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ATRL: Would Aaliyah have ever flopped?
Member Since: 8/16/2011
Posts: 3,588
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lately 1814
Yes, she would have flopped.
As someone who grew up in the 90s, Aaliyah was the lesser of the R&B teen queen trio - Brandy, Monica, Aaliyah. She was the lesser then, and she would have been the lesser in the 00s. Her music didn't have crossover appeal, hence why she only managed to notch 3 or 4 top ten hits on the Hot 100, while her peers had twice that amount in the 90s with the same amount of albums released. Consequently, she wouldn't have survived the rise of Beyonce or Alicia Keys. Comparing Aaliyah to either of them is stupid. She's not as talented as Beyonce or Alicia, a good of a singer as Beyonce, or instrumentalist as Alicia. She didn't even write her own material. She was a decent dancer, which I find odd being that she has named Janet as her biggest influence.
Her sales were always dismal. Her highest certification in 2x platinum, while her peers have gone 3 and 4 times platinum. And lest we not forget it took her debut 7 years to go 2x platinum, and it wasn't certified 2x platinum until AFTER she died. And in even in the wake of her death, she only managed to sell about 4 million albums. Odd how an untimely death didn't spark a dramatic sales hike, and even still she didn't manage to outsell Brandy's 8 million+ albums sold in the US per Soundscan.
That being said, in this day and age, she would have only been relevant on the R&B charts, which isn't bad. She wouldn't have been popular comparably with the big acts - Beyonce, Katy, Rihanna, Gaga, Xtina, Britney, etc. The type of music she put out never reached the masses for the aforementioned reasons. With her sales already wavering around platinum and double platinum in the 90s, she definitely would have been struggling in the 00s with the rise of piracy and the digital market.
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There is so much truth in this
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Member Since: 6/1/2010
Posts: 65,177
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Several of Aaliyah's singles weren't released for sale and that's why she doesn't have that many top 10 hits like her peers.
"Are You That Somebody," for example, peaked at #21 on the Hot 100 after the airplay-only rule was changed. It could have been a top 10 hit based on airplay only. "Try Again" went to #1 just based on airplay. I don't think people should use her lack of top 10 hits against her when her label barely sent out physical singles, just like Britney.
Album sales are totally something else, though.
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Member Since: 4/30/2009
Posts: 4,574
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lately 1814
Yes, she would have flopped.
As someone who grew up in the 90s, Aaliyah was the lesser of the R&B teen queen trio - Brandy, Monica, Aaliyah. She was the lesser then, and she would have been the lesser in the 00s. Her music didn't have crossover appeal, hence why she only managed to notch 3 or 4 top ten hits on the Hot 100, while her peers had twice that amount in the 90s with the same amount of albums released. Consequently, she wouldn't have survived the rise of Beyonce or Alicia Keys. Comparing Aaliyah to either of them is stupid. She's not as talented as Beyonce or Alicia, a good of a singer as Beyonce, or instrumentalist as Alicia. She didn't even write her own material. She was a decent dancer, which I find odd being that she has named Janet as her biggest influence.
Her sales were always dismal. Her highest certification in 2x platinum, while her peers have gone 3 and 4 times platinum. And lest we not forget it took her debut 7 years to go 2x platinum, and it wasn't certified 2x platinum until AFTER she died. And in even in the wake of her death, she only managed to sell about 4 million albums. Odd how an untimely death didn't spark a dramatic sales hike, and even still she didn't manage to outsell Brandy's 8 million+ albums sold in the US per Soundscan.
That being said, in this day and age, she would have only been relevant on the R&B charts, which isn't bad. She wouldn't have been popular comparably with the big acts - Beyonce, Katy, Rihanna, Gaga, Xtina, Britney, etc. The type of music she put out never reached the masses for the aforementioned reasons. With her sales already wavering around platinum and double platinum in the 90s, she definitely would have been struggling in the 00s with the rise of piracy and the digital market.
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So much one sided opinions it's ridiculous.
Brandy was huge in the 90's, can't knock that, but to be realistic, Aaliyah and Monica were on the same level. About even. And lets NOT act like Aaliyah's album wasn;t selling better than Full Moon and Monica's after the storm in the 2000's. Aaliyahs career was progressing alot better than those two once the 90's was over.
If you would have done your research, you would know that Monica's albums were overcertified, Her debut sold the same amount of copies as Aaliyah's debut, And Aaliyah's second album sold just as many copies as Monica's second album with half of the promotion and HALF of the hit singles. Not to mention, Aaliyah's singles did far better than Monica's ever did overseas. The reason why Aaliyah's first album didnt sell that well was because of the whole R.kelly drama which hurted sales ALOT and they had to pull the plug on the whole project which was why the album had over 6 singles but only 3 videos. and cut televised promotion. You claim you grew up in the 90's but some of your facts proof otherwise.
Aaliyah had only a few top 10's because most of her singles couldn't chart on the hot 100 (back then airplay singles could NOT chart on the hot 100), but On the airplay chart's equivalent (the hot 100 airplay) All of her singles did well on there.
And why are you comparing her to Alicia and Beyonce saying she's not as talented? Aaliyah died before her talent reached it's full potential. No shade to Beyonce at ALL, but when Beyonce and Aaliyah were in the same age bracket, Beyonce was NOT the phenomenol performer that she is today. Alicia keys plays instruments, And Aaliyah was a dancer. So how was she not as talented when she could do some things better than Alicia?
