| |
Celeb News: Emma watson on Beyonce's sexuality and feminism
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,059
|
Quote:
Originally posted by B'Day
This sounds exactly what a white feminist would say.  |
Why is that ? What kinda discrimination tho
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/7/2011
Posts: 6,937
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MM3
While I do think Emma kinda misunderstood Bey's message, she kinda didn't lie with that quote in the OP.
Of course, Bey is allowed to express her sexuality in any way she chooses. But the FACT of the matter is that when a straight guy looks @ her VMA performance, they're not thinking "Omg she's such a strong woman!!1!!!! She owns her sexuality!!11!!!!!". A lot of them are just paying attention to the ass. When straight men watch the Partition video, with Bey dancing on a stripper pole and Jay just sitting there watching with a cigar, do you honestly think they're paying attention to her being a strong woman? And sure, she's allowed to do that for her husband, but I'm just saying, it's not doing anything to destroy those stereotypes. And the VMA performance wasn't for her husband, it was for millions.
I definitely understand Bey's message because I'm able to look at it in an unbiased way since I'm not attracted to her. But I can't say the same for straight men. And if someone like Emma is from the outside looking in, I can see how she would be conflicted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I understand what Bey's intentions are and she does try to strike a balance on the album. |
Thanks for bringing more to the table than the deadbeat atrl classic "she didnt lie" followed by a corny smiley.
While i get where u are comin from but i think what you're omitting is the fact that women/feminists are complex textured creatures. A woman does not have to put on the strong independent front all the time. They can be insecure (pretty hurts)
Angry (bow down)
Sexual (partition)
Naughty (blow)
Nurturing (blue) etc
Her role in Partition video was a bored wife envisioning a sexual fantasy with her husband and it's fine for women to embrace their sexuality too as the aptly placed speech at the end of the song implies
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 40,566
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Mau ®
Bey's feminists messages on BEYONCÉ are conflicting. On "Pretty Hurts" she believes what matters about women is not their bodies or being perfect, yet her "candids" on instagram are photoshopped to an ideal standard.
On another hand she preaches feminism on songs like "***Flawless", but then she releases a remix where not only she uses her sister's brawl with her husband as a freakin' punchline and then welcomes Minaj to diss on other women. Yeah, how feminist of her indeed.
HIVE can scream "White feminism!!!!" all they want, doesn't change the fact that there's basically a rebuttal to every feminist argument Bey has ever presented in her career.
|
The message in Pretty Hurts is what females to do feel pretty, and how society presents this.
This photshopping argument is really a mess. She has like two, and we don't know if she photoshopped them herself. Everything you see is photoshopped. Magazine covers, album covers, single covers, posters. I don't know why some people act like Beyonce is the only person on earth who has uploaded a photoshopped picture. Maybe she's insecure, maybe her team does it for her - or maybe she just wants to. Is it really your problem?
***Flawless remix (the line about elevator gate) is her making fun of the situation, her putting humour into it. And believe me, it's good that she confronted it. Don't lsiten to the song if you don't like it. We have no idea what happened, so we can't say anything really.
So women can't diss other women because of feminism?
Keri Hilson, Keyshia Cole etc have dissed Beyonce and has she said anything? Nicki is FREE to express her anger to any gender she wants. I'm pretty sure men diss each other. Have you ever said anything?
And 'white feminist' mark you said, the Hive is saying this because white feminist are the ones to drag Beyonce. At everything she does. And Emma literally sounds like one of those.
More info:
http://dearwhitefeminists.wordpress.com/
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/31/2012
Posts: 11,016
|
Quote:
Originally posted by rebel
BEST PR EVER......
|
Feminists PR? Seeing that half of the world has a negative view on Feminists. Do better 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 40,566
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Six
Why is that ? What kinda discrimination tho |
Lol, the irony. Of course white feminists are the ones oppressed in society. Silly me.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/31/2012
Posts: 11,016
|
Quote:
Originally posted by PrettyHurts
They just can't understand how Bey had a man as her manager and her husband and STILL made her own decisions  sounds QUITE anti-feminist if I do say so myself  |
That man was her Father at that
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 21,331
|
Quote:
Originally posted by King B
It's very anti-feminist. Just because you're with a man doesn't man you allow yourself to be dictated by him every single moment.
|
A beautiful woman like Beyoncé couldn't POSSIBLY be responsible for her career!!! It must have been concocted by her expert team of men who do everything for her, headed by JAY Z
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 1,415
|
Quote:
Originally posted by B'Day
Lol, the irony. Of course white feminists are the ones oppressed in society. Silly me.
