there were just 3 genders? Are we gonna have 37 bathrooms in the future? |
I think the idea would be having a gender neutral bathroom. Or a bathroom for gender non-conforming people.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 2,877
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
There's nothing ignorant about hoping that people who have mental problems get the help they need. In fact, allowing them to continue with their delusions is the more cruel thing to do. Whether or not I believe these people to be mentally ill is not something I have yet formed an opinion on, although they seem to use their tumblr accounts to advertise as many mental illnesses as they see fashionable anyway. This collection of mental illnesses in which they engage, by the way, is something which I do find incredibly insulting to close friends of mine who have had genuine struggles with such issues.
Every human society in history has had a two gender system. Every mammalian society in history has had a two gender system. That's how biology works. If you don't want to live in a 'binary' system, fine. But do not expect society to conform to your delusions.
Nothing about my opinion is derived from religion. If social studies has told you that there are more than two genders, feel free to believe that. But until there is some peer-reviewed, evidence-based medical consensus, I won't be changing my views.
And no. Absolutely not. There should be absolutely no limits to free speech unless they explicitly incite violence. Joking about mental illness doesn't cross that line. People may find such jokes tasteless, but that is less dangerous than limiting free speech.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
And yet Trump was one of the most insulting candidates of all time.
But no, being right-minded isn't necessarily racist, but in this election when race was a huge issue and he emphatically used it and racist mentalities to appeal to people, merely going towards the right because someone called you racist is actually enabling and co-signing that racist behaviour that Trump allows into existence.
And why can't a right-wing political person also be concerned about racism? Why is the right a safe space for those who don't like hearing about racism? For what reason?... Maybe because there tends to be more racism in that area?
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Trump didn't insult people in the same way that the left did, though. He said things which people perceived to be insulting, but didn't directly insult them as Hillary did, for example, when she described his voters as deplorables.
This isn't a problem specific to the United States. Around the world, the left will need to find a way to convince people to vote for them other than to describe people who disagree with them as racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe, or they will continue haemorrhaging votes to the right wing.
As I said, people will not vote for a political party that continuously insults them. Perhaps that's why Mexicans didn't vote for Trump. But it's also why people who disagree with abortion didn't vote for Hillary, or why people who don't agree with affirmative action programmes didn't vote for Hillary, or why people who support increased crackdowns on potential terrorism didn't vote for Hillary.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bey Admired
I don't think people do it because they are tired of racism.
If you're a left wing rational person, you don't suddenly move to the right because you're tired of hearing about racism. You may, however, move more to the right if you start feeling as if you're walking on egg shells in this overly PC culture. For example, you may move to the right if your daughter wears braids, and she is said to be 'appropriating black culture' by someone. It's these things tha build up and start to irritate people. Many black people who voted for Trump will tell you the same.
I was an avid Hillary supporter, but I can recognise why things turned out the way they did.
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WHAT? lol
So you're tired of hearing that your daughter appropriated black culture so you decide Trump is the best candidate?
If you're voting on politics based on individuals that are not even running in the election, then you're ignorant to the max.
The funny thing is that if you're not racist or ignorant you don't have to walk on eggshells, you can just use common sense. And no one is mad that kids wear braids unless they are cornrows or distinctly black styles. Nd if they are, then you should be able to tune out the criticism without defaulting for a candidate who is simply terrible for human rights.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 11,012
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
What would get you to change your opinion from excluding people's feelings about their gender to finding it a valid identity that perhaps you cannot fathom but to them is completely who they are?
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Oh, I don't exclude their feelings at all. In fact, I'd be totally respectful and attempt to empathise with anyone who felt this way. However, the idea that this is real and not some sort of psychological issue, I can't really say. I'd like to see a thorough empirical study on gender identity to conclude its validity before changing my mind.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
Trump didn't insult people in the same way that the left did, though. He said things which people perceived to be insulting, but didn't directly insult them as Hillary did, for example, when she described his voters as deplorables.
This isn't a problem specific to the United States. Around the world, the left will need to find a way to convince people to vote for them other than to describe people who disagree with them as racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe, or they will continue haemorrhaging votes to the right wing.
As I said, people will not vote for a political party that continuously insults them. Perhaps that's why Mexicans didn't vote for Trump. But it's also why people who disagree with abortion didn't vote for Hillary, or why people who don't agree with affirmative action programmes didn't vote for Hillary, or why people who support increased crackdowns on potential terrorism didn't vote for Hillary.
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The people who bother you weren't running for president. Hillary was. And she was not as insulting as Trump in the least.
I guess you voted for Trump though.
And if something is racist or homophobic we need to absolutely identify it in order to weed it out. Since when was NOT talking about a problem going to help it? If you're not a racist, then you'll be on the side that wants it to go away and would understand where the comment is coming from, either apologize, learn from it, or try to explain yourself. It's really simple.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 11,012
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
WHAT? lol
So you're tired of hearing that your daughter appropriated black culture so you decide Trump is the best candidate?
If you're voting on politics based on individuals that are not even running in the election, then you're ignorant to the max.
The funny thing is that if you're not racist or ignorant you don't have to walk on eggshells, you can just use common sense. And no one is mad that kids wear braids unless they are cornrows or distinctly black styles. Nd if they are, then you should be able to tune out the criticism without defaulting for a candidate who is simply terrible for human rights.
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I'm saying that hearing about 'appropriation' with regards to pathetic and trivial incidents really irritates many, and Trump founded his campaign on anti-PC rhetoric. It makes sense that those tired of this PC culture would vote for him, even if it's against their self-interest. That's also the reason many black people voted for him. I mean, I was watching a video a few months ago of a back girl literally physically threatening a white man because he was wearing braids in his hair. It literally drove me insane how ridiculously PC we've become.
I mean, I'd never support Trump, but I can understand why he won.
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