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Discussion: Michael Jackson's Dangerous (25th Anniversary)
Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Originally posted by Nemo
Currently listening in full! Happy 25th-year anniversary to this masterpiece.
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Me too.
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,608
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Quote:
Originally posted by PrinceMichaelFan
These are comments are due to it being a new album, I think over time this album possibly like many albums became loved. Critics will easily try to tear down his material post Thriller just because it's the norm.
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Slant wrote a piece on the album and it's VERY dissatisfying and I'm coming for them in the comments section.
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Quote:
Originally posted by Humoresque
Slant wrote a piece on the album and it's VERY dissatisfying and I'm coming for them in the comments section.
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Send me the link
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,608
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http://www.slantmagazine.com/house/a...erous-turns-25
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Even before everything started to go really wrong for Michael Jackson, Dangerous emerged as something of a harbinger of end times. The official Rolling Stone-canonical version of events holds that the ouster of Jackson's new-jack album from the top of the Billboard charts in favor of Nirvana's Nevermind signaled the unmistakable death knell for the 1980s and the arrival of the '90s. Never mind that both albums were certified blockbusters, as was the release that supplanted Nirvana the very next week: Garth Brooks's Ropin' the Wind. The sense at the time, amid the unprecedented promotional push for Jackson's latest effort and its analogous chart performance, was that the crown was slipping from the king of pop's fingers.
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Dangerous ups the stakes while cunningly inverting Jackson’s playbook. Here, the teacher becomes the student, and over the course of 77 unruly minutes, painstakingly shows his work. Jackson was reportedly inspired by the industrial beats Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis unleashed on Janet’s Rhythm Nation 1814. And whether or not he was aware that the sun was setting on the era where Miles Davis could cover “Human Nature” and get played in dentists’ waiting rooms nationwide, in focusing the majority of Dangerous around what was then still the hot new sound in R& B, he made a conscious decision to follow the dictates of the marketplace, rather than set them.
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With the help of new jack swing’s inherently exaggerated byplay between the sweet and sour traditions of R& B music, Dangerous allowed Jackson a chance to really marinate in the potential of artistic paranoia, to at least fitfully slip out of his eagerness to please. He couldn’t completely commit, though, as “Heal the World” and “Will You Be There” were both notably ripped from the same UNICEF instruction book as “Man in the Mirror,” but without that song’s mitigating synthesis of altruism and self-love. And, given the context, the gospel-lifted platitudes of “Keep the Faith” are rendered hauntingly hollow: “Straighten out yourself and get your mind on track/Dust off your butt and get your self-respect back.”
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It’s difficult, however, to imagine Jackson at any earlier stage in his career not only conceptualizing, but so passionately giving himself over to a song that so fully lives up to its album’s title as “In the Closet.” Or in any previous cycle of promotion putting his chips on a song as beaten down and depressive as “Who Is It” for release as a single. Jackson had always been an emotionally open book, but in the past he was more preemptive about directing listeners to the chapters he figured they would object to the least. Here, though, the 14-track set was positively littered with the embarrassment, shame, betrayal, and obsession that would sadly overwhelm the rest of his career and life. The performer who was once literally burned in the name of cashing a paycheck willingly played with fire on as public a stage as anyone ever attempted.
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Quote:
Originally posted by Humoresque
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Not slant calling it underrated a complete skull drag alone. Not the BAD drag tho.
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,608
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Quote:
Originally posted by PrinceMichaelFan
Not slant calling it underrated a complete skull drag alone. Not the BAD drag tho.
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Quote:
With the help of new jack swing’s inherently exaggerated byplay between the sweet and sour traditions of R& B music, Dangerous allowed Jackson a chance to really marinate in the potential of artistic paranoia, to at least fitfully slip out of his eagerness to please.
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They don't even follow up on this They immediately go into "buuuut then he did these UNICEF songs" There's always a "but" with his post-eighties efforts, sadly.
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Currently in tears at Will You Be There
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Quote:
Originally posted by Humoresque
They don't even follow up on this They immediately go into "buuuut then he did these UNICEF songs" There's always a "but" with his post-eighties efforts, sadly.
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And that's an issue I have with critics/media, they assume an album is astounding just because of it's record sales, but in fact when he does records without the man who made him sell millions of units (Quincy Jones) it seems as if his material isn't good or he's a shell of his former sell musically. It's complete and utter trash to say the least.
I am not knocking down Thriller or Bad, but I am tired of people knocking down DANGEROUS/HIStory because it didn't contain Quincy Jones.
