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Discussion: If I Weren't A Boy: Nudity
Banned
Member Since: 11/2/2011
Posts: 910
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If I Weren't A Boy: Nudity
I'm writing a column for International Women's Day, which is celebrated on March 8th. I've been asked to explore favorable and unfavorable double-standards for women. So far, I have come up with three, and I really need as much insight as possible; so please provide as many anecdotes, opinions, etc. as you possibly can. Over the next couple of days, I will update this thread with a new double-standard. With that said, first up is sexual promiscuity. - Do you view sexually promiscuous males and females differently?
- Do you think that a noticeable difference in the image of sexually promiscuous males and females is present in society?
- If a double-standard is present, do you find it favorable or unfavorable for females?
Next Up, nudity: - Do you find shirtless men indecent? Do you find shirtless women indecent?
- Do you find it unfair that men are permitted to walk around shirtless but women are not? Is a double-standard present?
- If a double-standard is present, do you find it favorable or unfavorable for women?
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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- Nope. A ***** is a *****. Male or Female.
- Yes, I do.
- It is unfavorable for females.
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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1. To an extent, yes. Either way, I don't see promiscuity as "score" for either parties, but its more of appalling when a woman does it. That's just how its always going to be to most people.
2. Of course.
3. It's unfavorable for females.
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Member Since: 9/16/2011
Posts: 50,981
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Do you view sexually promiscuous males and females differently?
No; I judge promiscuous people of all genders equally.
Do you think that a noticeable difference in the image of sexually promiscuous males and females is present in society?
Yes.
If a double-standard is present, do you find it favorable or unfavorable for females?
Unfavorable.
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Member Since: 12/1/2010
Posts: 23,572
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1. No. Sexuality is sexuality. Male or female, if you like to get around then you like to get around. I don't see why it should be different based on what's between your legs. A guy putting himself out there is no different than a female putting herself out there.
2. Yes - magazines, television, movies all do a great job of showing this
3. Unfavorable towards women. They seem have more limitations and more rules on sexual etiquette
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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People, stop fronting. We all see promiscuous women in a worse light than promiscuous males. If we hear about a guy who's smashed the cheerleading team, we might say "Oh wow, he's a man *****." Whereas, if we hear about a girl who's gotten smashed by half the football team, we'd probably say something more along the lines of "That girl is a f*cking ****. How disgusting, she's so trashy." We're much more likely to have more to say about a whorish woman than a whorish man. Not that that's right or fair or anything like that, but there is a double standard and I think most of all do fall into it, whether we want to or not.
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Member Since: 3/13/2011
Posts: 4,742
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I think open promiscuity is annoying either way to be honest. I would have more respect for both parties if they didn't advertise their desperate need to get laid. I don't think it's an attractive quality for a man or a woman.
Yes and no. I think it's by and large more acceptable now for women to have sex with numerous partners as long as it's not advertised and not well known. You can have sex, just don't tell everyone about it. Same with men, I don't know a lot of women who would willingly go out with a guy who has slept with every other girl in their dorm, class or house. I have seen men and women both go back to their friends and celebrate the fact that they got laid. So I would say things are becoming more equal in every day life.
In the past I believe it was unfavorable and it will be unfavorable if the female herself portrays herself poorly. If she doesn't make her sexual history known then it won't be a big deal.
Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Whereas, if we hear about a girl who's gotten smashed by half the football team, we'd probably say something more along the lines of "That girl is a f*cking ****. How disgusting, she's so trashy." We're much more likely to have more to say about a whorish woman than a whorish man.
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It depends on the woman in my case and where I live to be honest. If it's Susie Colland's who runs the local college station, helps out down at the salvation army and also has a position in the dean's office as receptionist a lot of people will only view that as one aspect of her character and will pay it dust. If it's Andrea Flawsky who downs ten tequila shots, dances on bar tables, flashes the entire public three times every half and hour and is constantly all over every person with an appendage of course people will have something poor to say about her. Her behavior attracts negative connotations of promiscuous women.
