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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
The reason the statement bothered me me is because I care about her 0.4% win. I think it was significant enough that she won at all and I think that a victory in the state helped her. I didn't consider it a virtual tie, I worked hard to help her get that 0.4% win and campaigned for her here, and I caucused for her to contribute, even if in the smallest way, to that 0.4% win. And I think enough people reading about it also care about that win and recognize it as such.
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No, this will not turn into an overly-dramatized discussion about her win. Yes, she did win and it was good for her campaign, I applaud her for it. It's still biased to dismiss the virtual tie and how ridiculously close the results were, especially compared to the enormous positive outcome that it generated for the loser's campaign.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
I think he was calling me immature for saying his loss wasn't a tie  . It's fine politics gets to all of us |
Nothing got to me The rhetoric of dismissing the virtual tie is immature, y'all are fine
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 28,137
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I hate the DNC 
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
No, this will not turn into an overly-dramatized discussion about her win. Yes, she did win and it was good for her campaign, I applaud her for it. It's still biased to dismiss the virtual tie and how ridiculously close the results were, especially compared to the enormous positive outcome that it generated for the loser's campaign.
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But we're both being biased here. We've both acknowledged that it was good for both, but your assertion that it was a virtual tie and mine that a win is still a win are both biased stances that seek to portray our candidate in a more positive light.
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Member Since: 10/2/2011
Posts: 4,285
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PPP poll of likely voters has Clinton leading Bernie by 21 points, Quinnipiac's of registered has her leading by just 2.
Remind me not to rely as much on polls for the rest of this thread. 
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Member Since: 7/13/2010
Posts: 11,566
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
Nothing got to me The rhetoric of dismissing the virtual tie is immature, y'all are fine |
Ok, but in elections there are winners and losers. you are quick to point out the rhetoric of others when not owning your own rhetoric.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
I swear someone attempts this every single day on here 
We were referring to the turnout percentage, not the delegates. The reason we care about IA and NH is because of their massive public influence on presidential campaigns in the media, not because of the few dozen delegates out of a couple thousand national delegates. |
There aren't virtual ties in elections. Ask Al Gore if he thinks that after 2000. 
Will IA impact the overall nomination process much? No, because the difference wasn't substantial enough. But Hillary did win Iowa. That's a fact. Regardless of how close it was.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chemical X.
I hate the DNC |
Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
But we're both being biased here. We've both acknowledged that it was good for both, but your assertion that it was a virtual tie and mine that a win is still a win are both biased stances that seek to portray our candidate in a more positive light.
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAKSIM
Ok, but in elections there are winners and losers. you are quick to point out the rhetoric of others when not owning your own rhetoric.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
There aren't virtual ties in elections. Ask Al Gore if he thinks that after 2000.
Will IA impact the overall nomination process much? No, because the difference wasn't substantial enough. But Hillary did win Iowa. That's a fact. Regardless of how close it was. |
IA and NH are regarded as key states because of the national impact they propose after they're held, it's a no-brainer that the delegate count will benefit Hillary at the convention, but the reason we're even talking about NH and IA is because they're key-states, yes Clinton won IA, but the virtual tie mattered a whole lot, especially as evidenced by the huge hype Sanders' campaign gained after the ridiculously small loss.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 43,104
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by ClarksonSlays
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Oh boy, please no, not this again, don't go there, we've been having a nice night. 
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Member Since: 11/15/2009
Posts: 16,903
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Quote:
Originally posted by ClarksonSlays
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Because Bernie hasn't had a chance to be destroyed by the Republicans yet. Basically, every aspect of Hillary's life has been under a microscope for 25 years, so any negatives about her are "baked into the cake", so to say. Bernie hasn't been properly vetted yet, and hasn't faced any negative campaign ads since the Democrats have chosen to run a clean race. Republicans are going to have a field day if it's Bernie in the general election. GE polls in February mean nothing.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 43,104
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
Oh boy, please no, not this again, don't go there, we've been having a nice night. |
I'm really not trying to piss anyone off but I was genuinely curious 
Quote:
Originally posted by @michael
Because Bernie hasn't had a chance to be destroyed by the Republicans yet. Basically, every aspect of Hillary's life has been under a microscope for 25 years, so any negatives about her are "baked into the cake", so to say. Bernie hasn't been properly vetted yet, and hasn't faced any negative campaign ads since the Democrats have chosen to run a clean race. Republicans are going to have a field day if it's Bernie in the general election. GE polls in February mean nothing.
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Alright 
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by ClarksonSlays
I'm really not trying to piss anyone off but I was genuinely curious |
No it's just that this particular issue has caused a lot of... interesting highlights in this thread in the past.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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All these Republicans who think Rubio is going to be pulling moderates to their will be in a world of shock come November.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
All these Republicans who think Rubio is going to be pulling moderates to their will be in a world of shock come November.
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Yep. I never understood why people thought that. He's like super conservative except on immigration
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Banned
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 4,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
I'll try my best to be as unbiased as possible!