And also, going double platinum is NEVER dismisal (unless your Madonna or something). Just because it was the 90's doesnt mean that any album that came out was guranteed to go 10x diamond. There were artists who STILL flopped in the 90's that still didnt achieve what Aaliyah did. What logic were you trying there? That was weak.
Aaliyah's album after death was STILL selling, Her last album was on the chart for almost 250 massive weeks. But again, if you would have done your research instead of just gazing on wikipedia, you would know that her albums are now out of print because Aaliyah's mother didn't want labels to profit from her death.
For all you know, how do you know Aaliyah's 4th album wouldn't be filled with massive pop hits along the lines of "Try Again"? Or how do you know songs like "Promiscuous girl" Or "My Love" wouldn't have been Aaliyah's? How do you know?
Y'all try so hard to make it seem like Aaliyah was a major flop like Cassie or Nivea or something.
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Member Since: 11/2/2009
Posts: 19,838
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I remember reading an Aaliyah biography book where they even said the poor girl was on the decline and Alicia Keys was the death of her career.
So yeah, I think she's be in Monica's boat now (to say Ciara or even Brandy is too harsh).
Altho I like the point one of the posters made about her getting Nelly Furtado's hits.
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Member Since: 4/30/2009
Posts: 4,574
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Quote:
Originally posted by La Musique
I remember reading an Aaliyah biography book where they even said the poor girl was on the decline and Alicia Keys was the death of her career.
So yeah, I think she's be in Monica's boat now (to say Ciara or even Brandy is too harsh).
Altho I like the point one of the posters made about her getting Nelly Furtado's hits. |
Alicia Keys pretty much slayed everyone that year. So I dont see the logic in that. How was her career on the decline when She got the highest first week sales of her career? WNAR was a bomb (it obviously wasn't a song that would be a hit anyway, it was too left field), but Her album was selling better than her last 2.
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Member Since: 4/30/2009
Posts: 4,574
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Quote:
Originally posted by RyanC
No she would not have flopped.
Aaliyah was not on the decline. If anything, her career was just getting ready to take out when she met her untimely demise. For people to try and act like Aaliyah would have been this irrelevant star is outrageous. She had the love and support of the R&B/Urban crowd and had successfully crossed over into the pop world. She was getting movie offers, award hosting opportunities and was set for major superstardom. Aaliyah made it possible for women like Rihanna, Ciara, and others to make that successful crossover.
I don't hold Aaliyah in the same boat as Monica & Brandy. Monica and Brandy were singers in a different category IMO. Aaliyah to me was the black Britney. Sure she had contemporaries who were vocally more talented, but they weren't able to put it all together the way Aaliyah could. There was something about her that her peers weren't able to touch. Aaliyah would have been able to re-invent herself as time went on, the same way Britney has.
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! I agree.
Aaliyah changed and evolved every album she put out. And judging by her last album, she was moving towards the pop direction anyway.
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Member Since: 4/29/2011
Posts: 6,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lasers
So much one sided opinions it's ridiculous.
Brandy was huge in the 90's, can't knock that, but to be realistic, Aaliyah and Monica were on the same level. About even.
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No they weren't. I grew up in the 90s and I can vouch that Brandy was vastly more popular than Monica and Aaliyah. If you don't believe me, check their 90s stats.
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And lets NOT act like Aaliyah's album wasn;t selling better than Full Moon and Monica's after the storm in the 2000's. Aaliyahs career was progressing alot better than those two once the 90's was over.
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Yeah, because she died. That album was off to a slow start. Atlantic was not ready for "....Resolution" to under perform at radio. Hence why "Rock The Boat" was rush released. Once she died, sales picked up shortly thereafter.
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If you would have done your research, you would know that Monica's albums were overcertified, Her debut sold the same amount of copies as Aaliyah's debut, And Aaliyah's second album sold just as many copies as Monica's second album with half of the promotion and HALF of the hit singles. Not to mention, Aaliyah's singles did far better than Monica's ever did overseas. The reason why Aaliyah's first album didnt sell that well was because of the whole R.kelly drama which hurted sales ALOT and they had to pull the plug on the whole project which was why the album had over 6 singles but only 3 videos. and cut televised promotion. You claim you grew up in the 90's but some of your facts proof otherwise.
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Comparing their sales NOW is stupid because Aaliyah's sales benefited from an untimely death. If you focus on their 90s certifications, Monica was selling better. Her debut took 3 years to go 3x platinum, while it took Aaliyah's debut 7 years to go 2x platinum and it was certified as a result of her death from consumers buying her album. It took Aaliyah's second album 10 months to achieve its highest certification - 2x platinum, same length as Monica's. However, Monica's follow up went on to 3x platinum. Which means there was more interest in Monica at the time.
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Aaliyah had only a few top 10's because most of her singles couldn't chart on the hot 100 (back then airplay singles could NOT chart on the hot 100), but On the airplay chart's equivalent (the hot 100 airplay) All of her singles did well on there.
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When labels don't release a commercial product for a single, that typically indicates that they're pushing for album sales. Unfortunately, Aaliyah's albums did not sell because there was no interest in her. She was not THAT popular. No Doubt didn't release an commercial product for "Don't Speak" and they sat at #1 on the airplay charts for 16 weeks and their Tragic Kingdom album went diamond. What's Aaliyah's excuse? With radio being the #1 form of promotion and the objective of a single is the promote the album, Aaliyah HAS no excuse. Nobody was checking for her like you think.
