[hooky]

I do think we should have universal healthcare and at least 2 years of free college at a community college at the minimum.

[heckinglovato]

Originally posted by Bloo

My issue with this kind of thinking, and the overall message of Bernie's campaign, government—with enough power—is ripe for corruption. Bernie has consistently drilled the idea that our current system is corrupt... So why would making it bigger help anything? People in general, I included, already have a distrust of the government. I don't really feel that comfortable with expanding their power to the level that socialist (let alone communism) promotes.

Hence the "RIGHT" kind of government. It all goes back to the officials you elect and in what direction they're willing to expand government power towards.

[Damien M]

Originally posted by hooky

What would happen if we stopped taxing lower income brackets and taxed the high income brackets more, while leaving the middle class alone?

Rich people can't pay for everything, i don't think its fair to 'punish' higher earners.
They can pay a slightly higher % than everyone else, but otherwise...

[heckinglovato]

Originally posted by Damien M

This is so wrong on so many levels lol (and condescending, esp the last sentence )
No one receives more opportunities (if any) bc they're a minority.
Most black people vote Democrat in spite of their economic + social policies. We're mostly moderates.
We do not have much in common with the far left and we certainly don't want to be rewarded w 'free things' for voting 'the right way' like you're implying

I'm saying people SHOULD be receiving more opportunities than they do now because they're a minority. Not that they already receive more opportunities. It was a fluidly pro-affirmative action statement.

[Bey Admired]

Originally posted by Marvin

Well the implication that Bernie wants to embrace socialism is incorrect, so that wasn't my point. I'm just saying that people are trying to completely dismiss socialism even though we already have socialist aspects in our society that plenty of people enjoy (like national parks). It doesn't make sense.



Agreed. No one running wants to do that though, and it'd never happen in America.

Although I guess it depends on what you'd consider far-left. We would and could never become a communist nation.

You're right in saying that America could never truly become a communist nation, but it could become a country governed by communist ideals, which would be bad for the economy as I said earlier.

[Bloo]

Originally posted by heckinglovato

I didn't mean to put it in a "you need to elect us or else!!!!" context, but I publicly condemn Caitlyn Jenner, for example, for her blatant support of Ted Cruz. I'm not saying she NEEDS to support Hillary or Bernie, but rather not support an individual who's publicly against her rights and freedoms. At the end of the day, I think she should have the right to support whoever she wants, but I'm saying it only makes sense to give back to whomever has given you. But yes, she needs to be supporting any individual she wants, she's old enough to know how bad he'd be for her and her community.

When you use the phrase "minorities have an obligation," it very much paints your message in the light that you're now condemning. Caitlyn Jenner is an exception. She has lived most of her life as a privileged, rich, white man. So, her political stances should not be taken seriously as of right now because she just now started living life as a trans-woman.

Originally posted by Marvin

Well the implication that Bernie wants to embrace socialism is incorrect, so that wasn't my point. I'm just saying that people are trying to completely dismiss socialism even though we already have socialist aspects in our society that plenty of people enjoy (like national parks). It doesn't make sense.

It's not incorrect. He's a socialist. Before you even start with that "No, he's a DEMOCRATIC Socialist" speech, Democratic Socialism and Socialism are no different. Democratic Socialism began being a thing after Socialism began to be associated with the Marxist, skewed version of it found in the USSR that Americans began to be fearful of. So, the term was coined to make it seem nicer to Americans. Socialism, by definition, is democratic by nature. Democratic Socialism is a redundant term.

Anyway, he keeps bringing up socialist countries and how we should be more like that. He is embracing socialism.

[BoyOnBoy Wonder]

Originally posted by Damien M

Rich people can't pay for everything, i don't think its fair to 'punish' higher earners.
They can pay a slightly higher % than everyone else, but otherwise...

Exactly. It goes against the American ideal in the first place - what's there to attain to?

[Bloo]

Originally posted by heckinglovato

Hence the "RIGHT" kind of government. It all goes back to the officials you elect and in what direction they're willing to expand government power towards.

Donald Trump, a man who early on in his campaign said that he would be dating his daughter if he wasn't her father, is a leading candidate.... You trust the American people entirely with handing that much power to the right person? I sure as hell do not.

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Bey Admired

You're right in saying that America could never truly become a communist nation, but it could become a country governed by communist ideals, which would be bad for the economy as I said earlier.

Bernie doesn't have communist ideals if that's what you're trying to say

[BoyOnBoy Wonder]

Originally posted by Marvin

Bernie doesn't have communist ideals if that's what you're trying to say

Girl - what are you talking about? That's his literal platform. It's even in your damn avi.

