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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 832
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Liar
George W. Bush wasn't that bad, he was actually very nice all tho it does surprise me that Barbara Bush became this gay rights activist in Texas after they left office but during their presidency there was no mention of gay rights makes you wonder how many Republicans are pro LGBT but don't display it because of politics  |
Many Republicans are pro-LGBT but don't deem social issues as relevant as economic ones.
The issue is that it used it be somewhat understandable considering the times (til 2000s), but nowadays it's becoming increasingly impossible to rationalize being simultaneously pro-LGBT and Republican.
My brother is a Republican because he's a ideologically a fiscal conservative and honestly that's fine. Having differences on economic positions is a way to drive change. Social conservatism however has devolved into outright bigotry. Their current platform is the bigoted it has ever been. and I'm grateful my brother doesn't accept that. He has ditched the GOP for Johsnon, believing he's a better alternative
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Member Since: 9/17/2011
Posts: 9,051
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6_INCH_HEELS
Yeah. What's also bothersome is that they complain about how Obama is the worst POTUS ever (ok, Andrew Jackson was the premiere asshole, but history doesn't tell this) and how he's ruined the government, yet they overlook the fact that the majority of government is ran by the GOP. They are essentially upset with themselves. 
They're also upset that women, minorities, and gays have more power, rights, and freedom than ever before. |
And so is their own constituents/party lol They have literally sat on their ass for 8 years and done nothing and they wonder why Trump was able to swoop in and hijack their party. The fact that they thought that refusing to work with Obama on anything would actually set them up nicely to be the alternative choice in 2016 lmao
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 14,942
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Quote:
Originally posted by RihRihGirrrl
And so is their own constituents/party lol They have literally sat on their ass for 8 years and done nothing and they wonder why Trump was able to swoop in and hijack their party. The fact that they thought that refusing to work with Obama on anything would actually set them up nicely to be the alternative choice in 2016 lmao
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 They played themselves. They have contributed to their own destruction and still refuse to denounce the man who doesn't care about their party or party loyalty and have called them idiots time and time again. The fact they they're stupid enough to feel as though they HAVE to endorse Trump is laughable, while he continues to sow dissent within their ranks and destroy the party. If he should ever become POTUS, do the party leaders really think he's going to do them any favors?
Its very fun to watch. 
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Member Since: 9/17/2011
Posts: 9,051
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6_INCH_HEELS
They played themselves. They have contributed to their own destruction and still refuse to denounce the man who doesn't care about their party or party loyalty and have called them idiots time and time again. The fact they they're stupid enough to feel as though they HAVE to endorse Trump is laughable, while he continues to sow dissent within their ranks and destroy the party. If he should ever become POTUS, do the party leaders really think he's going to do them any favors?
Its very fun to watch. |
An absolute mess!! They did an autopsy in 2012 to figure out what went wrong, it doesn't take a biopsy to see that Trump is a cancer lol
Ahhhhh we're living in good time folks, when the Republican party has essentially destroyed themselves because of the deep seated hate they have for a black President and and they're absolutely determination to be useless for 8 damn years lol
Anyways, I wonder if they choose to continue being incompetent when Madame President Clinton steps into office 
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Member Since: 2/11/2012
Posts: 6,737
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lebanese Dude
Many Republicans are pro-LGBT but don't deem social issues as relevant as economic ones.
The issue is that it used it be somewhat understandable considering the times (til 2000s), but nowadays it's becoming increasingly impossible to rationalize being simultaneously pro-LGBT and Republican.
My brother is a Republican because he's a ideologically a fiscal conservative and honestly that's fine. Having differences on economic positions is a way to drive change. Social conservatism however has devolved into outright bigotry. Their current platform is the bigoted it has ever been. and I'm grateful my brother doesn't accept that. He has ditched the GOP for Johsnon, believing he's a better alternative
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This i don't understand because if you put Gary Johnson in a line with Trump, Cruz, Sanders and Hillary, Gary Johnson has more align with Hillary and Sanders especially with civil liberties. Going from Trump to Johnson makes no sense because they have nothing in common and going from Hillary to Johnson actually makes sense! But it's not suppose to be that way
I feel a 3rd party vote for Johnson effects Hillary and benefits Trump. I watched the Libertarian town hall 2 nights away and the audience portion of asking questions they were majority all Bernie supporters or people that were leaning towards Hillary only one said he was leaning Trump
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
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Johnson is a right-leaning candidate.
Libertarians are literally a far-right party.