Take Sex In The City all of those women had a fair amount of sex, yet they weren't seen as ****s because they were well developed characters who presented themselves as more then just sex starved sorority girls.
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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I really could not give a ****. Its their body, if its consensual people need to back the **** off.
People mind each others business too much.
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
People, stop fronting. We all see promiscuous women in a worse light than promiscuous males. If we hear about a guy who's smashed the cheerleading team, we might say "Oh wow, he's a man *****." Whereas, if we hear about a girl who's gotten smashed by half the football team, we'd probably say something more along the lines of "That girl is a f*cking ****. How disgusting, she's so trashy." We're much more likely to have more to say about a whorish woman than a whorish man. Not that that's right or fair or anything like that, but there is a double standard and I think most of all do fall into it, whether we want to or not.
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THANK YOU, ugh.
I already knew 5 posts in, people would try putting on the politcally-correct mask and say "I view both equally, blah blah". Oh please. Even on ATRL I see people saying things along these lines, but its so second nature people don't even realize it. People make a fuss when a man hits a woman, but does anyone care when a woman hits a man? Of course not. And it doesn't bother me one bit. Some of you need to get out of the whole "kumbaya, we're all equal" hippie crap and realize society will never be that way.
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Banned
Member Since: 11/2/2011
Posts: 910
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monroe
I think open promiscuity is annoying either way to be honest. I would have more respect for both parties if they didn't advertise their desperate need to get laid. I don't think it's an attractive quality for a man or a woman.
Yes and no. I think it's by and large more acceptable now for women to have sex with numerous partners as long as it's not advertised and not well known. You can have sex, just don't tell everyone about it. Same with men, I don't know a lot of women who would willingly go out with a guy who has slept with every other girl in their dorm, class or house. I have seen men and women both go back to their friends and celebrate the fact that they got laid. So I would say things are becoming more equal in every day life.
In the past I believe it was unfavorable and it will be unfavorable if the female herself portrays herself poorly. If she doesn't make her sexual history known then it won't be a big deal.
It depends on the woman in my case and where I live to be honest. If it's Susie Colland's who runs the local college station, helps out down at the salvation army and also has a position in the dean's office as receptionist a lot of people will only view that as one aspect of her character and will pay it dust. If it's Andrea Flawsky who downs ten tequila shots, dances on bar tables, flashes the entire public three times every half and hour and is constantly all over every person with an appendage of course people will have something poor to say about her. Her behavior attracts negative connotations of promiscuous women.
Take Sex In The City all of those women had a fair amount of sex, yet they weren't seen as ****s because they were well developed characters who presented themselves as more then just sex starved sorority girls.
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I have noticed that also. It appears to me that women are a sexual promiscuous woman's harshest critics.
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Member Since: 12/1/2010
Posts: 23,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
People, stop fronting. We all see promiscuous women in a worse light than promiscuous males. If we hear about a guy who's smashed the cheerleading team, we might say "Oh wow, he's a man *****." Whereas, if we hear about a girl who's gotten smashed by half the football team, we'd probably say something more along the lines of "That girl is a f*cking ****. How disgusting, she's so trashy." We're much more likely to have more to say about a whorish woman than a whorish man. Not that that's right or fair or anything like that, but there is a double standard and I think most of all do fall into it, whether we want to or not.
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I honestly do not care I've had female friends who got around plenty, and I didn't view them as "****s." I'm not going to high five anyone, guy or girl, for getting passed around. I mean I'm not involved in the act, so why would I feel discomfort, happiness, excitement or lack of approval?
And NE, just because you have a very 1800s way of thinking doesn't mean everyone has to adapt. I don't really see it is 'equality,' I just think some people are not that concerned with what other people do in the business of their own bedrooms. It is one thing to joke about it on ATRL about celebrities we've never even met, but as far as people...Not everyone really cares. I sure as hell don't.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 12/29/2003
Posts: 6,311
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownBear15
- Do you view sexually promiscuous males and females differently?
- Do you think that a noticeable difference in the image of sexually promiscuous males and females is present in society?
