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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Honestly the biggest legacy this election will leave, regardless of who wins, is the sharp right turn the Republican party took. Do you really think that all these people who took Trump as basically a messiah and have so passianly embraced his views (and vice-versa) are going to support a "moderate" Republican candidate in 2020? And if Hillary wins, all this hate they feel will only grow. If it not Trump for the next circle, they're going for people like Pence, Huckabee, Cruz etc., if not worse. This monster will not die in 2 days.
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Member Since: 3/16/2012
Posts: 2,683
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Matteo
That is just not true.
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How is not true?
The whole idea behind Trump's political rise is that he "tells it like it is" and says what most conservatives are afraid to say out loud. We know this includes racist rhetoric and white nationalism (coded "Make America Great Again"). He began his campaign with a call to ban an entire group of people, Muslims, from entering the country. The fringe/alt-right have been desperately waiting for a candidate like him, and it turns out there's way more of them than anyone previously thought. The Republican party is going backwards, absolutely.
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Member Since: 12/21/2010
Posts: 51,088
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I still think that we'll end up with Centrist, Alt-Right, and Socialist parties.
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Member Since: 12/21/2010
Posts: 51,088
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
Honestly the biggest legacy of this election will leave, regardless of who wins, is the sharp right turn the Republican party took. Do you really think that all these people who took Trump as basically a messiah and have so passianly embraced his views (and vice-versa) are going to support a "moderate" Republican candidate in 2020? And if Hillary wins, all this hate they feel will only grow. If it not Trump for the next circle, they're going for people like Pence, Huckabee, Cruz etc., if not worse. This monster will not die in 2 days. |
See my recent post - you'll have the youth #NeverTrump Republicans skew closer to the HRC-type Dems to form a centrist Party, while the Trump-Breitbart-Info Wars idiots will form their own (losing) party with Trump TV as its' form of media.
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Member Since: 3/18/2011
Posts: 8,234
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jacketh
Its interesting that you align with conservatives more on the economy. Do you realise that the 2008 crash was down to, largely, the conservative ideology of Reaganomics (and, effectively, no regulation of financial services and banks) - it gave a free pass for the banks and Wall Street to do whatever the damn hell they like. Bill Clinton is is responsible as well. He carried through Reaganomics.
It is the same over here in the UK. Thatcher (with Reagan) deregulated everything. Thatcher's Chancellor at the time even admits that "that an unintended consequence of the Big Bang was the financial crisis of 2007-2008."
And I'd argue that the financial crash of 2007/2008 is the reason why you have populist figures all over the West gaining traction on the right (Farage, Trump, La Penn) and on the left (Corbyn, Podemos, Sanders)... because ordinary people have had to pay for that crash, which they were not responsible for. The centre ground isn't offering any answers to why that happened, why it won't happen again. It isn't providing any answers to Syria, or immigration... |
The thing about economic policy is that it's vastly complicated. Due to the interrelated world economy, the variables are so dynamic that it's difficult to make an accurate prediction. I would argue that republican and democratic ideaolgies about the economy can both work but it has to be at the right time. Any change in economic policy may take months or longer to see the true ramifications of said policy. We found out the hard way that Reaganomics was a bad idea and the Bush stimulus package wasn't big enough. The propensity for people to save was larger than the propensity to spend at that time. The stimulus package should have been much larger and maybe that would have changed the outcome.
That said, I don't think cutting government revenue is a good idea for our current position. But I also don't know that increased spending will do good either (or spending at a certain point). But I'm not an economist and could be wrong.
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Member Since: 12/21/2010
Posts: 51,088
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You can't get rid of Conservatives altogether; that's how we end up with a third party system. Plenty of youth still support the alt-reich.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,585
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Quote:
Originally posted by KittyCat
How is not true?
The whole idea behind Trump's political rise is that he "tells it like it is" and says what most conservatives are afraid to say out loud. We know this includes racist rhetoric and white nationalism (coded "Make America Great Again"). He began his campaign with a call to ban an entire group of people, Muslims, from entering the country. The fringe/alt-right have been desperately waiting for a candidate like him, and it turns out there's way more of them than anyone previously thought. The Republican party is going backwards, absolutely.
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This. It wouldn't surprise me if he tries to run again next time and ends up running as an independent after he loses the nomination (I do think this time around there will be no more than 7 canidates for the r's at the beginning and he will probably make it to the top 3.
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Member Since: 9/10/2011
Posts: 20,982
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Quote:
Originally posted by KittyCat
How is not true?
The whole idea behind Trump's political rise is that he "tells it like it is" and says what most conservatives are afraid to say out loud. We know this includes racist rhetoric and white nationalism (coded "Make America Great Again"). He began his campaign with a call to ban an entire group of people, Muslims, from entering the country. The fringe/alt-right have been desperately waiting for a candidate like him, and it turns out there's way more of them than anyone previously thought. The Republican party is going backwards, absolutely.
