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Discussion: Atheists & Agnostics Hangout Thread.
Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
Hey sweaty  |
I am not sweaty. I just showered 
Hi
OT: Also all gays should indeed hate islam and christianity and any other organized religion whose beliefs state that they are subhuman and should be killed. Now before you try it communion, I want you to think about the difference between the should and should be forced. You are notorious for confusing the two.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Unforgiving
Saying that races aren't real is ironic tbh. You get to chose your faith and your ideology, but you can't change your identity. That's why racism is a lot worse than blasphemy.
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But I do disagree with the wording "worse than blasphemy", as if blasphemy is a bad thing to begin with?
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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I personnally dislike the all gay should hate religion thing. Being critical >>>>. Some religion have proved they're willing to evolve (not as quick as society but still)
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
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This was about "gay people should hate all Abarahamic religions", not "conservative".
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Yes, so WHY do conservatives hardly ever talk about how gays need to be fearful of Christianity, Judaism, etc.?
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Just because horrible act A exists in both religion X and religion Y, doesn't mean they exist on the same scale. That was the entire point, and you're trying to contest it by saying that horrible act A exists in all religions when that is known.
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Christianity in Africa isn't as bad as Christianity in Africa? 
Yes... it is.
Similarly, Islam in the US is extremely liberal and even more liberal than many extreme versions of Christianity in the US.
Why compare religions in x cultures to religions in y cultures when clearly to demonize one when clearly there's a completely different context. Mormons in the US are clearly, objectively, more hateful than American Muslims - so why are conservatives obsessed with Islam and not the bigotry in religions like Mormonism?
Also, Latino isn't a race. By your definition, anti-Latino hatred could not be racism too.
It works in the framework of racism in the US because being Latino is racialized - ie: white Latinos in the US face racialized hatred they wouldn't when in countries where being Latino is not racialized and they can simply be white.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
I personnally dislike the all gay should hate religion thing. Being critical >>>>. Some religion have proved they're willing to evolve (not as quick as society but still)
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Oh great. Christianity evolved in the western world after MILLENIUMs of persecution it caused, the after effects of which are the reason homophobia is still a thing in Europe and America.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ecstasy
Oh great. Christianity evolved in the western world after MILLENIUMs of persecution it caused, the after effects of which are the reason homophobia is still a thing in Europe and America.
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Hating won't change any of that. People will be more willing to change some of their beliefs instead of forgetting about them all together.
You can't end hating by preaching more hate.
Let's peacefully help religion to evolve they can keep all the non sense as long as it's not harmful to anybody
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
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One thing heckling doesn't understand is that a statement can be both true and rooted in bias at the same time, and that bias can still be rooted in prejudice, no matter how truthful the statement is.
Look at this:
"Black people kill more black people in the US than white people do"
Is this statement true?
Yes, it's factual. The majority of deaths of black people in the US are caused by other black people.
However, this often becomes a racist (yes - racist despite being true) talking point used by racists to silence black people and brush over the fact that black people are still disproportionately killed by police, locked up, etc. and then most crime, in general, is based on proxemics (ie: most crime is committed against people you live around), and that there's a plethora of societal issues that add context to that issue explaining the plight of black people.
Similarly, when a US conservative says something about Islam, it could very well be true, but is there bias?
Do they only ever talk about Islam? Is their focus on it rooted in a subconscious racialized hatred? For A LOT of the US and its conservative, it just objectively is.
Truthful, factual statements can still be used and misappropriated for hateful, prejudiced means.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
Yes, so WHY do conservatives hardly ever talk about how gays need to be fearful of Christianity, Judaism, etc.?
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Ask them? I was calling out your criticism of the claim "gays should hate Islam", it didn't seem like you were criticizing them for not calling out other religions.
Off topic: As a gay person who has lived in the Western World and the Middle East, I do know for a fact which side I need to be more fearful of, but I do know that I need to be fearful and critical towards all of them.
Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
Christianity in Africa isn't as bad as Christianity in Africa?
Yes... it is.
Similarly, Islam in the US is extremely liberal and even more liberal than many extreme versions of Christianity in the US.
Why compare religions in x cultures to religions in y cultures when clearly to demonize one when clearly there's a completely different context. Mormons in the US are clearly, objectively, more hateful than American Muslims - so why are conservatives obsessed with Islam and not the bigotry in religions like Mormonism? |
I never said anything about X not being as bad as Y. I said that the act doesn't necessarily have to exist on the same scale. The comparison is valid and you've done similar comparisons by pointing out that sexists exist in both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party but that it exists on a much bigger and more serious scale within Republicans, etc.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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If the statement is true then the existence of bias doesn't matter. If something is true, it's true and it doesn't matter if it's coming from a racist or a social activist. So what are you saying, we should decide what is true and what is not based on who says or how we feel?
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
Ask them? I was calling out your criticism of the claim "gays should hate Islam", it didn't seem like you were criticizing them for not calling out other religions.
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Is English your first language or?  It was posted in a "**** far-right posters say" The statements weren't mocked depending on if they were true or not - they were mocked for the way they're used and the attitudes behind them. If you only looked at them to judge if it could be true or not and the social attitudes / bigotry that inspire them then smh, you still have a long ways to go
Quote:
Originally posted by Ecstasy
If the statement is true then the existence of bias doesn't matter. If something is true, it's true and it doesn't matter if it's coming from a racist or a social activist. So what are you saying, we should decide what is true and what is not based on who says or how we feel?
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If someone is going to misuse facts to suggest prejudice actions, yes it is. Are you serious?
Gays cheat more and are more likely to have STDs - does the truthfulness of those statements allow Christians to deny the right to marry because they view that as proof as to gays ruining the sanctity of it?
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
Is English your first language or? It was posted in a "**** far-right posters say" The statements weren't mocked depending on if they were true or not - they were mocked for the way they're used and the attitudes behind them. If you only looked at them to judge if it could be true or not and the social attitudes / bigotry that inspire them then smh, you still have a long ways to go
If someone is going to misuse facts to suggest prejudice actions, yes it is. Are you serious?
Gays cheat more and are more likely to have STDs - does the truthfulness of those statements allow Christians to deny the right to marry because they view that as proof as to gays ruining the sanctity of it? |
No, it does not allow the christians to do that. However, is the fact that christians use that fact against gays make it any less true that gays indeed do cheat more and are more likely to have STDs? In the end, much like black people committing disproportionate amount of crimes comment, it's a true statement and brings to the light an issue that needs to be dealt with. It is not for people to brush it off and ignore because it offends someone.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 5,905
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Oh wow, wait. Is saying you're not into transpeople transphobic? By that logic, wouldn't a straight guy saying he's not into guys be homophobic? And gays are inherently misogynistic? 
Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
I personnally dislike the all gay should hate religion thing. Being critical >>>>. Some religion have proved they're willing to evolve (not as quick as society but still)
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Well I agree in a sense, at least that many on the left try to shut down discussion because they fear judging other religions (ie: Islam) more harshly is racist or something. That being said, we should do our best to discredit all religion, if for nothing else than the fact that things tend to be cyclical. Progress unfortunately doesn't go in one direction, societies can progress and regress. Just look at how Islam was once the religion that fostered so many intellectual advancements, then following wars and invasions, they became more fundamentalist and destroyed so much of what they created. Christianity has also gone through periods where it was more benign, then for various reasons more militant readings of the texts became popular, leading to more fundamentalist applications of their beliefs. I mean, just look at how it is practiced in the west, compared to Africa for example. Both societies are equally valid in their actions, as the Bible is highly contradictory and does bounce back and forth from "love your neighbor, promote online kindness" to "kill all gays, hoes (anyone who had sex before marriage), etc, and YES this still applies to you xoxo". Organized religion will always be one of the BEST excuses societies can find to murder and persecute.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
One thing heckling doesn't understand is that a statement can be both true and rooted in bias at the same time, and that bias can still be rooted in prejudice, no matter how truthful the statement is.
