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Discussion: Beyonce: same level as Madonna, Mariah, Whitney, Janet?
Member Since: 9/4/2008
Posts: 11,720
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She's above all of them.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,816
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No she isn't and that is not a bad thing at all.
Madonna, Whitney, Janet, and Mariah came in different decades so they had plenty of time to establish themselves and build up their legacies, impact, and influence.
Beyoncé (as a solo artist) came from a different generation with the likes of Britney Spears, Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Christina Aguilera and etc. The same way Madonna, Mariah, Janet, and Whitney paved the way for these ladies is exactly what Beyoncé, Britney, Rihanna, Gaga, Xtina, and etc are doing currently for the new generation of ladies.
Not to mention, these ladies came at different ages in their careers. It's silly to point out who did what 20 years in their career when Beyoncé, Britney, and etc came on the scene at like 16, 17, and etc. You can't compare that to 20 years of someone's career who launched a career in their 20s. As females get older, radio and the public get more ageist and ageist.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,816
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I also forgot to mention, in this day and age social media plays a huge factor in popularity.
People want to keep mentioning Spotify views and YouTube views when these did not exist in the 80s or 90s when all these females were in their prime.
Imagine the impact that would've had during that time period. Think of the millions upon millions of views these women could have ranked at that time.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,717
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Quote:
Originally posted by C.Damen
No she isn't and that is not a bad thing at all.
Madonna, Whitney, Janet, and Mariah came in different decades so they had plenty of time to establish themselves and build up their legacies, impact, and influence.
Beyoncé (as a solo artist) came from a different generation with the likes of Britney Spears, Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Christina Aguilera and etc. The same way Madonna, Mariah, Janet, and Whitney paved the way for these ladies is exactly what Beyoncé, Britney, Rihanna, Gaga, Xtina, and etc are doing currently for the new generation of ladies.
Not to mention, these ladies came at different ages in their careers. It's silly to point out who did what 20 years in their career when Beyoncé, Britney, and etc came on the scene at like 16, 17, and etc. You can't compare that to 20 years of someone's career who launched a career in their 20s. As females get older, radio and the public get more ageist and ageist. |
They are not on the level of Beyonce and Britney. But ok.
Also, Bey been in the game since the 90's. Many of her awards and certifications suggest this.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 40,803
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,816
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Quote:
Originally posted by AwardLegend
They are not on the level of Beyonce and Britney. But ok.
Also, Bey been in the game since the 90's. Many of her awards and certifications suggest this.
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I know that. Hence why I said in parenthesis: As a solo artist.
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Member Since: 2/6/2014
Posts: 41,074
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Quote:
Originally posted by AwardLegend
They are not on the level of Beyonce and Britney. But ok.
Also, Bey been in the game since the 90's. Many of her awards and certifications suggest this.
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You're straying from the point (as always).
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Member Since: 8/29/2009
Posts: 3,772
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She is not. BTW you cannot say that albums sales are dead when BB and the likes do everything to blow them up with streams:
01 - 205,000,000 - 120,000,000 - Madonna
02 - 185,000,000 - 55,000,000 - Céline
03 - 150,000,000 - 75,000,000 - Whitney
04 - 150,000,000 - 70,000,000 - Mariah
05 - 80,000,000 - 40,000,000 - Janet
The first 4 dominated in an incomparable manner. I always wonder why Millennials don't see that. Everything your faves achieve today was achieved two-fold by the legends, + they had cultural impact - everything without the internet and social media. Doesn't Madge have a song debut at #1 on the BB Airplay chart? LIke c_mon.. that's something none of the new galz achieved yet - despite radio deals. Mariah has a live song which went to #1. Céline sold 60 million albums in 24 months...(more than any solo recording artist ever did in that timeframe). Janet had 19 consecutive T10 singles in the US..
Céline and Madonna are 2 biggest female touring forces by attendance and revenue (by far). All of them, except Céline were the biggest female hitmakers in music history, despite hostile chart rules which didn't allow some of their evergreens to chart - until recently (not to speak of albums tracks which have not been allowed to chart for the first 60 years of the BB magazine's existence).
+ the fact that all of them are in the history and record books. They had to compete against each other and still smashed individually like there was no tomorrow.
+ they all showed unheard-of international impact.
Madonna sold 20 million albums in the UK (70 million in Europe in total), Céline is the biggest selling overall female recording force in France and also sold 65 million albums in Europe). Carey is the best selling non-asian recording artist in Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan with 35 million albums sold throughout the continent.
It's apples and oranges with the new generation of pop. They barely scratch 2 million SPS in the US and suddenly y'all call them legendary or great.
The statistics aren't there, nor is merit. The new generation of pop relies on twitter feuds and creeoy instagram videos which show their spouses fight with the in-laws. #creepy.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,415
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Yes, for a long long time now. 