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And why are you comparing her to Alicia and Beyonce saying she's not as talented? Aaliyah died before her talent reached it's full potential. No shade to Beyonce at ALL, but when Beyonce and Aaliyah were in the same age bracket, Beyonce was NOT the phenomenol performer that she is today. Alicia keys plays instruments, And Aaliyah was a dancer. So how was she not as talented when she could do some things better than Alicia?
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If you compare their talents during their debuts and respective subsequent efforts, Beyonce and Alicia were definitely more talented than her. Aaliyah couldn't do anything as simple as to write her own material. Aaliyah at 20 was not a better vocalist than Beyonce at 20. Aaliyah at 20 was not as talented as Alicia who wrote her entire album by herself including lyrics, musical composition, arranging, and producing her own music.
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And also, going double platinum is NEVER dismisal (unless your Madonna or something). Just because it was the 90's doesnt mean that any album that came out was guranteed to go 10x diamond. There were artists who STILL flopped in the 90's that still didnt achieve what Aaliyah did. What logic were you trying there? That was weak.
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When your peers are going 3, 4, and 5 times platinum, you should at least be in the same ball park. Not trailing behind with half the total. And as you stated Aaliyah's singles weren't put on sale, that's all the more reason WHY Aaliyah's sales should be higher because that means you HAD to purchase her album if you wanted the songs.
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Aaliyah's album after death was STILL selling, Her last album was on the chart for almost 250 massive weeks. But again, if you would have done your research instead of just gazing on wikipedia, you would know that her albums are now out of print because Aaliyah's mother didn't want labels to profit from her death.
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Girl bye, Aaliyah was on the BB200 for 188 weeks, not 250. And the only reason why that album has 188 chart weeks is because Billboard combined the chart run of Aaliyah and I Care 4 U as the former took its final bow off the charts the week of November 16, 2002. The album reentered the charts at #3 the week of December 28, 2002. Oh, and the album originally debuted at #2 behind which album? Songs In A Minor.
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For all you know, how do you know Aaliyah's 4th album wouldn't be filled with massive pop hits along the lines of "Try Again"? Or how do you know songs like "Promiscuous girl" Or "My Love" wouldn't have been Aaliyah's? How do you know?
Y'all try so hard to make it seem like Aaliyah was a major flop like Cassie or Nivea or something.
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It wasn't going to happen because she was never a mass crossover artist. She wouldn't have been successful over Ashanti's debut, Beyonce's debut, or Alicia's follow up. Nobody is saying she's a flop, but to say she would have never flopped is ridiculous. EVERY artist has a flop album at some point in their career. Ain't nobody exempt from the laws of gravity.
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Member Since: 4/30/2009
Posts: 4,574
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You totally ignored everything about what I said, but whatever. I'll debate this later. I have to go to school
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Member Since: 4/2/2011
Posts: 1,331
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aaliyah actually was big but lets not kid ourselves never as big as brandy !!!
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Member Since: 5/21/2010
Posts: 762
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lately 1814
When labels don't release a commercial product for a single, that typically indicates that they're pushing for album sales.
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Her label was slick for that.
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Member Since: 4/30/2009
Posts: 4,574
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lately 1814
No they weren't. I grew up in the 90s and I can vouch that Brandy was vastly more popular than Monica and Aaliyah. If you don't believe me, check their 90s stats.
Yeah, because she died. That album was off to a slow start. Atlantic was not ready for "....Resolution" to under perform at radio. Hence why "Rock The Boat" was rush released. Once she died, sales picked up shortly thereafter.
Comparing their sales NOW is stupid because Aaliyah's sales benefited from an untimely death. If you focus on their 90s certifications, Monica was selling better. Her debut took 3 years to go 3x platinum, while it took Aaliyah's debut 7 years to go 2x platinum and it was certified as a result of her death from consumers buying her album. It took Aaliyah's second album 10 months to achieve its highest certification - 2x platinum, same length as Monica's. However, Monica's follow up went on to 3x platinum. Which means there was more interest in Monica at the time.
When labels don't release a commercial product for a single, that typically indicates that they're pushing for album sales. Unfortunately, Aaliyah's albums did not sell because there was no interest in her. She was not THAT popular. No Doubt didn't release an commercial product for "Don't Speak" and they sat at #1 on the airplay charts for 16 weeks and their Tragic Kingdom album went diamond. What's Aaliyah's excuse? With radio being the #1 form of promotion and the objective of a single is the promote the album, Aaliyah HAS no excuse. Nobody was checking for her like you think.
If you compare their talents during their debuts and respective subsequent efforts, Beyonce and Alicia were definitely more talented than her. Aaliyah couldn't do anything as simple as to write her own material. Aaliyah at 20 was not a better vocalist than Beyonce at 20. Aaliyah at 20 was not as talented as Alicia who wrote her entire album by herself including lyrics, musical composition, arranging, and producing her own music.
When your peers are going 3, 4, and 5 times platinum, you should at least be in the same ball park. Not trailing behind with half the total. And as you stated Aaliyah's singles weren't put on sale, that's all the more reason WHY Aaliyah's sales should be higher because that means you HAD to purchase her album if you wanted the songs.
Girl bye, Aaliyah was on the BB200 for 188 weeks, not 250. And the only reason why that album has 188 chart weeks is because Billboard combined the chart run of Aaliyah and I Care 4 U as the former took its final bow off the charts the week of November 16, 2002. The album reentered the charts at #3 the week of December 28, 2002. Oh, and the album originally debuted at #2 behind which album? Songs In A Minor.
