| |
-->
Discussion: Do you consider "transracial" a real term?
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 12,079
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
I agree.
The same way you're born with pale white skin or dark skin is the EXACT same way you're either born with a penis or a vagina. You can't shun one in favor of the other.
-
In any case, race is more flexible than gender (imo of course) bc it's not white and black. There are grey areas.
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
I really don't think they are that different, and the people in this thread are jumping through hoops in order to validate transgender-ism.
|
That 1, 2 punch! 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,721
|
No, it's bull ****ing ****.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,139
|
The fact that people are even debating this. Not EVERYTHING is a social justice issue. 
Race is a social construct used to categorize groups of people and mainly to marginalize Non-White minority groups. As if cultural appropriation isn't hurting people of color enough, this idea of "trans-racialism" will only allow White people to claim a minority status when it's convenient for them to take advantage of what they perceive to be beneficial to them.
IT'S ****ING STUPID.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/22/2009
Posts: 11,766
|
Nnnnnn my transthread about this a year ago got transclosed pretty quickly:
http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=621531
Like how would you actually racially "transition", I wonder? Skin bleaching? Full-body tattoo? Coal? Car paint injections?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/25/2012
Posts: 10,673
|
Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
The fact that people are even debating this. Not EVERYTHING is a social justice issue.
Race is a social construct used to categorize groups of people and mainly to marginalize Non-White minority groups. As if cultural appropriation isn't hurting people of color enough, this idea of "trans-racialism" will only allow White people to claim a minority status when it's convenient for them to take advantage of what they perceive to be beneficial to them.
IT'S ****ING STUPID. |
!!!!
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
There's nothing neurological about race. You don't mentally feel like you have physical characteristics—you're born with those characteristics. Those physical characteristics mean absolutely nothing. In terms of culture that's associated with race, you aren't born feeling like a certain culture—you grow up in a society surrounded by that culture.
You can't be a White woman from Texas and claim that your brain says you're a Tibetan monk from the Himalayas. It literally does not make sense.
|
There has been no definitive proof that transgenderism is scientifically "mental". It's based on nothing but self-reports.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 1,760
|
Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
The fact that people are even debating this. Not EVERYTHING is a social justice issue.
Race is a social construct used to categorize groups of people and mainly to marginalize Non-White minority groups. As if cultural appropriation isn't hurting people of color enough, this idea of "trans-racialism" will only allow White people to claim a minority status when it's convenient for them to take advantage of what they perceive to be beneficial to them.
IT'S ****ING STUPID. |
But Trans women are doing the same to women by lobbying to occupy women spaces! Women can no longer use the bathroom or locker rooms without fear of being accosted by a man mascarading as a female.
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
There has been no definitive proof that transgenderism is scientifically "mental". It's based on nothing but self-reports.
|
This is literal ********.
@ the people in this thread actually trying to equate the concepts of gender and race.
@ people missing the point entirely.
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
Quote:
Originally posted by blasianlove
But Trans women are doing the same to women by lobbying to occupy women spaces! Women can no longer use the bathroom or locker rooms without fear of being accosted by a man mascarading as a female.
|
Absolutely ****ing ridiculous absurdist panic.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
This is literal ********.
@ the people in this thread actually trying to equate the concepts of gender and race.
@ people missing the point entirely.
|
Feel free to link the studies that show definitive proof for a transgender gene or neurological imbalance, and I'll happily agree with you.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6,765
|
Quote:
Originally posted by TheGreatestThing
Hm. I don't know the answer to this. My first thoughts are that sex and gender are comparable to ethnicity and race; gender and race are both social constructs that originate from sex and ethnicity, respectively. And, similarly, the expectations or perceptions of race and gender vary by culture and time period, which makes them difficult to define in concrete terms. I see how gender could be argued to be more internal (though I think gender and gender expression share an inherent link), and race is more of the result of external influences and judgments. However, I don't see how one could make an argument for transgender and against "transracial".
For example, yes, a white person who identified as "transracial" would not have the cultural upbringing of a ethnic minority and likely would not have a full understanding of the knowledge and struggles of that minority in that context. But, by that logic, I could see someone saying that a biological male could not identify with the female gender since the biological male never experienced life as a female and isn't fully aware of the societal expectations, double standards and teachings that are instilled in biological females from birth.