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevyy
She is not. BTW you cannot say that albums sales are dead when BB and the likes do everything to blow them up with streams:
01 - 205,000,000 - 120,000,000 - Madonna
02 - 185,000,000 - 55,000,000 - Céline
03 - 150,000,000 - 75,000,000 - Whitney
04 - 150,000,000 - 70,000,000 - Mariah
05 - 80,000,000 - 40,000,000 - Janet
The first 4 dominated in an incomparable manner. I always wonder why Millennials don't see that. Everything your faves achieve today was achieved two-fold by the legends, + they had cultural impact - everything without the internet and social media. Doesn't Madge have a song debut at #1 on the BB Airplay chart? LIke c_mon.. that's something none of the new galz achieved yet - despite radio deals. Mariah has a live song which went to #1. Céline sold 60 million albums in 24 months...(more than any solo recording artist ever did in that timeframe). Janet had 19 consecutive T10 singles in the US..
Céline and Madonna are 2 biggest female touring forces by attendance and revenue (by far). All of them, except Céline were the biggest female hitmakers in music history, despite hostile chart rules which didn't allow some of their evergreens to chart - until recently (not to speak of albums tracks which have not been allowed to chart for the first 60 years of the BB magazine's existence).
+ the fact that all of them are in the history and record books. They had to compete against each other and still smashed individually like there was no tomorrow.
+ they all showed unheard-of international impact.
Madonna sold 20 million albums in the UK (70 million in Europe in total), Céline is the biggest selling overall female recording force in France and also sold 65 million albums in Europe). Carey is the best selling non-asian recording artist in Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan with 35 million albums sold throughout the continent.
It's apples and oranges with the new generation of pop. They barely scratch 2 million SPS in the US and suddenly y'all call them legendary or great.
The statistics aren't there, nor is merit. The new generation of pop relies on twitter feuds and creeoy instagram videos which show their spouses fight with the in-laws. #creepy.
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Are you saying that this generation will not have any legends because they have not reached the heights of the previous generation? It may be a drastically different scale, but it is still a scale.
And SPS add to sales but they do not boost it as high as sales are low.
"+ the fact that all of them are in the history and record books. They had to compete against each other and still smashed individually like there was no tomorrow. " As is Beyoncé.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 2,457
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I'll put it this way. She isn't there yet but she there is no possible way she won't be there, and possibly surpass, at least some of them in the future. Literally the only thing holding her back is time. She is only 34 and she is already getting these comparisons, so naturally most people would think it's premature. But when you look at it from a talent angle, she is already more talented or just as talented as really all of them. I could cut the vocal trinity a break (seeing as how they never really needed to dance) but still
Madonna: better singer and dancer
Celine: better dancer
Janet: better singer
Whitney: better dancer
Mariah: better dancer
In terms of breaking and setting new records, she has matched or surpassed a lot of them or even all of them in some cases again. Like everyone else said, you can't use record sales against her since she doesn't have the priveliege of being in a time where records actually sell.
She has the song that is recognized as the biggest and most iconic single of her decade, Crazy In Love (Just like Whitney is the 90s with IWALY)
She is the second most awarded female artist of all time (Only trailing Whitney again)
She has arguably the most iconic music video of her decade with equally as iconic choreography
As much as even I hate to say it, she is currently more respected than all of them, except for Whitney and maybe Celine
She will have the highest grossing tour of the decade, and possibly of all time for a solo artist if she plays her cards right
She already has not one, but two, iconic and heavily acclaimed albums, back to back
She has the biggest peak by a black female we have seen since Whitney in the early 90s, albeit she had the biggest female peak of all but it still is a bit ridiculous how much time has gone by
She has the biggest peak by a black artist in general since Usher with Confessions some 12 years ago
She is currently redefining the standards and limitations of black artists in the industry just like MJ, Whitney, Mariah, and Janet did before her
Again all of this and she is only 34 years old
She's got it all; the singles, the albums, the tours, the performances, the hype, and is a long run she will have the legacy.
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Member Since: 3/31/2012
Posts: 11,016
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Also this argument of "she was never THEEEE TOP GIRL" is so flawed.
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I mean when she was the TOP GIRL of the Decade 
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 568
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevyy
She is not. BTW you cannot say that albums sales are dead when BB and the likes do everything to blow them up with streams:
01 - 205,000,000 - 120,000,000 - Madonna
02 - 185,000,000 - 55,000,000 - Céline
03 - 150,000,000 - 75,000,000 - Whitney
04 - 150,000,000 - 70,000,000 - Mariah
05 - 80,000,000 - 40,000,000 - Janet
The first 4 dominated in an incomparable manner. I always wonder why Millennials don't see that. Everything your faves achieve today was achieved two-fold by the legends, + they had cultural impact - everything without the internet and social media. Doesn't Madge have a song debut at #1 on the BB Airplay chart? LIke c_mon.. that's something none of the new galz achieved yet - despite radio deals. Mariah has a live song which went to #1. Céline sold 60 million albums in 24 months...(more than any solo recording artist ever did in that timeframe). Janet had 19 consecutive T10 singles in the US..