[Bey Admired]

Originally posted by hooky

What would happen if we stopped taxing lower income brackets and taxed the high income brackets more, while leaving the middle class alone?

But what would people who fall into the lower income brackets feel? They wouldn't have a stake in their Country. It would just lead to further feeling of exclusion and complacency. That wouldn't be good for anyone.

The rich should be taxed the most, the middle class should be taxed less. The lower class should be taxed the least. They should still be taxed though.

[Bloo]

Originally posted by Marvin

Bernie doesn't have communist ideals if that's what you're trying to say

This sounds like it's written about Bernie's campaign.

Originally posted by The New Communism: Resurrecting the Utopian Delusion". World Affairs. A specter is haunting the academy—the specter of “new communism.” A worldview recently the source of immense suffering and misery, and responsible for more deaths than fascism and Nazism, is mounting a comeback; a new form of left-wing totalitarianism that enjoys intellectual celebrity but aspires to political power.

The defining common ground is the contention that 'the crises of contemporary liberal capitalist societies—ecological degradation, financial turmoil, the loss of trust in the political class, exploding inequality—are systemic; interlinked, not amenable to legislative reform, and requiring “revolutionary” solutions.'

Bernie is not a communist. But he's a lot closer to one than most American politics.

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Bloo

Anyway, he keeps bringing up socialist countries and how we should be more like that. He is embracing socialism.

He says we should be more like them in the way they care about their citizens, and he mainly talks about free healthcare when referencing them. Embracing one part doesn't mean he's embracing the whole thing.

[heckinglovato]

Originally posted by Bloo

Donald Trump, a man who early on in his campaign said that he would be dating his daughter if he wasn't her father, is a leading candidate.... You trust the American people entirely with handing that much power to the right person? I sure as hell do not.

Trump isn't under my list of what I perceive as right for minorities. I was coming from the ideal standpoint of YOU and I getting the right people elected to expand the government in the right direction. Not at all implying that what people elect is always right, in fact most of the time it isn't.

[Bey Admired]

Originally posted by Marvin

Bernie doesn't have communist ideals if that's what you're trying to say

I disagree. I think some of his policies do cross the line into what some would define as communism. A debate about this could go on for days though. I'm not even going to start a debate concerning that.

[Bloo]

Originally posted by heckinglovato

Trump isn't under my list of what I perceive as right for minorities. I was coming from the ideal standpoint of YOU and I getting the right people elected to expand the government in the right direction. Not at all implying that what people elect is always right, in fact most of the time it isn't.

I was referring to the idea of expanding the government's power and the concerns doing such, and then you talked about making sure we elect the right people... So I countered by saying the people could very easily get it wrong... Don't see how that doesn't fit our conversation.

[Marvin]

Originally posted by BoyOnBoy Wonder

Girl - what are you talking about? That's his literal platform. It's even in your damn avi.

That's like saying "Yes We Can" is a communist platform

Just stop.

[BoyOnBoy Wonder]

Originally posted by Marvin

That's like saying "Yes We Can" is a communist platform

Just stop.

President Obama's campaign never felt socialist on this level.

After all, unlike Bernie Sanders, President Obama is a member of the Democratic Party.

[Bey Admired]

Originally posted by Marvin

That's like saying "Yes We Can" is a communist platform

Just stop.

They're nothing alike

[Mike91]

Originally posted by Bey Admired

An old Margaret Thatcher quote I'm fond of:

"So, you would rather the poor be poorer provided the rich were less rich".

That basically sums up socialists and communists to me. I don't agree with Thatcherism or Raeginism entirely, but they were both right when they said that socialism and communism is a disease.

I still don't think most people understand his brand of socialism. It's not about doing away with capitalism and only having socialism. It's about adopting more socialist policies such as healthcare, free education, etc and having a more level playing field for everyone.

You'd have to be a special kind of dumb to not realize the economy cannot continue to have all of it's wealth go to the top. The reason why the economy hasn't grown as much as it should have is because in order to rebuild the economy, people need to spend money and most people don't have it to spend. You can suggest tax cuts, etc but that's still taking money away from the economy at the end of the day and taxes ares already lower than they should be.

We need money flowing into the economy and the way to start is to start making the rich pay more. Yes, they absolutely should pay more. A lot of them pay zero taxes. If nothing happens and the wealth gap continues to be ignored, you'll be looking at another depression eventually and you will see people begin to rise up.