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,608
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Quote:
Originally posted by PrinceMichaelFan
And that's an issue I have with critics/media, they assume an album is astounding just because of it's record sales, but in fact when he does records without the man who made him sell millions of units (Quincy Jones) it seems as if his material isn't good or he's a shell of his former sell musically. It's complete and utter trash to say the least.
I am not knocking down Thriller or Bad, but I am tired of people knocking down DANGEROUS/HIStory because it didn't contain Quincy Jones.
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Definitely. Off The Wall, Thriller, and Bad deserve their accolades. The evaluation of his work tends to stop here. Time Magazine wrote following his death that "given the tumult in his personal life, it's no surprise that the 1990s were a barren period for Jackson creatively."
He put out more music and more videos and gave more concerts during this decade than he did during the 1980s. And that music was the most challenging and bold and experimental of his career. How can anyone say the period was barren for him? And why is personal tumult such an artistic boon for Kurt Cobain but not Michael Jackson?
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Quote:
Originally posted by Humoresque
Definitely. Off The Wall, Thriller, and Bad deserve their accolades. The evaluation of his work tends to stop here. Time Magazine wrote following his death that "given the tumult in his personal life, it's no surprise that the 1990s were a barren period for Jackson creatively."
He put out more music and more videos and gave more concerts during this decade than he did during the 1980s. And that music was the most challenging and bold and experimental of his career. How can anyone say the period was barren for him? And why is personal tumult such an artistic boon for Kurt Cobain but not Michael Jackson?
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I'm telling people only based that opinion, because of his Child molestation charges and Record sales from Thriller (They even dragged BAD).
Michael did indeed do more in the 1990s, and that's because everyone in the 1980s had the advantage of not being able to appear on shows frequently to promote. Most pop stars didn't appear much, but the 1990s were a different decade, and you notice most of the 1980s pop stars started to appear more frequently on award shows, talk shows, etc.
Because Kurt is a White Man who was allowed to have issues in his life while the media/fans allow it to be an artist style for him, but Michael was the weirdo due to his skin condition and other subjects.
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,608
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Quote:
Originally posted by PrinceMichaelFan
I'm telling people only based that opinion, because of his Child molestation charges and Record sales from Thriller (They even dragged BAD).
Michael did indeed do more in the 1990s, and that's because everyone in the 1980s had the advantage of not being able to appear on shows frequently to promote. Most pop stars didn't appear much, but the 1990s were a different decade, and you notice most of the 1980s pop stars started to appear more frequently on award shows, talk shows, etc.
Because Kurt is a White Man who was allowed to have issues in his life while the media/fans allow it to be an artist style for him, but Michael was the weirdo due to his skin condition and other subjects.
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A great line from Spin: "Many of the attacks came from white rock critics who suddenly seemed to resent his unparalleled success. Jackson didn't fit the model for rock-critic idolatry. Someone like Bruce Springsteen plays the guitar, writes songs that are subject to literary criticism, and dances like a white guy. Whereas Michael Jackson represents a black cultural heritage that white critics either don't know about or would rather appreciate nostalgically from someone who's dead."
Michael's unapologetic stance as an all-embracing figure who wanted the whole world listening to his music also got him labeled as purely commercial by many critics. But they didn't see him in the studio telling collaborators he wanted "sounds the human ear has never heard". They ignored the way his music began to incorporate industrial elements, grandiose orchestral pop, Beethoven symphonies, rap; the way his thematic palette became more and more varied with each album; how he channeled his anger and passion into his work with greater clarity and specificity - that makes his catalog unique; his work is his autobiography.
That hard work and restless creative ambition should be congratulated. Instead, people who don't bother to listen to any of these works are often content to just shrug their shoulders and say, "well, it's no Thriller." Michael Jackson might be the artist who most suffers from the two opposing sensibilities of "just because it sold well, doesn't make it good" and "well it didn't sell as well as that other one, so it must not be as good."
Look at me, I'm getting heated now.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 2,457
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Quote:
Originally posted by Humoresque
A great line from Spin: "Many of the attacks came from white rock critics who suddenly seemed to resent his unparalleled success. Jackson didn't fit the model for rock-critic idolatry. Someone like Bruce Springsteen plays the guitar, writes songs that are subject to literary criticism, and dances like a white guy. Whereas Michael Jackson represents a black cultural heritage that white critics either don't know about or would rather appreciate nostalgically from someone who's dead."