Johnson has much more in common with someone like Trump than say... Johnson has in common with another third-party candidate like Stein.
Libertarians are still, by and large, a party with anti-government, anarcho-capitalist and far-right beliefs that stem from a hatred of poor people. There's some who think seat-belt laws are "over-reach".
Johnson isn't a centrist on social issues cause he cares. Libertarians would rather not go to war to save money than to save the thousands of lives lost in a war.
US political parties are set up the way they are cause they fall like this:
Far Left - Green
Left & Center-Left - Democrats
Center-Right & Right - Republicans
Far Right - Libertarians
Except now the religious zealots and xenophobes of the Republicans are pushing the party much more far right, while Johnson and his "keep government out of everything" beliefs let him slip by and appear as a center candidate with right-leaning beliefs even though his economic beliefs are extremely far-right.
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Member Since: 10/16/2005
Posts: 16,872
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Watching Hillary's live press conference. She almost called Donald Trump her husband. 
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Member Since: 2/11/2012
Posts: 6,737
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Sorry but I don't see it  are you seriously implying that Gary Johnson favors more of a Ted Cruz or Donald Trump who are basically anti anyone not white, rich or Christian? Are you fact checking?
I think ya are focusing more that the Libertarians originated from the Republician party but not realizing that Libertarians 2016 are nothing alike to a Republican 2016  .
Libertarians in 2016 wanna protect Religous Freedoms as long a they don't discriminate against anyone and they fully embrace #BLM and LGBT Marriage Equality.
A Republican 2016 are still putting gay conversion therapy on their platforms , overturning of marriage and completely ignoring #BLM yet you say Libertarians are far more right and spread more hatred?
Libertarians also believe in science something the Republican party doesn't believe in. In foreign and economic policy they nothing comparable to Ted Cruz or Donald Trump besides maybe abolishing the IRS.. Which I think is a good idea
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,870
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Omg Hillary slayed that news conference 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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Quote:
Originally posted by Price of Fame
I assume you're posting this because of that nonsensical headline...?
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No. I'm posting it to dispel the Republican myth that Obama is the most disliked President in the history of this country. He's up there equal with their God Reagan.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Liar
Sorry but I don't see it are you seriously implying that Gary Johnson favors more of a Ted Cruz or Donald Trump who are basically anti anyone not white, rich or Christian? Are you fact checking?
I think ya are focusing more that the Libertarians originated from the Republician party but not realizing that Libertarians 2016 are nothing alike to a Republican 2016 .
Libertarians in 2016 wanna protect Religous Freedoms as long a they don't discriminate against anyone and they fully embrace #BLM and LGBT Marriage Equality.
A Republican 2016 are still putting gay conversion therapy on their platforms , overturning of marriage and completely ignoring #BLM yet you say Libertarians are far more right and spread more hatred?
Libertarians also believe in science something the Republican party doesn't believe in. In foreign and economic policy they nothing comparable to Ted Cruz or Donald Trump besides maybe abolishing the IRS.. Which I think is a good idea |
Gary Johnson has/was:
- come out in favor of laws banning burqas (and no matter what you feel about them, it's an ironic position for someone who claims to be about personal LIBERTIES to hold)
- come out in full support of Israel and its colonizing state
- supported military intervention in Uganda
- defended Guantanamo and was against closing it
- is a full supporter of the private prison industry
- is against net neutrality
- literally wants to get rid of the minimum wage
You're trying to deflect the evils in the Libetarians' by comparing it to the evils of the Republicans, when both are just different forms of evil. Johnson's views on education, unions, and the economy are terrifying and anyone who doesn't hate poor people should be scared of his views. You can't even separate the economy from social issues because fiscal-conservatism most negatively affects those who are marginalized for other issues.
I don't even know how ANY Bernie supporter can be for him - you're going from a socialist in favor of beefing up our social safety net programs to help poor people not fall in the cracks of society to a man who literally thinks poor people are a natural part of of the free market and doesn't think "the government should have a say in who the winners and losers in life are".
