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Discussion: How much of Lemonade did Beyonce write?
Member Since: 1/2/2011
Posts: 3,257
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mani.
How do YOU know? Are you there to witness it for yourself? Jesus.  |
I know that by her being the sole writer for her grammy winning album, speak now. and the fact that she has actually recorded small recordings of her initial stages of her work, such as blank space.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by *.Digambar.*
hunny, you're saying as long as its not published, you can take credit for things you're not even past of from the beginning. if you don't know how shady that is I don't what to tell you. if there was a painting which is not yet published and you decide to to give a slash of blue, it doesn't make you a painter.
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If giving a painting a dash of blue is ALL you ever do, the no you're not a painter.
If someone paints the background and you paint the foreground sometimes, if you paint the background and someone paints the foreground, you can still be considered a painter. You're not the world's best painter but literally NO ONE has said Beyoncé is the world's best writer, and yet you haters are acting like that's what we're arguing.
This thread is about her contribution to the album. Did you see anyone seriously say 100%? No? Then stop bothering yourself concerned about this album.
And yes I am saying if I have a song that is not released and you want to change it before releasing it yourself and then add your name to the list of contributors to the song (because you did contribute) that is fair.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,231
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShouldersSideways
Well, according to Jack White she took DHY and turned it into what it is. According to Mike Will, she wrote two verses on Formation. The 6 Inch demo is incredibly different than the finished product. The writer of Sandcastles said she rewrote the entire ending. She has the sole production credit on Daddy Lessons and made it the country song that it is.
I could go on.
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When so many people have worked on the song, it's bound to sound different when the first person finally hears it again if he or she was taken off the song after his or her contributions were deemed complete.
Who really cares at the end of the day? Most people don't really go digging that deep. Most people already know that mainstream artists have a lot of help, which is probably why pop music isn't as respected as other genres.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 3,042
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OK well this was fun but it's kinda boring to argue when the Hive are claiming that people deserve songwriting credits for "vocal production" so I'm out!
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Member Since: 5/29/2012
Posts: 26,389
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The Kelly Clarkson fan can stop finding an excuse to randomly promoting their fave, thank you.
Cheers. 
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salacious
When so many people have worked on the song, it's bound to sound different when the first person finally hears it again if he or she was taken off the song after his or her contributions were deemed complete.
Who really cares at the end of the day? Most people don't really go digging that deep. Most people already know that mainstream artists have a lot of help, which is probably why pop music isn't as respected as other genres.
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But.. Jack White produced Don't Hurt Yourself ... how would he be surprised at the final result? He said she made it what it was, so she did.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 4,920
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
This is what is frustrating to me. I like and respect Beyonce a lot. There is SO much she's good at that sets her apart. But she's a perfectionist, and seems to want to be seen as perfect, good at everything she does, perfect in every area of her career, and I feel like she's dishonest with songwriting, giving herself more credit than she deserves.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not having writing credit on your songs. Especially when you're as much of a performer as Beyonce. It's not like she's a puppet....she's the major force in creating her albums, she picks songs and caters them to her liking. She's probably one of the most involved Pop artists at the moment and that deserves plenty of respect, not to mention her incredible performing and singing ability. I hold songwriting in high regard and it just bothers me a bit to see Beyonce not being super real about it, and to be too scared to release music without her listed as a writer on it.
Whitney Houston didn't write most of her material, and nobody cares because her vocal talent alone was enough to shine. Taylor Swift writers all of her own material because that's her forte, that's where her talent lies and she wants to be known for that. Besides, most people have no clue and don't care who writes a song. I don't consider Beyonce a force as a songwriter in the way that people like Taylor and Adele are, and that's 100% fine since she's the best performer out there right now and still very involved in every aspect of her career. I just wish she was more honest about it.
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Wait...so you rather if she omit her contributions to the album, for the convenience of your comfort. Got it!