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Hinting that most conservatives are racist/white nationalists is simply offensive and certainly false. While I disagree with what they have to say, you can't stack them into a singular group and label them that way just because their choice of a presidential candidate was an unfortunate tragedy. Yes, Trump is a racist bully who should never have made it this far, but that doesn't make his voters racist bullies as well.
There's more to the GOP than the upper part of their presidential ticket of one campaign cycle.
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by BoyOnBoy Wonder
I still think that we'll end up with Centrist, Alt-Right, and Socialist parties.
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I think both major parties will suffer a break. On the DCN will be the far-left, progressives ( the Bernie bros) who will probably join the Green Party. The RNC is the one who'll suffer a bigger chance, and it really depends on the direction they take after the election. If they try to go back to what they were before 2016, I can really see the far-right/Alt-right forming a UKIP/National Front type of party, and taking a BIG number of Trump supporters with them.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 11/14/2008
Posts: 24,988
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
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Why do people keep saying Trump is leading the national polls? I thought he wasn't for a while?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 1,957
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Republicans are facing a much bigger split prospect than Democrats, but I can't see either happening. One's broadly centre-'left' and the other centre- (or in UK terms far-) right. I can't see that changing and I can't see the Democrats going further to the left, that's for sure.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,585
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Quote:
Originally posted by St. Charles
Why do people keep saying Trump is leading the national polls? I thought he wasn't for a while?
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he isn't.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 3,830
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I don't like Hillary but one has to admit, she was a very pretty woman even in her late 40s.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 34,855
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How does the alt-right movement stack up next to the Tea Party in terms of scale? At one point the latter was being hailed as the final nail in the coffin of the Republican Party until it eventually fizzled out. I can't say I see things going much differently this time around.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 15,224
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jacketh
Its interesting that you align with conservatives more on the economy. Do you realise that the 2008 crash was down to, largely, the conservative ideology of Reaganomics (and, effectively, no regulation of financial services and banks) - it gave a free pass for the banks and Wall Street to do whatever the damn hell they like. Bill Clinton is is responsible as well. He carried through Reaganomics.
It is the same over here in the UK. Thatcher (with Reagan) deregulated everything. Thatcher's Chancellor at the time even admits that "that an unintended consequence of the Big Bang was the financial crisis of 2007-2008."
And I'd argue that the financial crash of 2007/2008 is the reason why you have populist figures all over the West gaining traction on the right (Farage, Trump, La Penn) and on the left (Corbyn, Podemos, Sanders)... because ordinary people have had to pay for that crash, which they were not responsible for. The centre ground isn't offering any answers to why that happened, why it won't happen again. It isn't providing any answers to Syria, or immigration... |
!!!
I hate this myth that Conservatives are stronger on the economy, it just isn't true.
The Republicans are getting more right wing and the Democrats are getting more left wing.
This is happening not just in America but around the world.
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Member Since: 9/10/2011
Posts: 20,982
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazare
How does the alt-right movement stack up next to the Tea Party in terms of scale? At one point the latter was being hailed as the final nail in the coffin of the Republican Party until it eventually fizzled out. I can't say I see things going much differently this time around.
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This 1000000000x.
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Member Since: 10/22/2007
Posts: 1,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by KittyCat
How is not true?
The whole idea behind Trump's political rise is that he "tells it like it is" and says what most conservatives are afraid to say out loud. We know this includes racist rhetoric and white nationalism (coded "Make America Great Again"). He began his campaign with a call to ban an entire group of people, Muslims, from entering the country. The fringe/alt-right have been desperately waiting for a candidate like him, and it turns out there's way more of them than anyone previously thought. The Republican party is going backwards, absolutely.
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True. I am an Asian and married to a white person. During my college years, I experienced racism in classroom so many times. It wasn't blatant, but white people in my group never listened to my opinion or talked to me in general. Likewise, they underestimated my ability, which frustrated me a lot. At the end of the day, I studied hard and proved them wrong. What I was trying to say was that the majority of white people are racist and think they are better than any other races.
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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I really wish I could make a documentary or write a book about this election and how it affected the American society. I find it so incredibly fascinating (and scary lol). I really think we're witnessing a singular moment in history.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,585
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But IMAGINE the kii's when Donald runs again out of spite next time, comes down as one of the final 3 people to get the nomination, loses it, then runs as an independent. The republican party would be split. 60-70 would support the nominee while 30-40 would support Trump. Hillary would probably end up winning Arizona, Texas, Utah, Idaho, Georgia, and Idaho. heck. She'd have a chance at all 50 states in that scenario.
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