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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
But are there really? Because so far, almost every disgruntled former-candidate Bernie supporter that I have encountered has failed to bring up a single legitimate criticism of her and I'm kind of tired of it.
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I'lll gladly name some off for ya!  - Pro-war
- Pro-death penalty
- Pro-fracking
- Pro-corporations
- Pro-wall street
But we've clearly discussed these ad nauseam already and you seem to be blind to any fault or criticism of your lord and saviour sooooo.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
But are there really? Because so far, almost every disgruntled former-candidate Bernie supporter that I have encountered has failed to bring up a single legitimate criticism of her and I'm kind of tired of it.
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On here at least, it's usually just trolls trying to rile up the big Hillary supporters here. 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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You can't just stop fracking though unless you have something to replace it with....
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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Unless we all want to move to nuclear energy again, which I'm for
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
But are there really? Because so far, almost every disgruntled former-candidate Bernie supporter that I have encountered has failed to bring up a single legitimate criticism of her and I'm kind of tired of it.
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Some people might not be comfortable with her hawkish nature, fracking, Wall Street, etc.
There are legitimate concerns that I do not agree with. I personally do not have a problem with the ties to Wall Street until a single example of how it influenced her politics is brought up, but I understand being concerned about it. If the environment is the most important area of policy for you, I could understand being concerned about her past support of fracking (though I understand you can't really just cut out fracking). Etc.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
I'lll gladly name some off for ya! - Pro-war
- Pro-death penalty
- Pro-fracking
- Pro-corporations
- Pro-wall street
But we've clearly discussed these ad nauseam already and you seem to be blind to any fault or criticism of your lord and saviour sooooo. |
Bernie, Yugoslavia 1999. Bye.
Yes, in certain extreme cases. I don't see that as a major problem.
Good! One. You found one.
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Pro-corporations
Pro-wall street
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I don't debate with people who have zero legitimate desire to have a discussion and who aim only to criticize the person that beat their candidate and/or troll her supporters.
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Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
Bernie, Yugoslavia 1999. Bye.
Yes, in certain extreme cases. I don't see that as a major problem.
Good! One. You found one.
I don't debate with people who have zero legitimate desire to have a discussion and who aim only to criticize the person that beat their candidate and/or troll her supporters. |
I've never said Bernie was fault free like you did with your candidate? I'm just answering your post. You seeing them as a non-issue doesn't invalidate them for others.  Get over yourself.
Yes, I'm aware she got the nomination! Congrats! I'm still free to criticize her pathetic stances.
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Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 3,420
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 at these Bernie supporters STILL trying to make Hillary out to be the devil. Bernie moved on (who was actually running to be president, so when will they? 
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
I've never said Bernie was fault free like you did with your candidate? I'm just answering your post. You seeing them as a non-issue doesn't invalidate them for others. Get over yourself.
Yes, I'm aware she got the nomination! Congrats! I'm still free to criticize her pathetic stances. |
Yeah no, see, I'm saying that you focus on trolling and illegitimate issues and haven't bothered to actually discuss her actual faults much at all (see: your posts about her and race just a little bit ago!). Not to mention these faults, by definition, must be faults relative to other candidates (hence me mentioning Bernie). Politics doesn't exist in a vacuum and you don't get to just say "x thing is wrong with y candidate so I don't like her." You compare, you choose. I do not care if you said Bernie was perfect, or if you can't fully contextualize my post that you take to be me claiming Hillary is "perfect" (I actually didn't).
Oh, and by the way! Me not seeing something as an important issue means I damn well can reject the opposing notion that it is an important issue. That's kind of how things work in politics, we debate which issues are important and which solutions to take. Sorry if you don't like it! I'm not the one who needs to get over anything here!
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Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4seldemari
at these Bernie supporters STILL trying to make Hillary out to be the devil. Bernie moved on (who was actually running to be president, so when will they? |
What do you suggest we do now? Should we blindly rally around and stop criticizing a candidate we don't agree with?
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
What do you suggest we do now? Should we blindly rally around and stop criticizing a candidate we don't agree with? |
When you actually do agree with such candidate, YES.
Disagreeing on a few things is one thing. By all means, call her out on it. But don't protest vote and make up accusations because of these few things.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
What do you suggest we do now? Should we blindly rally around and stop criticizing a candidate we don't agree with? |
I would suggest you take a look at the only two candidates that can possibly become president at this point and then compare them, their stances, and their individual merits through discussion of legitimate policy proposals and statements!
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Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 3,420
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
What do you suggest we do now? Should we blindly rally around and stop criticizing a candidate we don't agree with? |
You've been posting stuff in here trying to imply that she's racist. That's not critiquing, that's mindless hate. 
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Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
Yeah no, see, I'm saying that you focus on trolling and illegitimate issues and haven't bothered to actually discuss her actual faults much at all (see: your posts about her and race just a little bit ago!). Not to mention these faults, by definition, must be faults relative to other candidates (hence me mentioning Bernie). Politics doesn't exist in a vacuum and you don't get to just say "x thing is wrong with y candidate so I don't like her." You compare, you choose. I do not care if you said Bernie was perfect, or if you can't fully contextualize my post that you take to be me claiming Hillary is "perfect" (I actually didn't).
Oh, and by the way! Me not seeing something as an important issue means I damn well can reject the opposing notion that it is an important issue. That's kind of how things work in politics, we debate which issues are important and which solutions to take. Sorry if you don't like it! I'm not the one who needs to get over anything here!
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You don't see them as important for some reason, and that's fine! But others do, and they're reasonable criticisms (unlike Bengazi, x right-wing attack). I can't be the only one who sees this foolery.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 25,228
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
What do you suggest we do now? Should we blindly rally around and stop criticizing a candidate we don't agree with? |
Well, there's only two real choices in this election. You can only pick one. Might as well go with the one you agree with the most.
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Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4seldemari
You've been posting stuff in here trying to imply that she's racist. That's not critiquing, that's mindless hate. |
Focus on the list of reasonable faults I posted then.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
You don't see them as important for some reason, and that's fine! But others do, and they're reasonable criticisms (unlike Bengazi, x right-wing attack). I can't be the only one who sees this foolery.
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If you think the death penalty is a significant issue in this election, then just explain why. Tell me why. I simply disagree that it could be important when the proposals and rhetoric so far deal with issues so far above that, above the ethical and financial intricacies of that particular debate. I don't accept the notion that it has much place in discussion of this election when, out of the only two candidates with any shot, there is so much disparity between them on major issues like immigration, gun rights, foreign policy, treatment of undocumented citizens, etc.
Fracking I take seriously and I consider an important issue, this isn't about that.
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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I'm sorry, but I have no respect for people who hate the thought of Hillary as president.
Forget the "lesser of two evils". Her plans are smart and will do good for millions of people who have no control over their future thanks to a broken government. I have no respect for people who play coy with the man who played coy with white supremacy. 
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Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
If you think the death penalty is a significant issue in this election, then just explain why. Tell me why. I simply disagree that it could be important when the proposals and rhetoric so far deal with issues so far above that, above the ethical and financial intricacies of that particular debate. I don't accept the notion that it has much place in discussion of this election when, out of the only two candidates with any shot, there is so much disparity between them on major issues like immigration, gun rights, foreign policy, treatment of undocumented citizens, etc.
Fracking I take seriously and I consider an important issue, this isn't about that.
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Human life is on the line, it's a significant issue whether or not it's an election year.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
Human life is on the line, it's a significant issue whether or not it's an election year. |
Why? This isn't just a given, and the ethics of enforcing the death penalty aren't black and white. I want to hear why.
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