It wasn't going to happen because she was never a mass crossover artist. She wouldn't have been successful over Ashanti's debut, Beyonce's debut, or Alicia's follow up. Nobody is saying she's a flop, but to say she would have never flopped is ridiculous. EVERY artist has a flop album at some point in their career. Ain't nobody exempt from the laws of gravity.
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Sigh.. Lets get it! 
I agree, Brandy was bigger than Both Aaliyah and Monica.. Never did deny that.
And no, Once again, instead of just looking on wikipedia, Brush up on your stats. When Aaliyah was ALIVE, she debuted with 190k First week. After the Storm debuted with 186k, and Brandy's Full Moon debuted with 156k. Aaliyah's album was selling better in comparison, when she was ALIVE.
Aaliyah wasn't signed to Atlantic for the red album 
Don't get me wrong, the album wasn't doing AMAZING, but it wasnt flopping to the point where the era couldn't countinue. When RTB was sent in for radio The album JUMPED up 10 spots back into the top 20 (she was alive then by the way). She was getting the ball back rolling. Remember, Aaliyah's first two albums PEAKED In the bottom 20 of the hot 200 and still sold millions. Lets not kid ourselves. You make it seem like Aaliyah put out 10 videos, did a tour, did a year's worth of promotion, and the album still couldn't go platinum. That wasn't the case. And even YOU know it.
Once again sister, Unless you have been living under a rock for most of your life, certifications are NOT for sales, they are for SHIPMENTS. I dont give a **** If Monica's albums were certified 300x Diamond. The fact is that Monica's actual SALES were EQUIVALENT to Aaliyah's when Monica had more promotion and bigger singles (Boy is mine for example). Monica's debut was certified 3x platinum but only sold 1 million of those copies. Monica's follow up was also certified 3x platinum but only sold 2 million of those copies. No matter how much you flip it, their sales were on the same level. Think I'm lying? Look on SOUNDSCAN, Not RIAA. Monica's first two albums were OVERCERTIFIED. If anything, Brandy was the one that was getting the high sales in the 90's, not Monica.
Oh right, because it's totally logical to compare an urban r & b act to the sales of a rock group, who cater to different totally different universes and are marketed in polar opposite ways. You tried for that one, and fell flat. None of Aaliyah's peers could even go Diamond. Where's the logic? Yes, that method is indeed used to fuel album sales, but when your backed with horrible promotion what would you expect? It STILL. was a multi platinum album, something you can't seem to grasp or comprehend.
You can't sell 2 million copies (which is considered MULTI PLATINUM.) and not be "checked" for. That doesnt make sense. She may not have been the most popular thing out, but it was obvious she had some type of strong fan base with PLAQUES and HITS on the radio. Stop reaching girl!
I'll give you Alicia Keys. Musically, she was more talented than Aaliyah. But as an OVERALL entertainer and performer, Aaliyah was more talented than Alicia. Boom.
I personally don't agree that Beyonce was a better singer than Aaliyah at 20. Vocally, Aaliyah could do things better that Beyonce wasn't good at, and Beyonce could do things that Aaliyah wasn't good at. Beyonce could hit higher notes, but Aaliyah could hit lower ones. In My opinion, Beyonce didn't even become a vocal beast until "Bday" era. We can go in circles about the singing thing, but who's more talented is irrelevant as to if she would have "flopped" because there are several talentless artists who are slaying on radio now.
Oh girl, you TRIED that. Aaliyah and I Care 4 u were NEVER combined on the charts. Why would they be? They were SEPERATE albums and I Care 4 U was never considered a re-release, it was considered a GREATEST hits album. The fact of the matter is, the album was STILL selling some units per week which was why Aaliyah's mother had OIAM and "Aaliyah" pulled from retail stores. Go to walmart. See any Aaliyah cd's there? Or Target? Why do you think it's so rare to find a BRAND new "Aaliyah" cd? Do you think it's just a coincidence?  It's even another reason why Aaliyah's family didn't give the greenlight for a movie. Her family didn't want them (especially Aaliyah's uncle which is why her mom and him feuding) To profit from her death.
And yes, She was behind Alicia, But As stated before, Alicia pretty much swept EVERYONE that year. Lets not be in denial. she pretty much outsold everyone in 2001.
And how are you so sure about flopping? Again, HOW do you know she wouldn't make a pop album full of massive hits? How do you know? Usher is bigger now then what he was in the 90's. Rihanna didn't get huge until her 3rd album. Janet flopped twice in a row and smashed later on. Did you predict those?
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Member Since: 6/4/2010
Posts: 38,919
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KI! at the gerls thinking Skin is a Beyoncé stan.
As for Aaliyah, who knows? Her popularity was really gaining but unfortunately she passed.
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Member Since: 6/4/2010
Posts: 38,919
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lasers
and Aubrey is still a flop that has to suck black dick for relevance?
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asfdgfhghfdsd 
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Member Since: 4/29/2011
Posts: 6,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lasers
Sigh.. Lets get it!
I agree, Brandy was bigger than Both Aaliyah and Monica.. Never did deny that. |
"Brandy was huge in the 90's, can't knock that, but to be realistic, Aaliyah and Monica were on the same level. About even."
Please.
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And no, Once again, instead of just looking on wikipedia, Brush up on your stats. When Aaliyah was ALIVE, she debuted with 190k First week. After the Storm debuted with 186k, and Brandy's Full Moon debuted with 156k. Aaliyah's album was selling better in comparison, when she was ALIVE.
