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News: #DNCLeaks - WikiLeaks Released 20K Hacked DNC Emails
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALIEN
If you really believe that Hillary Clinton had no involvement or not even knowledge of this I would just flat out say you're naive.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALIEN
You're naive.
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Honey, it doesn't matter if she "knew." These emails reveal a bias, not flat-out primary election rigging or stealing votes. They reveal something we already knew and that some of us already spent time justifying because we find it entirely understandable (to varying degrees) that they didn't want Bernie. But furthermore, it indicates zero involvement. And she didn't have to be involved. The DNC would have supported her from the outset regardless of whether she knew, whether she had a hand in anything, or quite frankly whether she or anyone else wanted it.
In the end, do you know what this says to me? That this was simply not the year for independent Bernie Sanders too run on the Democratic ticket, to change his party affiliation for ballot access and publicity (not that I fault him for that, it was smart), or to challenge the Democratic frontrunner. This wasn't the woman to pick an internal, Democratic Party fight with, because everyone in the system was already on her side along with (as we factually know) most voters.
Hillary Clinton wasn't going to be stopped and her nomination has been a long time coming; this is simply a lesson well learned. In 2024, we can truly talk about far left Presidential candidates becoming a possibility. But the mistake that was made in 2016 was expecting one to defeat the more-powerful-than-ever Clinton Machine.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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I completely refuse the notion that Hillary Clinton was somehow involved in this series of bias and misconduct, not until there's solid proof to show otherwise. Until then, I think it's very important to call these DNC officials out and bring DWS' circle to heel.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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And how is it "naive" to rely on solid facts (or lack thereof)? We simply shouldn't accuse people of things we have no verification that they even were connected to.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
I completely refuse the notion that Hillary Clinton was somehow involved in this series of bias and misconduct, not until there's solid proof to show otherwise. Until then, I think it's very important to call these DNC officials out and bring DWS' circle to heel.
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This is what should be discussed. If voters think that this shows corruption or misconduct, they shouldn't be flocking to Trump in the most disastrous protest vote in American history, they should be holding the relevant politicians (DWS, DNC members) accountable.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 1,809
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
Honey, it doesn't matter if she "knew." These emails reveal a bias, not flat-out primary election rigging or stealing votes. They reveal something we already knew and that some of us already spent time justifying because we find it entirely understandable (to varying degrees) that they didn't want Bernie. But furthermore, it indicates zero involvement. And she didn't have to be involved. The DNC would have supported her from the outset regardless of whether she knew, whether she had a hand in anything, or quite frankly whether she or anyone else wanted it.
In the end, do you know what this says to me? That this was simply not the year for independent Bernie Sanders too run on the Democratic ticket, to change his party affiliation for ballot access and publicity (not that I fault him for that, it was smart), or to challenge the Democratic frontrunner. This wasn't the woman to pick an internal, Democratic Party fight with, because everyone in the system was already on her side along with (as we factually know) most voters.
Hillary Clinton wasn't going to be stopped and her nomination has been a long time coming; this is simply a lesson well learned. In 2024, we can truly talk about far left Presidential candidates becoming a possibility. But the mistake that was made in 2016 was expecting one to defeat the more-powerful-than-ever Clinton Machine.
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Honestly, to me this just reads as semantics justifying what I, and a lot of people are complaining about, bias. Why are you trying to convince us that this is okay?! Because it's the way it's always been? Because she deserves it?  Do you guys not see why everyone sees this as a joke? You treat is so trivial and try make it look right.
How can this not be the year for us to have more than 2 candidates? Why can we only concentrate on Democrats, Republicans, why do we shout for equity and yet hold so little space for it?
Sorry, but I won't shut up. I see there is a problem, and I know I'm part of that problem. But I'm not gonna pretend it isn't there. 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 1,809
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
And how is it "naive" to rely on solid facts (or lack thereof)? We simply shouldn't accuse people of things we have no verification that they even were connected to.
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Because it is naive. Just like you 'refuse' to believe she was involved, I refuse to believe her being surrounded so closely to these people and to not hear a word? Do you really need VALIDATION? If she didn't do it then regardless she's an enabler and you are enabling it as well!
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 43,104
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALIEN
If you really believe that Hillary Clinton had no involvement or not even knowledge of this I would just flat out say you're naive.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALIEN
You're naive.
