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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 9/13/2012
Posts: 7,285
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtForFreedom
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Member Since: 9/13/2012
Posts: 7,285
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Quote:
Originally posted by YSL
Popular Vote so far, for our conspiracy theorists. 
Hillary: 3,740,213
Bernie: 2,379,730 |
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Member Since: 8/29/2011
Posts: 18,282
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Yeah that's why I kinda ignored the list and just read the paragraphs. Even if you ignore her voting history I still think she's too in the center for me.
She wants to work within the corrupt system. More of the status quo basically. Bernie is trying to get the Democratic party back to where it was by giving the system a needed overhaul.
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I mean I get it that you like Bernie more. If you're a real progressive and far left liberal than he definitely appeals more to you. My political sociology professor said "the Clintons will historically do anything to get elected". Honestly, there is some truth to that, but it's not all bad.
Most of her votes and positions that Bernie has attacked her for was when she voted with the vast majority of the Democratic Party. Only exception is Iraq, which the Dems were about evenly split. What I am getting at is Hillary has accurately represented the Democratic Party. Bernie has been the black sheep. I'm not saying that to insult Bernie, because we all know the Democratic Party is not without flaws, and Bernie often represented what The Party was heading for, i.e. gay rights and Iraq. If we believe Hillary will stick with The Party, then that's good news for progressivism. Because the Democratic Party has clearly started to move leftward.
I agree with your last statement. Hillary represents the status quo, and Bernie represents the future. I truly believe that Bernie has already changed The Party and will change it further even if he loses the nomination. Jesse Jackson and Howard Dean are often cited as changing the party more than the person they lost to.
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Member Since: 4/23/2012
Posts: 9,618
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Okay keep telling yourself this. Keep thinking that Congress is going to be more willing to work with Clinton than Obama.
Bernie won't get any support but Hillary will. Okay.
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Welp, when it comes to gun control, I'm sure Bernie, the Republicans and the NRA would have a grand ol' time working on policies.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Originally posted by hooky
Fair enough, but I think these things can be done within 8 years. Sorry for getting a bit hostile.
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I would agree that significant progress can be made in eight years - we differ is in whether Hillary would be just as capable in achieving many of these things in eight years. We're electing a President, but that President will be part of huge party that will continue to push for these things regardless. It's very much about a figurehead, and I think what we look for in the leader we want is different.
I'm someone who happens to love that Hillary is a seasoned, establishment Democrat with diverse experiences, the same views as me, and a history of taking the heat from the Republicans in an effective manner. I know that's not everyone's cup of tea and I won't fight with people who aren't unreasonably rude. I don't see issues with her speaking fees (which went at normal market value) or her campaign contribution (which are overall more populist in nature than Obama's ever were, for example). I acknowledge that some people aren't here for that.
The only thing that does actually get me a bit frustrated is Bernie not being a Democrat for very long at all. I know it's nothing to decide a vote over and it wasn't a part of my decision, but it really does not sit well with me. He might be a liberal, but he has never been until just now a Democrat, and has renounced such a label many times in the past. I understand it's also the only sensible way to a nomination, but I feel that as a Democrat, it's important to me that I support someone with a dedication to both my values and to my party and its overarching goals. It frustrates me that Bernie wants to be a figurative leader of a coalition that doesn't align as well with his views as with the other candidate's, or that wants the same end goals - much like Hillary does - but disagrees greatly on how to get there. It frustrates me that he wants to be the champion of an outsider-forced leftward shift in the party, because I'm not quite as left on the spectrum as him, and I'm one of millions of more moderate Democrats who he risks abandoning in some ways with policy.
The changes we need are apparent, and a huge proportion of liberals agree about them. It's how we get there in the next eight years that really, really matters in this primary.
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Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 15,909
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Can someone please explain to me why I see so many clips of Chris Christie standing behind Trump now? Did he promise Christie VP? New Jersey is hating his ass for this and I'm just confused why he is even there.
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by YSL
Welp, when it comes to gun control, I'm sure Bernie, the Republicans and the NRA would have a grand ol' time working on policies. |
And what are Hillary and the Republicans going to get done?
You continue to ignore this in order to drag Bernie. It's not working.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
And what are Hillary and the Republicans going to get done?
You continue to ignore this in order to drag Bernie. It's not working.
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You might wanna try the "Praise from Republicans" section:
http://correctrecord.org/praise-for-hillary-clinton/
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Member Since: 4/23/2012
Posts: 9,618
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
And what are Hillary and the Republicans going to get done?
You continue to ignore this in order to drag Bernie. It's not working.
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The fact that you're too dense to understand the fact that someone who is more moderate will have more bipartisan luck than someone who is a socialist makes me question whether or not you should be allowed to vote. 
No matter which democrat is elected, they are going to have a hard time getting anything done without a change in Congress itself.
Still, Clinton has a lot of connections and relationships with Congress members that will make it more likely that she'll have support. Do you honestly think someone with decades of influence within the country and globally will not accomplish anything?
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ramcoro
I mean I get it that you like Bernie more. If you're a real progressive and far left liberal than he definitely appeals more to you. My political sociology professor said "the Clintons will historically do anything to get elected". Honestly, there is some truth to that, but it's not all bad.