- If a double-standard is present, do you find it favorable or unfavorable for females?
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- Nope, one is promiscuous despite gender.
- Yes, positive for males and negative for females. Positive for males to other males perhaps. More people are finding different definitions of promiscuity, either as being more open with sexuality, thus a good thing, or not having standards, a bad thing, but generally, when looking at the masculine image, it's seen more positive with other masculine or judging people, but more negative for femininity in general.
- Unfavorable to females but it really depends on the context, since not only is virginity something that a female should value but something that needs to be lost for males. However, the more sex partners you have, as in you already lost your virginity, the better you are if you are a male, yet the worse you are if you are a female.
Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
People, stop fronting. We all see promiscuous women in a worse light than promiscuous males. If we hear about a guy who's smashed the cheerleading team, we might say "Oh wow, he's a man *****." Whereas, if we hear about a girl who's gotten smashed by half the football team, we'd probably say something more along the lines of "That girl is a f*cking ****. How disgusting, she's so trashy." We're much more likely to have more to say about a whorish woman than a whorish man. Not that that's right or fair or anything like that, but there is a double standard and I think most of all do fall into it, whether we want to or not.
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That may be the gendered response but if you learn how it really makes no sense, you tend to change your views. I mean, if you think about it, how stupid does "man *****" sound when "*****" is supposed to mean a promiscuous person and yet we associate it with females enough to add "man" when identifying a promiscuous male? Why perpetuate a horrible perspective? I'm sorry but not everyone is fronting when they say that they can move past some conventional views.
Quote:
Originally posted by Monroe
Yes and no. I think it's by and large more acceptable now for women to have sex with numerous partners as long as it's not advertised and not well known. You can have sex, just don't tell everyone about it. Same with men, I don't know a lot of women who would willingly go out with a guy who has slept with every other girl in their dorm, class or house. I have seen men and women both go back to their friends and celebrate the fact that they got laid. So I would say things are becoming more equal in every day life.
In the past I believe it was unfavorable and it will be unfavorable if the female herself portrays herself poorly. If she doesn't make her sexual history known then it won't be a big deal.
It depends on the woman in my case and where I live to be honest. If it's Susie Colland's who runs the local college station, helps out down at the salvation army and also has a position in the dean's office as receptionist a lot of people will only view that as one aspect of her character and will pay it dust. If it's Andrea Flawsky who downs ten tequila shots, dances on bar tables, flashes the entire public three times every half and hour and is constantly all over every person with an appendage of course people will have something poor to say about her. Her behavior attracts negative connotations of promiscuous women.
Take Sex In The City all of those women had a fair amount of sex, yet they weren't seen as ****s because they were well developed characters who presented themselves as more then just sex starved sorority girls.
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You bring up a good point about how it is viewed with the opposite sex but I guess I forgot to mention my audience for how one thing may be viewed. Yeah, I agree that women may not find a man attractive if he sleeps around but the masculine image is a lot different when in a female gaze versus a male gaze. While you may act like you have sex often or you are very masculine in some ways with male or judging friends, it differs greatly with how you want to be portrayed with the sex you want to attract.
Sex in the City is a horrible example because they technically did not announce their promiscuity. Furthermore, Samantha was probably the only one who was actually promiscuous, while the others were a bit more stable with their men. They technically still valued money a lot and well, one can go into a whole gender-rant with that show, so I'll save that for later. Either way, point is, they weren't really all that promiscuous when you think about it.
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vertigo Stick
I honestly do not care I've had female friends who got around plenty, and I didn't view them as "****s." I'm not going to high five anyone, guy or girl, for getting passed around. I mean I'm not involved in the act, so why would I feel discomfort, happiness, excitement or lack of approval?
And NE, just because you have a very 1800s way of thinking doesn't mean everyone has to adapt. I don't really see it is 'equality,' I just think some people are not that concerned with what other people do in the business of their own bedrooms. It is one thing to joke about it on ATRL about celebrities we've never even met, but as far as people...Not everyone really cares. I sure as hell don't.