Oh please! Taylor doesn't write all her songs. The only reason there's any focus on that, is because she's not a great singer or dancer. Plus spare me the pseudo praises, Adele and Taylor writings are nothing to write home about. They are not on the same level as Babyface, Diane Warren, Prince and Mariah Carey. They can't even see Sia.
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Member Since: 5/2/2012
Posts: 15,418
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mani.
Why are you using this as a lame way to promote Kelly Clarkson? |
Like as soon as that person shows up in any involved discussion about Bey's writing credits or vocals, it's literally a countdown for the random unsolicited Kelly Clarkson video spamming to commence.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,973
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Not people making a thread about percentages 
These Grammy nominations really has you SHOOK
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Member Since: 6/6/2012
Posts: 25,442
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by VOSS
OK well this was fun but it's kinda boring to argue when the Hive are claiming that people deserve songwriting credits for "vocal production" so I'm out!
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Well Beyoncé also co-produces most of her songs, and that adds to final elements of the song which can affect melody etc.
And also a lot of Beyoncé tracks rely on her vocals alone for melody. If she's making the vocals it affects the rest.
AND like... Beyoncé has a pretty distinct style. How can she have worked with so many people and yet not do any work and have that coherent style in so many of her songs? The verses of Formation, for example, are classic Beyoncé-isms: sassy, fun, snappy lyrics. That is present in so many of her similar song she's written.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 9/14/2010
Posts: 78,921
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Member Since: 1/2/2011
Posts: 3,257
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
That's not true actually.
Sometimes she receives songs and changes them, other times she has writing camps where she is involve from the ground up (B'Day, Self-Titled).
And no, this is very simple to understand. I'm not sure why you're thinking I've misunderstood.
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oh dear lord. when she receives a song and changes them, she is editing the song!
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Member Since: 7/12/2010
Posts: 9,704
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Quote:
Originally posted by *.Digambar.*
I know that by her being the sole writer for her grammy winning album, speak now. and the fact that she has actually recorded small recordings of her initial stages of her work, such as blank space.
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Or.. She could have simply "stolen" or "bought" her writing credits, just as you accuse Beyonce of doing so. Point is... You don't really know because your ass WASN'T there. None of us truly know what is going on from behind the scenes.
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Member Since: 2/20/2012
Posts: 24,225
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Let's put it this way: she won't be remembered for being a talented songwriter!
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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This is a girl that even Prince was surprised to find out how much she knew about music.
She has been doing music since she was a kid. And not just for fun, like full summer boot camps.
She's worked with writers since she was a child.
She's worked with writers for the great majority of her life.
How are people just assuming that she has no writing ability whatsoever, point blank?
Where are all these collaborators coming for her? She's had MANY collaborators, all we have is one producer saying in non-specific way that if someone like Beyoncé wants a credit she should get it. Aside from that all we have are people praising her contributions.
Why does her songwriting bother you so much?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,973
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Quote:
Originally posted by Havoc
Sandcastles:
As Beyonce worked on the project – she received “Sandcastles” in February 2015, Berry said -- the songwriter knew he wanted to keep ownership of the record instead of signing a publishing agreement, but that meant making great sacrifices.
“I wanted to own it and that’s a harder road. That meant being homeless and sleeping in cars and garages and studios and that’s what I was willing to do,” said Berry, who now lives in Woodland Hills. “I knew I couldn’t sign a publishing deal knowing what they are -- essentially a high-interest loan. Why would I take that kind of deal?”
On the final version of the record, which Berry heard ahead of the album’s April release, Beyonce wrote a more hopeful ending than the one Berry originally penned.
“And your heart is broken cause I walked away / Show me your scars and I won't walk away,” Beyonce sang. “And I know I promised that I couldn't stay, baby / [But] every promise don't work out that way.”