First of all it was the best debate I've seen on either side since 2008, maybe even better!
Both candidates were fantastic. Things started off right away with tough questions. Clinton was asked about her progressiveness and she answered nicely saying under Sanders' definition Obama, Biden, and a few others weren't progressives because of his definition (taking money from Wall Street, voting for the Iraq war, etc). He then said she's part of the establishment that's why so many senators and legislators endorsed her. So she said it was weird to call a woman running to become the first female president ever as establishment. then Sanders swung back with the 1-2 punch of her taking money from Wall Street and saying she's not going to be as tough cracking down on them. She stumbled a bit but said they spend so much money on her trying to get people to vote against her and for Bernie because they're scared of her because they know of her record
Next was foreign policy and that was where Clinton took control. She has a wide array of knowledge on everything and answered every question elegantly. Sanders looked puzzled throughout the hour and quietly agreed with her because he just isn't comfortable yet speaking about FP. He did say judgement is just as important as experience when saying he didn't vote for the war and she did. Good answer. She replied by saying she used her judgement in advising the president in letting her say what she needed to about capturing and killing Bin Laden. And more stuff Bernie never felt good about regarding FP (like saying North Korea was more dangerous than Russia, etc)
Finally the last part came down to emails, attacking, who could lead this country to where it needs to be, etc. Sanders said his supporters are the reason why he's the stronger candidate because he is not bought, hasn't raised a single sent on Wall Street and super pacs, has always been against topics the Secretary recently changed her mind on, and can energize the base to get it and vote like never before. Clinton finally had a good retort to the email question, said she was more rounded as a president, and even said she would consider Sanders first as VP if she was the nom.
Overall it was a stellar debate that never veered off topic, no nasty remarks (both declined vehemently to attack the other personally), Rachel and other guy were excellent hosts who never had to talk too much. Just wow
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
Amazing.
So, Hillary was more aggressive in this debate in the beginning and it was really intense, but substantive. I thought that was good because as a Hillary fan, I get annoyed when she holds back in fear of being called a b****. This time she didn't hold back and it made the debate a lot more interesting. The questions were great and focused on some of the perceived weaknesses of each candidate and they gave good responses to them. The weakest area of the night was Bernie on foreign policy.
The best moment though, was when Hillary was asked, "Seeing as how you don't see Senator Sanders as fit for president--" "--I never said that!" "--would you see him fit as a vice president should you get the nomination?" They both laughed and Hillary responded with that Bernie would be the first person she would go to on collaboration to improve the country should she be blessed to get the nomination and Bernie echoed the same sentiment. They were entirely respectful of each other. Best debate ever in this election season.
Martin should have dropped out earlier, tbh. His absence made a huge difference.
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thank you guys 
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Member Since: 1/4/2012
Posts: 7,329
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
All these Republicans who think Rubio is going to be pulling moderates to their will be in a world of shock come November.
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I'm interested, why you think that?
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by D_Man3379
I'm interested, why you think that?
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I watched the View the other day, and Joy Behar asked the conservative panelists to name some moderate policies he has, and none of the three could name one. Truth is, a lot of GOP supporting him don't know any of his stances outside of immigration and believe he is a moderate b/c of the media says so. He is Ted Cruz in sheep's clothing. Think his favor-ability with women will stay as high when people discover he's against abortion even in cases of rape and incest? Wants to overturn gay marriage. Wants to repeat Bush foreign policy? His polls numbers are high, b/c he hasn't really been attacked yet outside of the GOP primary.
Kasich, Christie, and Trump (though he has other problems) are the only ones who will be pulling moderates and conservative Dems. Hell even Jeb has a better chance, at least he has real experience. Don't let polls this far out fool you.
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Member Since: 7/13/2010
Posts: 11,566
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
I watched the View the other day, and Joy Behar asked the conservative panelists to name some moderate policies he has, and none of the three could name one. Truth is, a lot of GOP supporting him don't know any of his stances outside of immigration and believe he is a moderate b/c of the media says so. He is Ted Cruz in sheep's clothing. Think his favor-ability with women will stay as high when people discover he's against abortion even in cases of rape and incest? Wants to overturn gay marriage. Wants to repeat Bush foreign policy? His polls numbers are high, b/c he hasn't really been attacked yet outside of the GOP primary.
Kasich, Christie, and Trump (though he has other problems) are the only ones who will be pulling moderates and conservative Dems. Hell even Jeb has a better chance, at least he has real experience. Don't let polls this far out fool you.
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Very true. Kasich could definitely pull me to the republican side if Bernie was the nominee. Not a fan of the other two.
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Member Since: 8/29/2011
Posts: 18,282
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
Don't worry too much about it, whether Clinton wins or loses NH, the establishment media as well as ATRL will call it a win for her, or will at least try to make it sound like one.
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And if/when Hillary destroys him in S.C., Neveda, and on and on, I am sure some people on here and online will be like "VIRTUALLY TIED" "This is BASICALLY winning!"
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