Look at this:
"Black people kill more black people in the US than white people do"
Is this statement true?
Yes, it's factual. The majority of deaths of black people in the US are caused by other black people.
However, this often becomes a racist (yes - racist despite being true) talking point used by racists to silence black people and brush over the fact that black people are still disproportionately killed by police, locked up, etc. and then most crime, in general, is based on proxemics (ie: most crime is committed against people you live around), and that there's a plethora of societal issues that add context to that issue explaining the plight of black people.
Similarly, when a US conservative says something about Islam, it could very well be true, but is there bias?
Do they only ever talk about Islam? Is their focus on it rooted in a subconscious racialized hatred? For A LOT of the US and its conservative, it just objectively is.
Truthful, factual statements can still be used and misappropriated for hateful, prejudiced means.
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But these are ACTUAL races  Islam is a choice, an option, a selection.
If someone racist mentioned black-on-black crime from a racially-biased motive, I will respond by refraining from yelling "SUBCONSCIOUSLY RACIST!!!!!!!!" but by showing them white-on-white crime statistics, showing them police brutality incidents, etc. thus shutting them down with intelligent argumentation to debunk their claims.
If someone racist mentioned Muslim-on-Musim, Muslim-on-Women, or Muslim-on-Gay crime from a racially-biased motive (that being racist against Middle Easterns/Arabs), then I will applaud them and tell them to move on calling out people belonging to a religion (a CHOICE) and taking on such dangerous epidemics, while enlightening them that not all people of the Arab race commit such crimes and denouncing any possible racial misunderstanding.
Your psycho-analysis of trying to find out who hates Islam because they're secretly a Nazi racist prejudicial extremist right-wing maniac who is the most horrible person in the world and who hates it because they're genuinely appalled by its actions (then somehow simultaneously almost-always coming to the conclusion that it is the former) won't get you anywhere.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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Also you have a tendency to speak from a US perspective only, applying the social situations that exist in the USA to the rest of the world as if you've visited every country and know the exact situation and "systems" that are in place there.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
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"It's okay to hate brown people cause of their religion" JESUS.
Can we strike a deal that bans you from speaking on anything re: North America and all North American posters will stop talking about wherever you live? The sheer ignorance to speak on what you don't know.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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There he goes again, putting words into peoples mouths
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
Is English your first language or? It was posted in a "**** far-right posters say" The statements weren't mocked depending on if they were true or not - they were mocked for the way they're used and the attitudes behind them. If you only looked at them to judge if it could be true or not and the social attitudes / bigotry that inspire them then smh, you still have a long ways to go |
NOTHING about your post, the thread, or the general context even slightly implied you were criticizing them for not calling out other religions, and any person with basic common sense would look at your listing of "gays should hate Islam" as direct criticism towards the notion that gay people should hate Islam.
Attacking my English, especially while fully aware that I am a foreigner, isn't going to change mine or most people's initial interpretation of your quote.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ecstasy
There he goes again, putting words into peoples mouths
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And attacking people based on their country of origin/citizenship.
Absolutely deplorable.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 31,029
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It's not ok to hate brown people cause of their religion. It's ok to hate their religion despite the fact that they are brown.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
NOTHING about your post, the thread, or the general context even slightly implied you were criticizing them for not calling out other religions, and any person with basic common sense would look at your listing of "gays should hate Islam" as direct criticism towards the notion that gay people should hate Islam.
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Then maybe you should have acquainted yourself with the nuance of American conservatism before making a comment. For someone who hates SJWs, sis, you sure do a whole lot of what you hate, especially that whole speaking on issues w/o context or perspective thing.
You do this all the time - the extreme misconstruing of very simple and common definitions and it's like - is it on purpose or an innocent mistake cause, at this point, it's so consistent it's questionable.
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