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I have an 1800s way of thinking? Ironically, promiscuity wasn't a problem in the 1800s, so it's uneducated that you would even refer to the common mindset as "1800s". Buddy, like it or not EVERYONE feels that way about promiscuity. It's only the few frail, overly-PC drenched drones who want to act like they don't view promiscuity as worse with women. Not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just telling it like it is. Some of you need to wake up and get real.
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Member Since: 11/27/2008
Posts: 78,826
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I'm more concerned with the fact that it seems unacceptable to dance with other guys at clubs, parties, or dances.
I'm bi on the dancefloor and I tend to get away with dancing with straight guys (as well as girls) because everyone knows i'm gay...but of course I also am really well-known and popular in real life.
I don't give a **** about promiscuous boys and girls. A few of my friends are ****ty so I joke about how they are ****tier than me (some of my dance moves are REALLY bootylicious and I was quite a sexual demon when I was 13 but only in the nipple area. But they were with older guys).
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by orange
That may be the gendered response but if you learn how it really makes no sense, you tend to change your views. I mean, if you think about it, how stupid does "man *****" sound when "*****" is supposed to mean a promiscuous person and yet we associate it with females enough to add "man" when identifying a promiscuous male? Why perpetuate a horrible perspective? I'm sorry but not everyone is fronting when they say that they can move past some conventional views.
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I'm not saying that it's right, but that's the way most people are, at least in this country. I was being completely general. And you're definitely right about the term "man*****", and I completely agree. I'm just saying that there is a double standard that most of us more or less subconsciously fall into perpetuating. Just compare two hypothetical threads on ATRL: "Usher leaves clubs with 10 different women in one week" and "Rihanna leaves clubs 10 different men in one week". Of course both threads are going to have negative responses to both Usher and Rihanna by those who aren't stans, but the Rihanna thread is going to be much more brutal. As it should be. To clarify that, she should be hypothetically "dragged for filth" for taking 10 different men home in one week. But Usher should hypothetically receive the same treatment. Will he, though? No, he won't because he's a man. It's not right, but it's the way it is.
And if I'm being honest, I feel like when it comes to certain double standards (like girls and guys being *****s, girls wearing pants vs guys wearing skirts, etc.), they are better things to focus on changing than them. Such things as double standards are incredibly hard to change, and I'd say that telling someone, "Well, there's a double standard that a guy is a player while a girl is a *****, so just stop sleeping around and you won't get called a *****" is a quick solution that'll only benefit society. I guess the only issue with that is that you'd need to also make sure the guys know that sleeping around is wrong for them as well. But I guess with the less girls you have sleeping around, then it follows that you'll have less guys sleeping around? I don't know, I think I'm rambling & my thoughts aren't clear anymore. It's getting late.
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Member Since: 9/13/2011
Posts: 14,715
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Do you view sexually promiscuous males and females differently? Yes I do. If a woman is considered to be sexually promiscuous, then they are automatically deemed as being disrespectful of their bodies. This is society's outlook. However, in another light that people don't often see, it can show that the woman is strong, secure and confident enough to be in control of themselves - much like men. It's not always a negative thing. If a woman can learn to take care of herself and her body for her own purposes without exposure to great risk, then it can be positive aspect in who she is as a person. Women should be able to enjoy sex just as much as men. If they are shown to be responsible in taking control of themselves and their bodies whilst creating the boundaries, then I don't see anything that wrong with it. Once they are aware of the responsibilities, this is fine. I do see men differently though. I get the impression that "sex" is a more of a status-quo for males. It's more about proving how many women you've slept with, as opposed to how much of it you've actually done for your own enjoyment. This is a generalization, but this is the impression that feeds of society. I see females as having sex because they want sex. This is why they do not sleep with everyone they see. Males want sex just for the sake of image. This is not the case for everybody. Just the way I perceive it.
Do you think that a noticeable difference in the image of sexually promiscuous males and females is present in society? Yes. It is seen as a negative for women, but both positive and negative for men. Women will always be placed with a negative connotation when it comes to sex. Men amongst their peers will be seen in a positive light for being sexually promiscuous, however in the broader community - sleeping with a lot of women can also be seen as a bad, sleezy thing.