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KII @ you clinging on to that one era as leverage when Brandy and Monica mopped the floor with her for 6 years straight.
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Aaliyah wasn't signed to Atlantic for the red album
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Who said she was?
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Don't get me wrong, the album wasn't doing AMAZING, but it wasnt flopping to the point where the era couldn't countinue. When RTB was sent in for radio The album JUMPED up 10 spots back into the top 20 (she was alive then by the way). She was getting the ball back rolling. Remember, Aaliyah's first two albums PEAKED In the bottom 20 of the hot 200 and still sold millions. Lets not kid ourselves. You make it seem like Aaliyah put out 10 videos, did a tour, did a year's worth of promotion, and the album still couldn't go platinum. That wasn't the case. And even YOU know it.
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Aaliyah's albums weren't selling millions. In the 90s she was struggling to surpass platinum, hence why it took her debut 7 years to go 2x platinum and that was AFTER she died and her sales increased. No one is saying that she was flopping. My point is that Brandy and Monica were more popular than her based on the charts and the sales. That's fact, and don't try to refute the facts as they are just that, facts.
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Once again sister, Unless you have been living under a rock for most of your life, certifications are NOT for sales, they are for SHIPMENTS. I dont give a **** If Monica's albums were certified 300x Diamond. The fact is that Monica's actual SALES were EQUIVALENT to Aaliyah's when Monica had more promotion and bigger singles (Boy is mine for example). Monica's debut was certified 3x platinum but only sold 1 million of those copies. Monica's follow up was also certified 3x platinum but only sold 2 million of those copies. No matter how much you flip it, their sales were on the same level. Think I'm lying? Look on SOUNDSCAN, Not RIAA. Monica's first two albums were OVERCERTIFIED. If anything, Brandy was the one that was getting the high sales in the 90's, not Monica.
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I know the difference between the two sweetheart. Understand something, shipping albums = demand = public is buying your albums. Aaliyah's albums stopped being certified after a certain period of time because the demand wasn't there. Basic supply and demand, one of the fundamental principles of Capitalism. Monica's albums were still being shipped because retailers felt they could make a profit from the albums. Aaliyah never came because they didn't SEND for her hun. So she stayed HOME. And Monica's albums are certified just right when you factor in the sales from BMG Music Club and Columbia House. There's no over shipped albums for her.
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Oh right, because it's totally logical to compare an urban r & b act to the sales of a rock group, who cater to different totally different universes and are marketed in polar opposite ways. You tried for that one, and fell flat. None of Aaliyah's peers could even go Diamond. Where's the logic? Yes, that method is indeed used to fuel album sales, but when your backed with horrible promotion what would you expect? It STILL. was a multi platinum album, something you can't seem to grasp or comprehend.
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LOL @ trying to rule out the comparison. R&B was pop in the 90s, and was the biggest selling genre for a quite some time. And my point still stands, labels did not put her singles on sale because they wanted the album to sell. Consumers, at that point, are forced to buy the album. It did not work because people STILL did not buy her albums. KII @ that reach for diamond. Girl let's stay on the ground.
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You can't sell 2 million copies (which is considered MULTI PLATINUM.) and not be "checked" for. That doesnt make sense. She may not have been the most popular thing out, but it was obvious she had some type of strong fan base with PLAQUES and HITS on the radio. Stop reaching girl!
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Sweetie, Aaliyah only went multi platinum ONCE before she died. There is a reason for that.
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I'll give you Alicia Keys. Musically, she was more talented than Aaliyah. But as an OVERALL entertainer and performer, Aaliyah was more talented than Alicia. Boom.
I personally don't agree that Beyonce was a better singer than Aaliyah at 20. Vocally, Aaliyah could do things better that Beyonce wasn't good at, and Beyonce could do things that Aaliyah wasn't good at. Beyonce could hit higher notes, but Aaliyah could hit lower ones. In My opinion, Beyonce didn't even become a vocal beast until "Bday" era. We can go in circles about the singing thing, but who's more talented is irrelevant as to if she would have "flopped" because there are several talentless artists who are slaying on radio now.
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Beyonce's voice was better than Aaliyah's at 20, and ANY age. Beyonce's lower range is more resonant than Aaliyah's N-T-WAY.
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Oh girl, you TRIED that. Aaliyah and I Care 4 u were NEVER combined on the charts. Why would they be? They were SEPERATE albums and I Care 4 U was never considered a re-release, it was considered a GREATEST hits album. The fact of the matter is, the album was STILL selling some units per week which was why Aaliyah's mother had OIAM and "Aaliyah" pulled from retail stores. Go to walmart. See any Aaliyah cd's there? Or Target? Why do you think it's so rare to find a BRAND new "Aaliyah" cd? Do you think it's just a coincidence? It's even another reason why Aaliyah's family didn't give the greenlight for a movie. Her family didn't want them (especially Aaliyah's uncle which is why her mom and him feuding) To profit from her death.
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Don't be silly child. An album that stays on the charts for 188 weeks doesn't just go 2x platinum no matter WHAT the sales climate is, esp in 2001 when CD sales were still high.
http://www.billboard.com/#/album/aaliyah/aaliyah/484174
There's two BB200 positions on there under "Aaliyah" for a reason. Two of her albums were combined and that's how they got 188 charting weeks. Girl FOH thinking she stayed on the charts for 188 with no hit single to carry the album on the charts. Miss me much with the foolery.
