This is not a yes or no matter. I am telling you facts. My education has delved into sexual abuse multiple times. I am well-informed on why abusers commit their acts of abuse. You are simply choosing ignorance at this point. He DID do something wrong whether you want to admit it or not. This is not an opinion. It is a simple fact. There is proof behind what I am saying.
It amazes me when people are so obviously choosing to be ignorant, but they either won't admit it or don't realize it. They may as well be sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
Its the same principle. Youre saying that hs comments assist in "normalizing" rape. Lyrics about drug dealing and killing, by your logic can make going out and killing someone pretty much normal.
Listen Rapists gon Rape, What some guy says on a comedy stage IS NOT going to sway anyone mentally, especially a walking flame bait like Tosh.
Anyway, I think Im like 2 posts away from getting a couple warning points, so I'm gonna stop now.
I do see where youre coming from though.
Actually, it DOES normalize it. Saying you stabbed a mother****er because he ****ed your girl casually in a song normalizes violence but does not cause someone to think "hey let me stab this guy real quick nbd" and then actually go out and do it.
"Rapists gon Rape" Really? I understood your points just fine but I, along with the other two discussing the matter have been trying to point out the errors in that way of thinking but this statement reflects very poorly on you and your character. Not that it affects you or your life in any way but I try to give respect to people I don't know but that statement basically said "Hey, look at me! I'm ignorant and it's not worth it to carry a discussion with me!"
If you haven't yet, you should read lolzjustinwat's post. I think they very clearly explained why that way of thinking is problematic.
It amazes me when people are so obviously choosing to be ignorant, but they either won't admit it or don't realize it. They may as well be sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
That is essentially what is happening right now, and that's why it's so infuriating. Like I said, I have a college education regarding this matter. I know what I am talking about. I am trying to help people out by teaching them things. I have heard with my own ears: "i thought I could get away with it," "I don't see rape as a big deal." I know why abusers do what they do. Listen to me gahdammit.
Actually watched like 5 eps for the first time today of Tosh.o ... He is very rude and racist and such.. Really dislike him.. And I'm 17.. I'd rather Rob Dyrdek anyways.. He's cool and actually funny..
I wonder if people who think this was okay would feel the same way if the "joke" had been directed at their mother, sister, girlfriend, wife?
Anyways the "joke" wasn't funny. Point blank. I wonder how much further this envelope is going to be pushed. It seems like it doesn't matter how completely innappropriate something is nowadays, voicing your disapproval of it will get you called "over sensitive" and you'll be told to "lighten up". With all of these celebrity comedians trying to normalize things like "It'd be so funny if five guys raped you right now" , I can imagine in a few years the types of jokes that will be considered okay in comedy clubs because people just keep letting these idiots get away with everything.
This is not a yes or no matter. I am telling you facts. My education has delved into sexual abuse multiple times. I am well-informed on why abusers commit their acts of abuse. You are simply choosing ignorance at this point. He DID do something wrong whether you want to admit it or not. This is not an opinion. It is a simple fact. There is proof behind what I am saying.
Quote:
Originally posted by Twai
It amazes me when people are so obviously choosing to be ignorant, but they either won't admit it or don't realize it. They may as well be sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
What the **** are you guys talking about? Do I need to make a separate thread and put the title in all caps saying "I DO NOT AGREE WITH WHAT HE SAID." Just cause I don't have a huge ass tree branch up my ass and I understand that not every joke is automatically interpreted to "it's okay for me to do this now!" Why not criticize those who blame the victims for getting raped? Or those that look down on women as objects? But no, you guys choose to bitch about those who support someone to say what they want in HIS comedy show and when he SARCASTICALLY made an ironic joke to someone who was deliberately shouting/arguing with him in the middle of his show.
He was wrong only in directing such a harsh joke at her.
But other than that, it's gray area. You perceiving it as black and white doesn't make it so.
Except there are facts backing up what I'm saying. A person can choose to believe that it wasn't wrong, but when it indirectly leads to something they believe is wrong, it's wrong. So the only people who can find his actions right are people who would condone rape, and I don't think anyone on here would do that.
What the **** are you guys talking about? Do I need to make a separate thread and put the title in all caps saying "I DO NOT AGREE WITH WHAT HE SAID." Just cause I don't have a huge ass tree branch up my ass and I understand that not every joke is automatically interpreted to "it's okay for me to do this now!" Why not criticize those who blame the victims for getting raped? Or those that look down on women as objects? But no, you guys choose to bitch about those who support someone to say what they want in HIS comedy show and when he SARCASTICALLY made an ironic joke to someone who was deliberately shouting/arguing with him in the middle of his show.
I have explained to you over and over that I know you do not agree with the act of rape, but by supporting his actions, you are fueling rape-culture. If you don't understand what we're saying, you should research. You would look a lot less immature. And actually, dear, I do bitch at people who blame victims (look back a few pages), and I do bitch at people who view women as objects. But this thread is about Daniel Tosh and his actions.
Actually watched like 5 eps for the first time today of Tosh.o ... He is very rude and racist and such.. Really dislike him.. And I'm 17.. I'd rather Rob Dyrdek anyways.. He's cool and actually funny..
I feel like someone like Louis CK does rude/racial/violent humor very well. He understands nuance, and so his jokes often become about where "the line" is, and how far and how it's acceptable to cross it, etc.
He's not just standing on stage saying "LOL LOOK AT ME, I'M SAYING OFFENSIVE ****! NOW LAUGH BECAUSE IT'S OFFENSIVE!"