If a double-standard is present, do you find it favorable or unfavorable for females?
Unfavorable for females.
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Member Since: 7/9/2010
Posts: 28,061
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I'm more prone to see a girl who slept with lots of people as a trashy ****, but a guy who slept with a lot of people as a cool guy.. or player. Everyone will always look at the girl as the ****, why? Because in most cases it's the girl who has the final say in sex.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 12/29/2003
Posts: 6,311
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I'm not saying that it's right, but that's the way most people are, at least in this country. I was being completely general. And you're definitely right about the term "man*****", and I completely agree. I'm just saying that there is a double standard that most of us more or less subconsciously fall into perpetuating. Just compare two hypothetical threads on ATRL: "Usher leaves clubs with 10 different women in one week" and "Rihanna leaves clubs 10 different men in one week". Of course both threads are going to have negative responses to both Usher and Rihanna by those who aren't stans, but the Rihanna thread is going to be much more brutal. As it should be. To clarify that, she should be hypothetically "dragged for filth" for taking 10 different men home in one week. But Usher should hypothetically receive the same treatment. Will he, though? No, he won't because he's a man. It's not right, but it's the way it is.
And if I'm being honest, I feel like when it comes to certain double standards (like girls and guys being *****s, girls wearing pants vs guys wearing skirts, etc.), they are better things to focus on changing than them. Such things as double standards are incredibly hard to change, and I'd say that telling someone, "Well, there's a double standard that a guy is a player while a girl is a *****, so just stop sleeping around and you won't get called a *****" is a quick solution that'll only benefit society. I guess the only issue with that is that you'd need to also make sure the guys know that sleeping around is wrong for them as well. But I guess with the less girls you have sleeping around, then it follows that you'll have less guys sleeping around? I don't know, I think I'm rambling & my thoughts aren't clear anymore. It's getting late.
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First off, what do you mean, as it should be?
Second, I don't agree with your logic on the last point. I can't remember where I heard this but apparently more guys say that they are having sex than girls... when stereotypically, there are more hetereosexuals than homosexuals, so unless there are males having gay sex, there should be an equal amount of girls saying they are having sex as well as guys; however, they found out that the surveys did not take prostitutes into account, so while they surveyed both males and females, they avoided accounting for prostitutes, where most of the profession is taken up by females. This means that the data was flawed and while there may be less females sleeping around, there were more males sleeping around with prostitutes, whole slept around with a lot of those males.
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Member Since: 2/9/2008
Posts: 32,819
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
I really could not give a ****. Its their body, if its consensual people need to back the **** off.
People mind each others business too much.
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I agree. At the moment I'm probably the most sexually uninterested gay guy at my college, but there's nothing wrong with being promiscuous as long as you're smart and safe. **** shaming sucks. It's an artifact and it's not needed.
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by orange
First off, what do you mean, as it should be?
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I clarified that right after, because I knew it wouldn't sound right alone:
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To clarify that, she should be hypothetically "dragged for filth" for taking 10 different men home in one week. But Usher should hypothetically receive the same treatment. Will he, though? No, he won't because he's a man. It's not right, but it's the way it is.
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Quote:
Originally posted by orange
Second, I don't agree with your logic on the last point. I can't remember where I heard this but apparently more guys say that they are having sex than girls... when stereotypically, there are more hetereosexuals than homosexuals, so unless there are males having gay sex, there should be an equal amount of girls saying they are having sex as well as guys; however, they found out that the surveys did not take prostitutes into account, so while they surveyed both males and females, they avoided accounting for prostitutes, where most of the profession is taken up by females. This means that the data was flawed and while there may be less females sleeping around, there were more males sleeping around with prostitutes, whole slept around with a lot of those males.
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Hmm, well you'd have to take into account that guys are probably more likely to grossly overestimate the amount of sex their having, while females are more likely to do the inverse, right?
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