Daddys Lessons
Beyoncé is a scientist of songs. I’ve never seen anyone work the way she works. She definitely changes the song structures. She can take two songs, say, “I like two lines, I like the melody then let me use that for a verse and a bridge and write the whole middle.” It’s more of a collaboration. You never know what she’ll like. I came to her with a bunch of songs and she was like, “I like that verse, I like the idea.” But she definitely doesn’t take things as is, at least not from me.1 I came in on the Jack White song [“Don’t Hurt Yourself”] and helped finish it.
[...]
You’d written Daddy Lessons before you worked with her?
When I played it for her, I was like, “This is one of my favorite songs.” [b]She was like, “This is my life.” I told her, “You know what, take it, do what you want with it.” She went and re-produced it, she changed some words, added the bridge, it’s hers. She didn’t talk to me about her father. We didn’t go into details. I see their relationship in the media just like everyone else. I watched the HBO special just like everyone else.
Formation:
Will later ran into Bey at a hotel-room hangout with LeBron James and the Cavaliers, he says. “And Bey was like, ‘Yo, I like that “formation” idea.’ And I told her what I was thinking about the woman empowerment, and she was like, ‘Yeah I kinda like that idea.’ And she just left it like that.” Although Beyoncé wrote new verses for the song, she built around the central mantra. “We were just thinking about it being a female anthem,” Will added. “Because I knew I just wanted a banger with Beyoncé, like a ‘Single Ladies,’ but I wanted it to be a new kind of chant.”
Will spent a week in the studio with Beyoncé working on the track. She “took this one little idea we came up with on the way to Coachella, put it in a pot, stirred it up, and came with this smash,” he says. “She takes ideas and puts them with her own ideas, and makes this masterpiece. She’s all about collaborating.” He added, “That’s what makes her Beyoncé. Being able to know what she wants. A lot of people don’t know what they want.
Dont Hurt Yourself:
You're a business partner with Jay Z in his Tidal streaming service as well. Is that how Beyoncé got the idea of coming over and ringing your bell?
You know, I just talked to her and she said, "I wanna be in a band with you." [Laughs.] I said, "Really? Well, I'd love to do something." I've always loved her voice — I mean, I think she has the kind of soul singing voice of the days of Betty Davis or Aretha Franklin. She took just sort of a sketch of a lyrical outline and turned into the most bodacious, vicious, incredible song. I don't even know what you'd classify it as — soul, rock and roll, whatever. "Don't Hurt Yourself" is incredibly intense; I'm so amazed at what she did with it
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There's no need to bring receipts here. The intention of this thread isn't to have a conversation about songwriting or get facts. Receipts will be ignored.
All songwriters are credited, what even is the point of this?
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by chilicheese01
Let's put it this way: she won't be remembered for being a talented songwriter!
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No one said she would be though.
And most talented songwriters aren't remembered for being talented anything else.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 4,920
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Quote:
Originally posted by VOSS
OK well this was fun but it's kinda boring to argue when the Hive are claiming that people deserve songwriting credits for "vocal production" so I'm out!
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Well the conversation was doomed the minute y'all suggested songwriting was limited to writing lyrics. Anyhow see you back in 2-6 months time, when y'all bring this up again, with the same tired debunked rumors.
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Member Since: 1/2/2011
Posts: 3,257
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
If giving a painting a dash of blue is ALL you ever do, the no you're not a painter.
If someone paints the background and you paint the foreground sometimes, if you paint the background and someone paints the foreground, you can still be considered a painter. You're not the world's best painter but literally NO ONE has said Beyoncé is the world's best writer, and yet you haters are acting like that's what we're arguing.
This thread is about her contribution to the album. Did you see anyone seriously say 100%? No? Then stop bothering yourself concerned about this album.
And yes I am saying if I have a song that is not released and you want to change it before releasing it yourself and then add your name to the list of contributors to the song (because you did contribute) that is fair.
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judging from the smack into you and smash into you debacle, it does seem like all she did was throw in a slash of blue.
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