Most of her votes and positions that Bernie has attacked her for was when she voted with the vast majority of the Democratic Party. Only exception is Iraq, which the Dems were about evenly split. What I am getting at is Hillary has accurately represented the Democratic Party. Bernie has been the black sheep. I'm not saying that to insult Bernie, because we all know the Democratic Party is not without flaws, and Bernie often represented what The Party was heading for, i.e. gay rights and Iraq. If we believe Hillary will stick with The Party, then that's good news for progressivism. Because the Democratic Party has clearly started to move leftward.
I agree with your last statement. Hillary represents the status quo, and Bernie represents the future. I truly believe that Bernie has already changed The Party and will change it further even if he loses the nomination. Jesse Jackson and Howard Dean are often cited as changing the party more than the person they lost to.
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Agreed 
Bernie's speeches and ideas have stuck with a lot of people. I mean it's just ridiculous when you realize that nearly every other major country has free healthcare and America still doesn't. It's sad that Hillary used to be for it and now thinks it'll never happen.
I guess it comes down to how much I trust Hillary. Like your professor said, they'll do anything to get elected. Who knows if the promises she's running on this year will actually be her goals while in office. It's hard to know for sure.
I do know that Bernie's impact will live on though  I bet single-payer healthcare, campaign finance reform, etc will all be much bigger issues after this presidency.
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
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Not really what I was looking for but nice to see some Republicans like her. Aren't most of those moderates though? The conservatives hate her.
Quote:
Originally posted by YSL
The fact that you're too dense to understand the fact that someone who is more moderate will have more bipartisan luck than someone who is a socialist makes me question whether or not you should be allowed to vote.
No matter which democrat is elected, they are going to have a hard time getting anything done without a change in Congress itself.
Still, Clinton has a lot of connections and relationships with Congress members that will make it more likely that she'll have support. Do you honestly think someone with decades of influence within the country and globally will not accomplish anything? |
Exactly. That's my point. Hilary will have just as much push-back as Bernie will.
Clinton is probably more hated than Obama. Sure she has relationships and connections, but they're not gonna be on board with expanding Obamacare, raising the minimum wage, and anything else she wants to do.
There's a lot of blind HillarySisters in here that fail to realize this.
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Member Since: 11/15/2009
Posts: 16,903
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Just to let y'all know how red my county is, the Democrats had 2,096 ballots, while the Republicans had 20,964 
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Member Since: 7/15/2012
Posts: 35,409
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Quote:
Originally posted by YSL
The fact that you're too dense to understand the fact that someone who is more moderate will have more bipartisan luck than someone who is a socialist makes me question whether or not you should be allowed to vote.
No matter which democrat is elected, they are going to have a hard time getting anything done without a change in Congress itself.
Still, Clinton has a lot of connections and relationships with Congress members that will make it more likely that she'll have support. Do you honestly think someone with decades of influence within the country and globally will not accomplish anything? |
this!
Marv hun you're way TOO innocent in this 
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Member Since: 7/15/2012
Posts: 35,409
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Clinton is probably more hated than Obama. Sure she has relationships and connections, but they're not gonna be on board with expanding Obamacare, raising the minimum wage, and anything else she wants to do.
There's a lot of blind HillarySisters in here that fail to realize this.
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No, you're CONFUSING between the hate on social media by the smear campaign from Bernie supporters and the actual networking that matters in the politics scene
If there's anyone who can compromise with the Republicans, it's Hillary Bernie could never
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by getback
No, you're CONFUSING between the hate on social media by the smear campaign from Bernie supporters and the actual networking that matters in the politics scene
If there's anyone who can compromise with the Republicans, it's Hillary Bernie could never |
She's been hated by the Republicans since the 90s. What?
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Member Since: 7/15/2012
Posts: 35,409
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
She's been hated by the Republicans since the 90s. What?
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And you think the Republicans love Bernie?
Truth is, Hillary's policies are somewhat closer to what the Republicans prefer. Between her and Bernie, who they choose to work with is a no brainer
And ironically, as you say Republicans hate her, many Democrats hate her too because they think she's still too Republican
Anw, I'm not American so I can't vote anyway  It's up to you guys to decide, this is just my 2 cent
I think someone here has said it, Hillary represents the status quo, and Bernie represents the future. But realistically speaking, Hillary is the necessary stepping stone to what Bernie is trying to achieve. Most of what Bernie wants will NEVER come true because they belong to a faraway future
If you think the US can magically transform under Bernie... you're just too idealistic
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Member Since: 8/29/2011
Posts: 18,282
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If Bernie doesn't win Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois, then I think it's practically over for him.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 20,070
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I knew Carrie's home state would go for Bernie
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Member Since: 1/4/2012
Posts: 7,329
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Quote:
Originally posted by YSL
Popular Vote so far, for our conspiracy theorists.
Hillary: 3,740,213
Bernie: 2,379,730 |
Welp
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Member Since: 8/29/2011
Posts: 18,282
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Agreed
Bernie's speeches and ideas have stuck with a lot of people. I mean it's just ridiculous when you realize that nearly every other major country has free healthcare and America still doesn't. It's sad that Hillary used to be for it and now thinks it'll never happen.
I guess it comes down to how much I trust Hillary. Like your professor said, they'll do anything to get elected. Who knows if the promises she's running on this year will actually be her goals while in office. It's hard to know for sure.
I do know that Bernie's impact will live on though I bet single-payer healthcare, campaign finance reform, etc will all be much bigger issues after this presidency. |
My point is I wouldn't completely write Hillary/DNC off as a good option. I mean it's your vote, do you what you want.
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