Céline and Madonna are 2 biggest female touring forces by attendance and revenue (by far). All of them, except Céline were the biggest female hitmakers in music history, despite hostile chart rules which didn't allow some of their evergreens to chart - until recently (not to speak of albums tracks which have not been allowed to chart for the first 60 years of the BB magazine's existence).
+ the fact that all of them are in the history and record books. They had to compete against each other and still smashed individually like there was no tomorrow.
+ they all showed unheard-of international impact.
Madonna sold 20 million albums in the UK (70 million in Europe in total), Céline is the biggest selling overall female recording force in France and also sold 65 million albums in Europe). Carey is the best selling non-asian recording artist in Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan with 35 million albums sold throughout the continent.
It's apples and oranges with the new generation of pop. They barely scratch 2 million SPS in the US and suddenly y'all call them legendary or great.
The statistics aren't there, nor is merit. The new generation of pop relies on twitter feuds and creeoy instagram videos which show their spouses fight with the in-laws. #creepy.
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You just saved me a rant, thank you!
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,717
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Quote:
Originally posted by M A R C
You're straying from the point (as always).
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His point was clocked.
Which was my point.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 34,855
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Shes above Janet, Whitney, and Celine and possibly Mariah, too, but I wouldn't quite put her on Madonna's level.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,717
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevyy
She is not. BTW you cannot say that albums sales are dead when BB and the likes do everything to blow them up with streams:
01 - 205,000,000 - 120,000,000 - Madonna
02 - 185,000,000 - 55,000,000 - Céline
03 - 150,000,000 - 75,000,000 - Whitney
04 - 150,000,000 - 70,000,000 - Mariah
05 - 80,000,000 - 40,000,000 - Janet
The first 4 dominated in an incomparable manner. I always wonder why Millennials don't see that. Everything your faves achieve today was achieved two-fold by the legends, + they had cultural impact - everything without the internet and social media. Doesn't Madge have a song debut at #1 on the BB Airplay chart? LIke c_mon.. that's something none of the new galz achieved yet - despite radio deals. Mariah has a live song which went to #1. Céline sold 60 million albums in 24 months...(more than any solo recording artist ever did in that timeframe). Janet had 19 consecutive T10 singles in the US..
Céline and Madonna are 2 biggest female touring forces by attendance and revenue (by far). All of them, except Céline were the biggest female hitmakers in music history, despite hostile chart rules which didn't allow some of their evergreens to chart - until recently (not to speak of albums tracks which have not been allowed to chart for the first 60 years of the BB magazine's existence).
+ the fact that all of them are in the history and record books. They had to compete against each other and still smashed individually like there was no tomorrow.
+ they all showed unheard-of international impact.
Madonna sold 20 million albums in the UK (70 million in Europe in total), Céline is the biggest selling overall female recording force in France and also sold 65 million albums in Europe). Carey is the best selling non-asian recording artist in Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan with 35 million albums sold throughout the continent.
It's apples and oranges with the new generation of pop. They barely scratch 2 million SPS in the US and suddenly y'all call them legendary or great.
The statistics aren't there, nor is merit. The new generation of pop relies on twitter feuds and creeoy instagram videos which show their spouses fight with the in-laws. #creepy.
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You wish this was all applicable. 
http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=323424
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Member Since: 8/29/2009
Posts: 3,772
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I'd even put Beyoncé below Britney and Adele.
1. Madonna
2. Whitney
3. Mariah
4. Janet
5. Streisand
6. Céline
7. Aretha
8. Tina Turner
9. Joni Mitchell
10. Diana Ross
--
Britney
Adele
Donna
Cher
Beyoncé?
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Member Since: 8/29/2009
Posts: 3,772
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Quote:
Originally posted by AwardLegend
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We def. need some sort of adjustments bc singles sales peaked higher than albums sales ever peaked.
or we should finally call the formats what they really are. You know the "single" used to be a physical product which offered much more than 1 song. It was some sort of mini-album in its own right, hence it was so incredibly expensive back in the day.
a stream cannot be a a sale, it cannot replace the album as a format.
a digital song is that, a digital song, but it isn't a single in the sense of the artform that singles used to be.
in the end we cannot really compare older artists and newer artists. I mean Beyoncé will never reach 50 million albums sales in the traditional sense of the meaning of the word "sales". While the older ones will not reach those heights on the streaming and digital plaforms because they were invented years after the legends peaked.
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Member Since: 4/28/2012
Posts: 37,654
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No
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Member Since: 4/20/2008
Posts: 1,147
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No 
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