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 13,171
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Bey'Knight
Thanks for bringing more to the table than the deadbeat atrl classic "she didnt lie" followed by a corny smiley.
While i get where u are comin from but i think what you're omitting is the fact that women/feminists are complex textured creatures. A woman does not have to put on the strong independent front all the time. They can be insecure (pretty hurts)
Angry (bow down)
Sexual (partition)
Naughty (blow)
Nurturing (blue) etc
Her role in Partition video was a bored wife envisioning a sexual fantasy with her husband and it's fine for women to embrace their sexuality too as the aptly placed speech at the end of the song implies
|
damn !!! pijbhdjfms,nkbvjfmkndfdj 
the Hive going in with deeper arguments than the so called intelligent Emma
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 5,905
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Iman
they're both from the same interview.
|
Oh in that case I don't really have a huge problem with what she said, which is basically that it was a bit mixed messaging, which is true to some extent. It wasn't some ~uber ***feminazi magnum opus~ from start to finish, it was a popstar who has always aligned herself with some feminist ideals (dating back to Independent Women), making a pop album with some feminist themes (say, 50% strongly feminist themes, 25% stuff that could be interpreted as 3rd wave feminist at a stretch, and 25% having fun in her skin). I think the problem is some people think that by attributing the title "feminist" to someone, she or her stans are trying to put her in the category of Susan B. Anthony or something  She never claimed it to that extent, it's not that serious.
All I can say is that I'm so glad, as a man, I can dress in a way intended to be appealing/provocative, admit that I like being lusted after, and not be called a **** or a bad role model by people like Emma and the "feminist association of the internet" or whatever you call the groups of bloggers/tumblrers etc who sit around judging and denigrating women like Beyoncé.
At any rate, this is why I tend to shy away from discussions involving this topic, and certainly don't claim the title feminist for myself (it carries a certain poison, in the post-tumblr internet age). If anything, I'd call myself a gender equality advocate, and leave it at that. These discussions inevitably devolve into ironic **** shaming from supposed feminists, or in the context of ATRL, male pop stans pretending to give half a **** about women's rights when they really just want to slander pop girls they hate (and while calling them bitches and ****s everywhere else). It's just not honest or productive.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 14,803
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Citrus
ATRL, sit down. Y'all have never TOUCHED a woman, so don't start on the philosophical merits of feminism. A mess.
|
!!! they're also huge hypocrites. its funny how in the thread about lana's bf "supposedly" cheating on her, they were quick to **** shame elena, rita and THEIR MOM. but they said nothing the guy who is in the relationship and "supposedly" cheating.
http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.ph...00069#24200069
also in the thread about a girl being raped by a youtuber, there were comments like this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hey Gurl Hey
don't a lot of females fake being raped to get men in prison, sometimes? I don't believe this for one second. Dumb feminists  |
and a lot of victim blaming
yet, they want to talk about feminism? 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 21,331
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Bey'Knight
Thanks for bringing more to the table than the deadbeat atrl classic "she didnt lie" followed by a corny smiley.
While i get where u are comin from but i think what you're omitting is the fact that women/feminists are complex textured creatures. A woman does not have to put on the strong independent front all the time. They can be insecure (pretty hurts)
Angry (bow down)
Sexual (partition)
Naughty (blow)
Nurturing (blue) etc
Her role in Partition video was a bored wife envisioning a sexual fantasy with her husband and it's fine for women to embrace their sexuality too as the aptly placed speech at the end of the song implies
|
Yes, this! But don't forget how Partition bleeds into another progressive feminist statement, Jealous...in which she flips the script and challenges the double standards that exist because of the patriarchy.....but it doesn't even end there, the twist is that in the end, she realizes she still loves him!!! Genius honestly 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/2/2012
Posts: 15,418
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MM3
While I do think Emma kinda misunderstood Bey's message, she kinda didn't lie with that quote in the OP.