LOL @ her family saying they didn't want the label to profit off her death. Business is business, and not one person in her family had a binding contract with Aaliyah's music to tell the company what to do with their product. The label owns Aaliyah's music and they can do what they want with it.
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And yes, She was behind Alicia, But As stated before, Alicia pretty much swept EVERYONE that year. Lets not be in denial. she pretty much outsold everyone in 2001.
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No.
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And how are you so sure about flopping? Again, HOW do you know she wouldn't make a pop album full of massive hits? How do you know? Usher is bigger now then what he was in the 90's. Rihanna didn't get huge until her 3rd album. Janet flopped twice in a row and smashed later on. Did you predict those?
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Because NOBODY was checking for her. Even with her last album when she was alive, "...Resolution" stalled at #59 on the Hot 100 and only managed to get to #15 on the R&B chart. Then even after she died, "Rock The Boat" only managed to get to #2 on the R&B and stalled at #14 on the Hot 100.
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Member Since: 6/24/2011
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Member Since: 11/11/2010
Posts: 28,420
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Quote:
Originally posted by KoreanDream
Yes. I think she'd be afraid to update her sound and it would kill her.
Her being dead is horrible and I wish she were still around because she was an amazing person and she gave us amazing music, but one (and maybe the only) positive thing that came from her death is that her legacy remains fantastic and without ruin.
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This!
That's one thing that has kept Beyoncé and Rihanna around for so long. They're both always ready and willing to change their sound up. While I do love Aaliyah's music, I don't think that she would have deviated from her urban sound, and her next album(s) would have been less successful than her Aaliyah album. It would have likely been a steady decline, though (top 10, then top 20, etc).
At the end of the day though, Aaliyah's music never really took off like it should have while she was alive. Other than a #1 single, 3 top 10 hits, and a top 20 hit, she didn't really have much success in terms of singles. Only 2 out of 6 singles from One In A Million even charted in America. Had she never released "Rock The Boat", she probably would have peaked in 2002-2004. I don't feel that her music ever received the success that it deserved while she was alive.
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Member Since: 4/30/2009
Posts: 4,574
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Quote:
Originally posted by ManDown
T Only 2 out of 6 singles from One In A Million even charted in America..
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Again, because the songs were ineligible to chart on the hot 100. They were only eligible to chart on hot 100 AIRPLAY, And her songs did well there. This was before billboard changed the rules to let airplay only songs to chart on the standard hot 100.. and when they DID change the rules, guess who had the FIRST # 1 song to chart on the hot 100 On radio spins alone?
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Member Since: 4/30/2009
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lately 1814
"Brandy was huge in the 90's, can't knock that, but to be realistic, Aaliyah and Monica were on the same level. About even."
Please.
KII @ you clinging on to that one era as leverage when Brandy and Monica mopped the floor with her for 6 years straight.
Who said she was?
Aaliyah's albums weren't selling millions. In the 90s she was struggling to surpass platinum, hence why it took her debut 7 years to go 2x platinum and that was AFTER she died and her sales increased. No one is saying that she was flopping. My point is that Brandy and Monica were more popular than her based on the charts and the sales. That's fact, and don't try to refute the facts as they are just that, facts.
I know the difference between the two sweetheart. Understand something, shipping albums = demand = public is buying your albums. Aaliyah's albums stopped being certified after a certain period of time because the demand wasn't there. Basic supply and demand, one of the fundamental principles of Capitalism. Monica's albums were still being shipped because retailers felt they could make a profit from the albums. Aaliyah never came because they didn't SEND for her hun. So she stayed HOME. And Monica's albums are certified just right when you factor in the sales from BMG Music Club and Columbia House. There's no over shipped albums for her.
LOL @ trying to rule out the comparison. R&B was pop in the 90s, and was the biggest selling genre for a quite some time. And my point still stands, labels did not put her singles on sale because they wanted the album to sell. Consumers, at that point, are forced to buy the album. It did not work because people STILL did not buy her albums. KII @ that reach for diamond. Girl let's stay on the ground.
Sweetie, Aaliyah only went multi platinum ONCE before she died. There is a reason for that.
Beyonce's voice was better than Aaliyah's at 20, and ANY age. Beyonce's lower range is more resonant than Aaliyah's N-T-WAY.
Don't be silly child. An album that stays on the charts for 188 weeks doesn't just go 2x platinum no matter WHAT the sales climate is, esp in 2001 when CD sales were still high.
http://www.billboard.com/#/album/aaliyah/aaliyah/484174
There's two BB200 positions on there under "Aaliyah" for a reason. Two of her albums were combined and that's how they got 188 charting weeks. Girl FOH thinking she stayed on the charts for 188 with no hit single to carry the album on the charts. Miss me much with the foolery.
LOL @ her family saying they didn't want the label to profit off her death. Business is business, and not one person in her family had a binding contract with Aaliyah's music to tell the company what to do with their product. The label owns Aaliyah's music and they can do what they want with it.
No.
Because NOBODY was checking for her. Even with her last album when she was alive, "...Resolution" stalled at #59 on the Hot 100 and only managed to get to #15 on the R&B chart. Then even after she died, "Rock The Boat" only managed to get to #2 on the R&B and stalled at #14 on the Hot 100.
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Are you slow? I NEVER said Aaliyah was bigger than Brandy. I did however, say that Aaliyah and Monica were about even. Read the quote again, and maybe a little slower this time.