The most frustrating thing of this election has been this weird, misinformed belief Johnson is progressive because he's against politicians using the law to oppress people, when he's just as much against politicians using the law to protect people from being oppressed. He doesn't want gay people, poor people, people of color, etc. protected by the law. He truly thinks every human has equal experiences and the law shouldn't be involved. At least people know Trump's an idiot, while people promoting a man like Johnson and his anarchist-lite party as "centrist" is scary.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 832
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Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
Gary Johnson has/was:
- come out in favor of laws banning burqas (and no matter what you feel about them, it's an ironic position for someone who claims to be about personal LIBERTIES to hold)
- come out in full support of Israel and its colonizing state
- supported military intervention in Uganda
- defended Guantanamo and was against closing it
- is a full supporter of the private prison industry
- is against net neutrality
You're trying to deflect the evils in the Libetarians' by comparing it to the evils of the Republicans, when both are just different forms of evil. Johnson's views on education, unions, and the economy are terrifying and anyone who doesn't hate poor people should be scared of his views. You can't even separate the economy from social issues because fiscal-conservatism most negatively affects those who are marginalized for other issues.
I don't even know how ANY Bernie supporter can be for him - you're going from a socialist in favor of beefing up our social safety net programs to help poor people not fall in the cracks of society to a man who literally thinks poor people are a natural part of of the free market and doesn't think "the government should have a say in who the winners and losers in life are".
The most frustrating thing of this election has been this weird, misinformed belief Johnson is progressive because he's against politicians using the law to oppression people, when he's just as much against politicians using the law to protect people from being oppressed. He doesn't want gay people, poor people, people of color, etc. protected by the law. He truly thinks every human has equal experiences and the law shouldn't be involved. At least people know Trump's an idiot, while people promoting a man like Johnson and his anarchist-lite party as "centrist" is scary. |
You are making the implication that a Libertarian president would be able to effectively promote Libertarian ideologies. The fact of the matter is that the down ticket candidates are overwhelmingly Democratic or Republican. The president isn't a dictator.
This means that he has to appeal to either (or both) in order to be effective at all. So someone voting for Johnson can be assured that his economic policies are more or less conservative while appealing to liberal values on the economic scale.
That makes him a "centrist" overall. Johnson is far right on economics that's true, but it would be a disservice to call him one in terms of almost every other issue. Perhaps he won't address civil issues as much as Hillary, but at least he wouldn't regress them as Trump would.
Looking at your points, several of them are foreign policy in nature. Frankly I find the notion of "perpetual peace" to also be ridiculously idyllic and the fact that is a "liberal" ideology to be an archaic remnant of libtard hippy culture. War is terrible, but is sometimes necessary, especially when there are forces out there who don't have peace on their minds. The world isn't as peaceful as many believe. It's all an illusion, maintained by the promise of mutually assured destruction (and I'm not even talking about nuclear weapons).
Don't call pure capitalism "evil". It is no more "evil" than any other economic belief. It is merely ruthless. So it depends on what you hold more important. You sound like someone who holds socialist believes very highly. Even I, a liberal, find many socialist ideologies to be ridiculous.
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Member Since: 9/16/2011
Posts: 50,981
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalker
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There's only been one second term president (one president at all, actually) between Obama and Clinton. 
Quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Liar
George W. Bush wasn't that bad, he was actually very nice all tho it does surprise me that Barbara Bush became this gay rights activist in Texas after they left office but during their presidency there was no mention of gay rights makes you wonder how many Republicans are pro LGBT but don't display it because of politics |
Are you mixing up your Bushes? Barbara Bush is married to George H W Bush (41), and is the mother of George W Bush (43). GWB was definitely "that bad," and he spent half of his presidency raving about "family values" (which is coded language for "anti-gay"). I think he also supported a constitutional amendment defining marriage as one man, one woman. Idk about GHWB (Barbara's husband), though. He was before my lifetime, and books that I've read about the history and politics of the gay rights movement haven't really mentioned him.
Quote:
Originally posted by 6_INCH_HEELS
Yeah. What's also bothersome is that they complain about how Obama is the worst POTUS ever (ok, Andrew Jackson was the premiere asshole, but history doesn't tell this) and how he's ruined the government, yet they overlook the fact that the majority of government is ran by the GOP. They are essentially upset with themselves.
They're also upset that women, minorities, and gays have more power, rights, and freedom than ever before. |
People have always blamed the sitting president for whatever's happening during his time in office. You can probably blame that on people's ignorance of how the government actually works, or on the fact that the president is one highly-visible figurehead of the government, which makes him an easier mark than the hundreds of lower-level politicians.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,870
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I only like Johnson because he wants to legalize cannabis
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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I posted that because Obama's approval rate is high and just as high as Ronald Reagan. That's important... ignore the headline. It's a good thing for Hillary.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Obama's Iran ransom excuse is starting to fall apart
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Member Since: 4/16/2011
Posts: 3,776
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Daddy Clinton was untouchable...who else could get their dick sucked in & out the Oval office...lie about it under oath & still reign supreme. when will your fave??