Of course, Bey is allowed to express her sexuality in any way she chooses. But the FACT of the matter is that when a straight guy looks @ her VMA performance, they're not thinking "Omg she's such a strong woman!!1!!!! She owns her sexuality!!11!!!!!". A lot of them are just paying attention to the ass. When straight men watch the Partition video, with Bey dancing on a stripper pole and Jay just sitting there watching with a cigar, do you honestly think they're paying attention to her being a strong woman? And sure, she's allowed to do that for her husband, but I'm just saying, it's not doing anything to destroy those stereotypes. And the VMA performance wasn't for her husband, it was for millions.
I definitely understand Bey's message because I'm able to look at it in an unbiased way since I'm not attracted to her. But I can't say the same for straight men. And if someone like Emma is from the outside looking in, I can see how she would be conflicted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I understand what Bey's intentions are and she does try to strike a balance on the album. |
But why can't a woman want to be appealing to a man and still be taken seriously as a social equal?
I honestly don't think people realize what they're even saying when they question the belief of women that don't fit into a certain category because they admit or behave in ways that indicate that they want to be appealing to their significant others/the opposite sex. Being considered beautiful, sexy, appealing to the opposite sex isn't objectification; it becomes objectification when that is ALL that the woman is and can be seen as. Which ironically is exactly what one is implying when they begin on this whole, "well if you are doing things that appeal to men, you can't possibly believe in the social equality of women" slippery slope.
This is basically saying that a woman can only behave a certain way or dress a certain way to be taken seriously as a person that believes in a woman's social equality. The belief that women have to fit in certain stereotypical roles and behave and dress in certain ways to be heard and taken seriously is problematic. The burden is not on Beyonce or any other woman to dress in burlap sacks to "reverse stereotypes" -- that's not the point of feminism, but feminism has always been warped into this twisted thing of dress a certain way and you'll be taken seriously, speak a certain way and you'll be taken seriously which is entirely antithetical to what feminists actually fight for. Like I said, indoctrination can be difficult to let go of -- even when you know better. And Emma clearly knows better.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 3,391
|
Quote:
Originally posted by B'Day
Is pleasuring your partner really a taboo now?
Rappers - not even exclusively rappers - male artists often portray women as toys.
Listen to Blurred Lines, please.
Whereas Beyonce is in CONTROL (not what a toy does).
Beyonce can dance for her husband, she can act sexual however she pleases. She never mentioned being a toy for her husband, so you sound very ignorant.
|
She can please her husband as much as she likes. I just dont feel her feminism is honest, she doesnt express her sexuality for herself, but for a man. Idk, maybe is the Nasty Girl video/song that still doesnt allow me to see Beyonce as a honest feminist.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 11,555
|
Quote:
Originally posted by IVY
She's right though, Beyonce contradicts herself all the time like how she's singing pretty hurts and then the next day she posts photo-shopped pics on IG that make her look slimmer. That's why the GP can't take Beyonce' feminism seriously.
|
!!!!
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 6,046
|
It wasn't a male voyeuristic experience at all. The videos for songs like Drunk In Love, Partition, and Rocket exhibit Beyoncé showing off to entice her husband, not for the purposes of the male gaze ("I don't need you seeing Yoncé on her knees" and "Driver roll up the partition, please" are lyrics that directly reference my point). It's one of the boldest themes on the album; that Beyoncé can be as raunchy and sexual as she likes even in marriage (which is often conceived as dull), and not be a ""****"".
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/29/2012
Posts: 13,597
|
I think sexuality and feminism are very complicated to go over and it's interpreted differently to everyone. While a woman can be in charge of her sexuality, sometimes it's hard to tell if she's in control or if she's just selling sex. Someone can easily say that Beyonce is in control of her sexuality and is showing it off to empower women while others can say she's a sex object using her sexuality to sell. Where do we draw the line? It's hard to define it. It's a matter of opinion in this case imo.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 4,585
|
Quote:
Originally posted by IVY
She's right though, Beyonce contradicts herself all the time like how she's singing pretty hurts and then the next day she posts photo-shopped pics on IG that make her look slimmer. That's why the GP can't take Beyonce' feminism seriously.
|
This even further proves her point. "Yes even me, Beyonce, feels obligated to change even the smallest things to feel accepted by society. People can tell me I'm the most beautiful woman alive and I will always have insecurities, just like everyone else in the world" Is pretty much was is being said.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Quote:
Originally posted by PULSE.
Notice they ask her about Beyonce being a feminism, it will never be the other way around.
 |
Bam! Now catch that dirt.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/7/2012
Posts: 11,952
|
I agree completely with Emma. No lies spotted. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