And i'm not holding on to anything, sis. YOU said that "Aaliyah's album wasn't selling better than the other two and I proved you wrong and now you want to pull that card? Gerl please. Ki at you trying to duck. Admit you were wrong and punch on.
Her first album didn't "struggle" to go platinum, because it DID go platinum in 1994. Again,sales were hurt because of the r.kelly thing. She still sold MILLIONS. Lets do math since you can't keep up sis.
AANBAN-1
OIAM-2
=3 million
3 my dear, is NOT a single number. Which means more than 1, which makes it "multi". So with that being said, she sold MILLIONS. Like I said.
Gerl, I dont give a **** about how much retailers ordered Monica's albums. the FACT is that the PEOPLE didn't buy all those copies. So poor them for wasting money. Ki. Give credit where it's due. Aaliyah and Monica sold the SAME amount, and that's that. A mess @ u trying to defend OVERCERTIFIED albums just to bring Aaliyah down. Are you fuming sis? It was OVERCERTIFIED. SOUNDSCAN leaked the tea. Mo had the boy is mine, angel of mine, AND first night (all # 1 singles), and she still couldn't outsell One In A Million? whats the tea on that sis? Lets call out the RIGHT ****.
How many of Aaliyah's peers went Diamond? Pop artists were STILL selling, just not with singles. Their albums were still garnering major sales.
And she went multiplatinum once. so? she's STILL was considered a " multi platinum" star. Lets say it again so it can WRAP around that Brain. One In A million was certied DOUBLE Platinum, giving her MULTI platinum star status. Still don't understand? File a complaint with Billboard.
You think Beyonce sung better. I don't. and I don't really give a **** about that as it holds no relevance to the overall debate. Next.
OOp. Guess you were right about that album merging thing. That's one true thing you've said in this thread. Mistake on billboard's part though.
Gerl, you don't know ****. Aaliyah's family didn't want them to profit off of her death which is why the albums were PULLED. Why do you think her family had NUMEROUS court hearings with her label about Aaliyah genius? How do you know they didn't come to a mutual agreement? why do you think Barry and Aaliyah's parents are beefing? You can't find them in stores sis. I've had talks with Static (aaliyah's songwriter) manager he said this, rashad dropped hints on it, And even her family dropped hints. You aren't even a stan and you want to debate with me about what went on behind the scenes of Aaliyah's career? You look FOOLISH. Why do you think no movie came out? Because her family DID NOT WANT it because it's people making money from her death. You don't know ****. Dont even bother replying to this tidbit.
WNAR was a flop. AND? what artists don't have flop songs? Point me to them.
and Rock the boat was still a hit. Who cares? Just because you die doesn't mean any and every song will go # 1. That's a stereotype.
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Member Since: 4/29/2011
Posts: 6,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lasers
Are you slow? I NEVER said Aaliyah was bigger than Brandy. I did however, say that Aaliyah and Monica were about even. Read the quote again, and maybe a little slower this time.
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And I am telling you that you are WRONG. Brandy was more popular than Monica. Monica was more popular than Aaliyah.
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And i'm not holding on to anything, sis. YOU said that "Aaliyah's album wasn't selling better than the other two and I proved you wrong and now you want to pull that card? Gerl please. Ki at you trying to duck. Admit you were wrong and punch on.
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You didn't prove anything.
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Her first album didn't "struggle" to go platinum, because it DID go platinum in 1994. Again,sales were hurt because of the r.kelly thing. She still sold MILLIONS. Lets do math since you can't keep up sis.
AANBAN-1
OIAM-2
=3 million
3 my dear, is NOT a single number. Which means more than 1, which makes it "multi". So with that being said, she sold MILLIONS. Like I said.
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Brandy's debut went 4x platinum. Monica's debut went 3x platinum. Why Aaliyah had to die to go 2x platinum? Chile, sit.
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Gerl, I dont give a **** about how much retailers ordered Monica's albums. the FACT is that the PEOPLE didn't buy all those copies. So poor them for wasting money. Ki. Give credit where it's due. Aaliyah and Monica sold the SAME amount, and that's that. A mess @ u trying to defend OVERCERTIFIED albums just to bring Aaliyah down. Are you fuming sis? It was OVERCERTIFIED. SOUNDSCAN leaked the tea. Mo had the boy is mine, angel of mine, AND first night (all # 1 singles), and she still couldn't outsell One In A Million? whats the tea on that sis? Lets call out the RIGHT ****.
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IRRELEVANT.
Shipped albums = demand, unshipped albums = nobody is here for that. Why Aaliyah's label didn't ship out her albums? Oh that's why, nobody was checking for her. Do you even know how certifications WORK? =\
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How many of Aaliyah's peers went Diamond? Pop artists were STILL selling, just not with singles. Their albums were still garnering major sales.
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Spare yourself.
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And she went multiplatinum once. so? she's STILL was considered a "multi platinum" star. Lets say it again so it can WRAP around that Brain. One In A million was certied DOUBLE Platinum, giving her MULTI platinum star status. Still don't understand? File a complaint with Billboard.
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Right, she only went multi platinum ONCE before she died, while her peers went multi platinum twice. That proves my point on who was more popular than who in the 90s. See how you lose?
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You think Beyonce sung better. I don't. and I don't really give a **** about that as it holds no relevance to the overall debate. Next.
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I don't think. I KNOW Beyonce is a better vocalist than Aaliyah, whose voice is only good for harmonizing N-T-WAY. She could barely carry a melody.
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OOp. Guess you were right about that album merging thing. That's one true thing you've said in this thread. Mistake on billboard's part though.