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Member Since: 9/16/2011
Posts: 50,981
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Quote:
Originally posted by giRLbye.
Daddy Clinton was untouchable...who else could get their dick sucked in & out the Oval office...lie about it under oath & still reign supreme. when will your fave??
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This 2014 survey asked 162 poli-sci scholars to rank the presidents and Clinton came in at #8. 
Obama's at 18. I feel like he'd probably jump up a few spots if the last two years of his presidency were taken into consideration.
Bush 2 is in the bottom ten. 
Jackson in the top ten. 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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Well, as evil and stupid a man Jackson was, he did basically stop a civil war from happening (though that proved to be inevitable). But yeah, I can't really support Jackson. He was kinda a tyrant.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 15,668
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Liar
Sorry but I don't see it are you seriously implying that Gary Johnson favors more of a Ted Cruz or Donald Trump who are basically anti anyone not white, rich or Christian? Are you fact checking?
I think ya are focusing more that the Libertarians originated from the Republician party but not realizing that Libertarians 2016 are nothing alike to a Republican 2016 .
Libertarians in 2016 wanna protect Religous Freedoms as long a they don't discriminate against anyone and they fully embrace #BLM and LGBT Marriage Equality.
A Republican 2016 are still putting gay conversion therapy on their platforms , overturning of marriage and completely ignoring #BLM yet you say Libertarians are far more right and spread more hatred?
Libertarians also believe in science something the Republican party doesn't believe in. In foreign and economic policy they nothing comparable to Ted Cruz or Donald Trump besides maybe abolishing the IRS.. Which I think is a good idea |
Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
Gary Johnson has/was:
- come out in favor of laws banning burqas (and no matter what you feel about them, it's an ironic position for someone who claims to be about personal LIBERTIES to hold)
- come out in full support of Israel and its colonizing state
- supported military intervention in Uganda
- defended Guantanamo and was against closing it
- is a full supporter of the private prison industry
- is against net neutrality
- literally wants to get rid of the minimum wage
You're trying to deflect the evils in the Libetarians' by comparing it to the evils of the Republicans, when both are just different forms of evil. Johnson's views on education, unions, and the economy are terrifying and anyone who doesn't hate poor people should be scared of his views. You can't even separate the economy from social issues because fiscal-conservatism most negatively affects those who are marginalized for other issues.
I don't even know how ANY Bernie supporter can be for him - you're going from a socialist in favor of beefing up our social safety net programs to help poor people not fall in the cracks of society to a man who literally thinks poor people are a natural part of of the free market and doesn't think "the government should have a say in who the winners and losers in life are".
The most frustrating thing of this election has been this weird, misinformed belief Johnson is progressive because he's against politicians using the law to oppress people, when he's just as much against politicians using the law to protect people from being oppressed. He doesn't want gay people, poor people, people of color, etc. protected by the law. He truly thinks every human has equal experiences and the law shouldn't be involved. At least people know Trump's an idiot, while people promoting a man like Johnson and his anarchist-lite party as "centrist" is scary. |
Bernie supporters support Johnson because he has a great record (unlike Hillary), supports most of Bernie's foreign policy and social policy, and then some. The Libertarian party's extreme is very anarchist-lite, but Johnson himself is NOT. He's a moderate in his own party - people need to understand that. Just as Hillary is a moderate for her party, Johnson is a moderate for his. There are MANY reasons for Bernie supporters to support Johnson - just as there are many for them to support Hillary. It all depends on what views they hold as more important - liberal economic policy or liberal social and foreign policy.
Israel deserves support. The second we don't support them, the liberties of all their people are stripped because literally everyone wants them dead. Israel needs to back out of the West Bank but other than that - in my opinion as someone with family in Israel - any candidate that supports Israel is a candidate worth supporting.
Private prisons are a good thing - but we need to redo our entire law and order system anyways. A lot of the problems with private prisons are solved by reducing criminal activity and putting slightly more regulations on them.
Minimum wage is a tough issue. You have to go against logic on it in a way. It literally hurts the economy more than it helps it after a certain point. Obv. if he were president, he couldn't get the minimum wage lowered/eliminated, it would likely stay the same or raise to $10 max, though. Whereas under Hillary it's nearly guaranteed to rise to $15 or a living wage. Both of which hurt the economy more than you'd think - esp. living wage which could cause MASSIVE issues down the road.
Education shouldn't be run by the state. You can see the whole debate about that a few dozen pages back.
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