Michael's unapologetic stance as an all-embracing figure who wanted the whole world listening to his music also got him labeled as purely commercial by many critics. But they didn't see him in the studio telling collaborators he wanted "sounds the human ear has never heard". They ignored the way his music began to incorporate industrial elements, grandiose orchestral pop, Beethoven symphonies, rap; the way his thematic palette became more and more varied with each album; how he channeled his anger and passion into his work with greater clarity and specificity - that makes his catalog unique; his work is his autobiography.
That hard work and restless creative ambition should be congratulated. Instead, people who don't bother to listen to any of these works are often content to just shrug their shoulders and say, "well, it's no Thriller." Michael Jackson might be the artist who most suffers from the two opposing sensibilities of "just because it sold well, doesn't make it good" and "well it didn't sell as well as that other one, so it must not be as good."
Look at me, I'm getting heated now.
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I absolutely love these quotes. I need to bookmark the first one.
I think after today and a lot of thought i've officially narrowed down my two favorite MJ albums to Off The Wall and Dangerous.
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Quote:
Originally posted by Humoresque
A great line from Spin: "Many of the attacks came from white rock critics who suddenly seemed to resent his unparalleled success. Jackson didn't fit the model for rock-critic idolatry. Someone like Bruce Springsteen plays the guitar, writes songs that are subject to literary criticism, and dances like a white guy. Whereas Michael Jackson represents a black cultural heritage that white critics either don't know about or would rather appreciate nostalgically from someone who's dead."
Michael's unapologetic stance as an all-embracing figure who wanted the whole world listening to his music also got him labeled as purely commercial by many critics. But they didn't see him in the studio telling collaborators he wanted "sounds the human ear has never heard". They ignored the way his music began to incorporate industrial elements, grandiose orchestral pop, Beethoven symphonies, rap; the way his thematic palette became more and more varied with each album; how he channeled his anger and passion into his work with greater clarity and specificity - that makes his catalog unique; his work is his autobiography.
That hard work and restless creative ambition should be congratulated. Instead, people who don't bother to listen to any of these works are often content to just shrug their shoulders and say, "well, it's no Thriller." Michael Jackson might be the artist who most suffers from the two opposing sensibilities of "just because it sold well, doesn't make it good" and "well it didn't sell as well as that other one, so it must not be as good."
Look at me, I'm getting heated now.
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I see, you're getting very heated
It's probably because a Black Man had the highest selling album of all time, and some can't fathom that it isn't Beatles, Elvis, Bruce, or Garth Brooks Poor them.
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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I would appreciate Michael more if he went into a different direction as an artist instead of ripping him down due to the possibilities that he didn't want to continue work with Quincy.
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Member Since: 4/28/2012
Posts: 37,654
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What is everybody's:
- Favorite Dangerous track?
- Dangerous holy trinity?
Lemme think hard about this as I watch other people answer bc it sure ain't easy. :wee[s:
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,608
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Garth Brooks albums are monstrously overcertified. I think his highest-selling SoundScan album sold something like 9 million copies and there's no way even music club sales are going to push it up to the 16x, 17x, and 18x platinum certifications that were acquired for some of his releases.
But then the RIAA is a strange beast; do we need to discuss HIStory?
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nemo
What is everybody's:
- Favorite Dangerous track?
- Dangerous holy trinity?
Lemme think hard about this as I watch other people answer bc it sure ain't easy. :wee[s:
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Favorite Track:
Can't Let Her Get Away
Holy Trinity:
Who is It?
Keep The Faith
Remember The Time
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 13,378
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Quote:
Originally posted by Humoresque
Garth Brooks albums are monstrously overcertified. I think his highest-selling SoundScan album sold something like 9 million copies and there's no way even music club sales are going to push it up to the 16x, 17x, and 18x platinum certifications that were acquired for some of his releases.
But then the RIAA is a strange beast; do we need to discuss HIStory?
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We will not discuss the white devil of RIAA at this present time
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HIStory, oh? Why not.
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,608
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nemo
What is everybody's:
- Favorite Dangerous track?
- Dangerous holy trinity?
Lemme think hard about this as I watch other people answer bc it sure ain't easy. :wee[s:
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Alright, my favorite Dangerous track overall would have to be Will You Be There. It's my favorite Michael song all-around. But if we're talking about non-singles, it's the title song.
My trinity would be Will You Be There, Remember The Time, and...... oh God. Black or White is such an incredible pop moment but it's sunk by that rap. The title track has really become a close friend in the past year and I groove to it HARD. But then there's Who Is It and how do I say 'no' to that song? The struggle is so real on this one.
I feel like I answered this easily just a few weeks ago but now everything feels so complicated I'm so confused today, this morning the sun was over on that part of the sky and now it's all the way over here, I have no idea what to think anymore
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