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You were wrong. Have a seat.
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Gerl, you don't know ****. Aaliyah's family didn't want them to profit off of her death which is why the albums were PULLED. Why do you think her family had NUMEROUS court hearings with her label about Aaliyah genius? How do you know they didn't come to a mutual agreement? why do you think Barry and Aaliyah's parents are beefing? You can't find them in stores sis. I've had talks with Static (aaliyah's songwriter) manager he said this, rashad dropped hints on it, And even her family dropped hints. You aren't even a stan and you want to debate with me about what went on behind the scenes of Aaliyah's career? You look FOOLISH. Why do you think no movie came out? Because her family DID NOT WANT it because it's people making money from her death. You don't know ****. Dont even bother replying to this tidbit.
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Save it. The label owns her music, and if you don't like it take it up with the label. Family has no bearing on what a label can and can't do with the probably of a corporation. Spare yourself the headache and learn about business and contracts.
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WNAR was a flop. AND? what artists don't have flop songs? Point me to them.
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At least you admit it. I love it when you see things my way. =]
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and Rock the boat was still a hit. Who cares? Just because you die doesn't mean any and every song will go # 1. That's a stereotype.
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And it didn't happen to Aaliyah, why? Cuz nobody was here for her in the 90s and they weren't here for her after she died. An untimely death and you only manage 3 more platinum certifications? Ch....
#CheckPlease
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Member Since: 4/30/2009
Posts: 4,574
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lately 1814
And I am telling you that you are WRONG. Brandy was more popular than Monica. Monica was more popular than Aaliyah.
You didn't prove anything.
Brandy's debut went 4x platinum. Monica's debut went 3x platinum. Why Aaliyah had to die to go 2x platinum? Chile, sit.
IRRELEVANT.
Shipped albums = demand, unshipped albums = nobody is here for that. Why Aaliyah's label didn't ship out her albums? Oh that's why, nobody was checking for her. Do you even know how certifications WORK? =\
Spare yourself.
Right, she only went multi platinum ONCE before she died, while her peers went multi platinum twice. That proves my point on who was more popular than who in the 90s. See how you lose?
I don't think. I KNOW Beyonce is a better vocalist than Aaliyah, whose voice is only good for harmonizing N-T-WAY. She could barely carry a melody.
You were wrong. Have a seat.
Save it. The label owns her music, and if you don't like it take it up with the label. Family has no bearing on what a label can and can't do with the probably of a corporation. Spare yourself the headache and learn about business and contracts.
At least you admit it. I love it when you see things my way. =]
And it didn't happen to Aaliyah, why? Cuz nobody was here for her in the 90s and they weren't here for her after she died. An untimely death and you only manage 3 more platinum certifications? Ch....
#CheckPlease
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How was Monica more popular when they sold the same amount of albums and Aaliyah's songs charted better internationally?
I did, sis. YOU said that Aaliyah wasn't selling better than Full Moon and After the storm and I posted facts that It did. If Your're gonna debate, don't be an ass and not admit where you got owned
Again, Monica's went 3x platinum and only sold a platinum amount. Actual Sales>>Certifications (anybody with logical sense would tell you that) But of course, your biased ass won't admit that for some reason. And even then, what does Monica and Brandy have to do with the fact that you didn't have the proper math skills to realize that 3 million sold= Considered selling millions?
I know how certifications work. But at the END OF THE DAY, actual sales>>>shipments. Obviously, Monica didn't live up to her expectations if she left 1 million of those albums unsold. No matter how much you flip it (which looks so pathetic) Monica STILL never outsold Aaliyah. So sit girl.
So, pop artists wern't popular and wern't selling major units in the 90's? Where does this leave Britney Spears? Nsync? Spice Girls? Ricky Martin? Nirvana? Need I countinue? You spare YOURSELF.
Where's the lost when the actual SALES were the same as Aaliyah's? lol You DO realize that sales show more demand than retail orders? I mean, sales DO show what people are spending money on.
You don't know a damn thing. Beyonce singing better than Aaliyah is YOUR opinion, and it's never going to be a fact. Ever. Lmao, bye gerl.
And unlike you, I have enough balls to admit I was wrong. You however, tries to gear off topic with some irrelevant ******** (Like when I proved that red album was indeed doing better than Mo
s and Brandys, you simple glossed over it and said "But Brandy and Monica still ____!") . Girl, moove!
Then can you explain to me why her family and label had several court hearings? Where you there in court? how do you know they didn't have a mutual agreement? Keisha Chante even said that the movie didn't have a greenlight because her family said NO. So if the labels still had all of these rights (or didn't have an agreement) They could have easily overrode the family's wishes and went along with the movie. again, you dont know **** about the situtation. Stick to Beyonce. If it's that serious, you can even talk to Static's manager (who knows more about Aaliyah than both of us) that can vouch this. http://twitter.com/#!/staticmajor502
It's nothing to see. Every artist has a flop song here and there. So I mean, what were you trying there? Was her whole career full of flop singles or something? No, so that was a fail.
How many artists had # 1 songs when they died on the charts?Michael Jackson's posthumous songs were ALL flops. What logic are you trying?
Again, she would have sold more if her albums wernt PULLED from the stores. Go to target or walmart and see if they still have Aaliyah albums. I DARE you.
Either way, her albums STILL sold millions. (remember sis, anything more than a "million" ends with an "S"
*rips up your FALSE reciepts and replaces with TRUE tea*
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