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And you're flat out missing PROOF.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 21,143
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I'm all for kicking DWS to the curb, tho
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Member Since: 6/17/2011
Posts: 6,613
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It's so funny to see people excuse Hillary for this mess lol. Brainwashed idiots
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 13,482
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why the hell did this thread get reported jfghdjhd
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
Honey, it doesn't matter if she "knew." These emails reveal a bias, not flat-out primary election rigging or stealing votes. They reveal something we already knew and that some of us already spent time justifying because we find it entirely understandable (to varying degrees) that they didn't want Bernie. But furthermore, it indicates zero involvement. And she didn't have to be involved. The DNC would have supported her from the outset regardless of whether she knew, whether she had a hand in anything, or quite frankly whether she or anyone else wanted it..
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Bias IS election rigging. When you have staff members trying to hurt him key states, that's election rigging. You don't know what was successful or what happened when it was really competitive since these emails are from later in the cycle. There's no smoking gun, but there doesn't need to be and people have right to not like what they are reading.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 15,668
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlphaOmega
Ya'll would seriously defend her against anything and then have the nerve to call Bernie supporters brainwashed.
Ughmazing.
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The ATRL liberals are really harsh and close minded as soon as anyone attacks Hillary or even mentions SUPPORT of another candidate 
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Bias IS election rigging. When you have staff members trying to hurt him key states, that's election rigging. You don't know what was successful or what happened when it was really competitive since these emails are from later in the cycle. There's no smoking gun, but there doesn't need to be and people have right to not like what they are reading.
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No, it's not election rigging.
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by Auris
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The ATRL liberals are really harsh and close minded as soon as anyone attacks Hillary or even mentions SUPPORT of another candidate |
I agree.
It's like the people on this site take this election as a stan thing. Like Hillary is some pop girl. Now she's an elected official who is running for president whom I think is a little corrupt.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Bálor
This entire thing is hilarious to me. So...because DNC staff had these discussions, which, much like Bernard Sanders' legislative record, was all talk and no action, somehow this is Hillary's fault?
The DNC does not control state elections. The DNC has no power over state elections. The DNC did not intervene in the elections held by the states, states which Sanders lost more of than he won. Was it tacky for the DNC staff to discuss some of the things they did? Sure. We all do when we're operating under the guise of privacy. However, none of those people had the power to directly influence anything involved with the millions of people who chose to vote Hillary Clinton over Bernard.
The holdouts and wishers can believe all they want that DNC "corruption" is what led to Bernard's loss, but that goes against the facts at hand and reality. The reality is more people chose Hillary Clinton. Period. Point. Blank. Now quit whining, get in formation and let's work to HOLD Hillary Clinton to the promises she's making during the election by electing officials up and down the ballot who will help enact progressive legislation.
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No one is saying they cheated him vote wise. But the fact that these officials were actively discussing how to undermine him shows directions came from the top. We don't know how he was affected and what fully came to fruition. They were leaking things to the press even after the primary was pretty much over.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 5,341
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Another nail in the Hilary coffin. This con artist of a presidential candidate will never reside in the White House again.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Here we go again with fear-mongering people out of voting third party.  Just let it BE.
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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its not even fear mongering. voting third party is the equivalent of not voting. a cop out of making a decision. theres a reason its mostly 18-21 year olds thinking like this, they're not adept when it comes to making decisions yet
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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People should vote their conscience, what they believe would be best for their country and what they perceive as the most suitable choice at the time of casting their ballots. I'm not advocating people vote for Stein, but people shouldn't be shamed and fear-mongered out of what they perceive as their ultimate choice just because it doesn't include a candidate nominated by one of the two major parties - because yes, believe it or not, there's always going to be a bad guy on the right, and milking the same strategy every election cycle will never break the duopoly. It's also worthy to note that Johnson is gaining far more traction than Stein, so hopefully the Stein votes cancel out with his, with a few leftovers left.
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
People should vote their conscience, what they believe would be best for their country and what they perceive as the most suitable choice at the time of casting their ballots. I'm not advocating people vote for Stein, but people shouldn't be shamed and fear-mongered out of what they perceive as their ultimate choice just because it doesn't include a candidate nominated by one of the two major parties - because yes, believe it or not, there's always going to be a bad guy on the right, and milking the same strategy every election cycle will never break the duopoly. It's also worthy to note that Johnson is gaining far more traction than Stein, so hopefully the Stein votes cancel out with his, with a few leftovers left.
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i agree. however i think until the green party starts taking the political system seriously and stops this attention seeking presidency bids they know they'll never win every 4 years they don't deserve a single vote. They only hurt this country at this point. not to mention being pro-homeopathy 
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