That is essentially what is happening right now, and that's why it's so infuriating. Like I said, I have a college education regarding this matter. I know what I am talking about. I am trying to help people out by teaching them things. I have heard with my own ears: "i thought I could get away with it," "I don't see rape as a big deal." I know why abusers do what they do. Listen to me gahdammit.
Quote:
Originally posted by lolzjustinwat
I have explained to you over and over that I know you do not agree with the act of rape, but by supporting his actions, you are fueling rape-culture. If you don't understand what we're saying, you should research. You would look a lot less immature. And actually, dear, I do bitch at people who blame victims (look back a few pages), and I do bitch at people who view women as objects. But this thread is about Daniel Tosh and his actions.
I'm gonna be honest, I wouldn't give a **** if you went to ****ing Harvard and majored in ATRL arguments about Daniel Tosh rape joke arguments. That does not automatically make your opinion right. You have to consider the damn scenario. If he was broadcasting that live to the two-two and a half million viewers that watch his show weekly, it'd be a completely different story. But like I said, it was HIS show in a COMEDY CLUB to ironically respond to someone bitching about his show. He responded in his smartass and, quite frankly, slightly offensive way. It happens. If I'm ignorant just cause of your college education, well ****. But I haven't seen ONE source of evidence from you in the midst of everything you're saying but you continue to call it "fact" and "not an opinion." This is all branching off of psychology and the debate of if they're giving the person the ability to feel right about what they're doing. How the **** is it not opinion? Psychology is based so much on speculation and theory it's ridiculous. So until I see legitimate, undeniable sources telling me explicitly that I am wrong, I don't want to hear how I'm being ignorant and ****.
I'm gonna be honest, I wouldn't give a **** if you went to ****ing Harvard and majored in ATRL arguments about Daniel Tosh rape joke arguments. That does not automatically make your opinion right. You have to consider the damn scenario. If he was broadcasting that live to the two-two and a half million viewers that watch his show weekly, it'd be a completely different story. But like I said, it was HIS show in a COMEDY CLUB to ironically respond to someone bitching about his show. He responded in his smartass and, quite frankly, slightly offensive way. It happens. If I'm ignorant just cause of your college education, well ****. But I haven't seen ONE source of evidence from you in the midst of everything you're saying but you continue to call it "fact" and "not an opinion." This is all branching off of psychology and the debate of if they're giving the person the ability to feel right about what they're doing. How the **** is it not opinion? Psychology is based so much on speculation and theory it's ridiculous. So until I see legitimate, undeniable sources telling me explicitly that I am wrong, I don't want to hear how I'm being ignorant and ****.
This actually isn't about psychology at all. This is about men testifying in court saying why they abused their victims. If you'd like to watch the documentaries, you are more than welcome to apply to my college and take the courses with the professors I've had. I'm sure you could learn a lot. But unfortunately, I don't have the names of these documentaries memorized, so I can't provide you with the videos. But do you distrust your doctor for giving you a diagnosis even though he hasn't shown you hard evidence from a book? No because it's impossible for a person to remember the source of every single piece of information they learned throughout their career. As I've said, I am giving you facts, whether you choose to take them or not is up to you. Denying them would be quite sad though.
Except there are facts backing up what I'm saying. A person can choose to believe that it wasn't wrong, but when it indirectly leads to something they believe is wrong, it's wrong. So the only people who can find his actions right are people who would condone rape, and I don't think anyone on here would do that.
This only means we're toying with a slippery slope fallacy. Why someone chooses to go out and kill others, take their own lives, rape, commit battery, etc. can only be accurately linked to the thing that directly caused it. This "indirectly" argument is a house built on sand. If you believe him joking about rape contributes to actual cases of rape, that's a perfectly fine position to take, but it doesn't make it FACT. Like I said, it's a gray area whether you like it or not.
And, just to get this out of the way, can we also agree that Daniel Tosh is not as funny as most people make him out as? Rob Dyrdek is much funnier than him and he isn't a comedian, yet he's doing the same **** Tosh is doing on Comedy Central.
This actually isn't about psychology at all. This is about men testifying in court saying why they abused their victims. If you'd like to watch the documentaries, you are more than welcome to apply to my college and take the courses with the professors I've had. I'm sure you could learn a lot. But unfortunately, I don't have the names of these documentaries memorized, so I can't provide you with the videos. But do you distrust your doctor for giving you a diagnosis even though he hasn't shown you hard evidence from a book? No because it's impossible for a person to remember the source of every single piece of information they learned throughout their career. As I've said, I am giving you facts, whether you choose to take them or not is up to you. Denying them would be quite sad though.
What on Earth are you talking about? How is this not about psychology? The whole issue is whether or not these sort of jokes give offenders the feeling of approval from society.
This only means we're toying with a slippery slope fallacy. Why someone chooses to go out and kill others, take their own lives, rape, commit battery, etc. can only be accurately linked to the thing that directly caused it. This "indirectly" argument is a house built on sand. If you believe him joking about rape contributes to actual cases of rape, that's a perfectly fine position to take, but it doesn't make it FACT. Like I said, it's a gray area whether you like it or not.
But see, this is where we are going to disagree. Committing an act like rape, murder, etc. can never be linked to one direct cause. You have to infer from the indirect causes as best you can. The influence of rape-culture is an indirect cause. If you do not condone the act of rape, you're not going to condone something that led to the event, be it direct or indirect.
It should be noted that this is veering off topic into critical thinking and logical fallacies now though, so we may want to wrap this soon.
What on Earth are you talking about? How is this not about psychology? The whole issue is whether or not these sort of jokes give offenders the feeling of approval from society.
I'm talking about my "evidence." Obviously psychology is involved in every single human thought and action.