Obviously, that isn't right, so where does the difference lie? Gender is "instilled" (for lack of a better word) by society in children from birth based on the child's sex. Race is "instilled" by society in children from birth based on the child's ethnicity. What makes identifying as "transgender" legitimate and identifying as "transracial" illegitimate?
|
This explains what I was thinking perfectly. Is gender a social construct? Because it seems like some of you are saying it isn't. If gender is a social construct, wouldn't you argue that being transgender is a disorder caused by society. If societys definition of a 'woman' is linked to being a female, a male who falls under that definition of a woman then feels the need to look female (breasts, fuller lips, bone structure, genitals, etc.) and vice versa.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 12,514
|
If you think of yourself as a different race and are not hurting anyone, then I don't see the problem. 
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Feel free to link the studies that show definitive proof for a transgender gene or neurological imbalance, and I'll happily agree with you.
|
That's not the only way to classify something as mental, psychological, or emotional in nature, and I'd prefer to have leading medical and psychological authorities worldwide agree with me than an ATRLer with a clear agenda. I'm not even going to waste my time looking.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 10,912
|
no. its basically just an excuse for white people to say the n word
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
That's not the only way to classify something as mental, psychological, or emotional in nature, and I'd prefer to have leading medical and psychological authorities worldwide agree with me than an ATRLer with a clear agenda. I'm not even going to waste my time looking.
|
You won't look because you know you won't find anything. If it was a widely accepted thing, it would take nothing but a quick google search.
Scientists can even find scientific basis for other "emotional/psychological" disorders such as depression or schizophrenia. I doubt you'd find any of that for transgender ism. Most would label it at most as a gender dysphoria.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/21/2012
Posts: 18,849
|
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
You won't look because you know you won't find anything. If it was a widely accepted thing, it would take nothing but a quick google search.
Scientists can even find scientific basis for other "emotional/psychological" disorders such as depression or schizophrenia. I doubt you'd find any of that for transgender ism. Most would label it at most as a gender dysphoria.
|
You mean besides the information you can find after a three second Google search that will show that legitimate medical professionals have found differences in brain structure and chemistry in individuals with gender dysphoria?
Oh, yeah, by the way, gender dysphoria is something that transgender people do in fact have and it's not a curable thing or something that spontaneously goes away, so I don't get the "at most" part at all.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 10,514
|
@Retro @Doc May I have your thoughts on this?
Quote:
Originally posted by TheGreatestThing
Hm. I don't know the answer to this. My first thoughts are that sex and gender are comparable to ethnicity and race; gender and race are both social constructs that originate from sex and ethnicity, respectively. And, similarly, the expectations or perceptions of race and gender vary by culture and time period, which makes them difficult to define in concrete terms. I see how gender could be argued to be more internal (though I think gender and gender expression share an inherent link), and race is more of the result of external influences and judgments. However, I don't see how one could make an argument for transgender and against "transracial".
For example, yes, a white person who identified as "transracial" would not have the cultural upbringing of a ethnic minority and likely would not have a full understanding of the knowledge and struggles of that minority in that context. But, by that logic, I could see someone saying that a biological male could not identify with the female gender since the biological male never experienced life as a female and isn't fully aware of the societal expectations, double standards and teachings that are instilled in biological females from birth.
Obviously, that isn't right, so where does the difference lie? Gender is "instilled" (for lack of a better word) by society in children from birth based on the child's sex. Race is "instilled" by society in children from birth based on the child's ethnicity. What makes identifying as "transgender" legitimate and identifying as "transracial" illegitimate?
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
You mean besides the information you can find after a three second Google search that will show that legitimate medical professionals have found differences in brain structure and chemistry in individuals with gender dysphoria?
Oh, yeah, by the way, gender dysphoria is something that transgender people do in fact have and it's not a curable thing or something that spontaneously goes away, so I don't get the "at most" part at all.
|
Gender dysphoria has very flimsy biologoical evidence with no definite peer-reviewed studies.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/13/2012
Posts: 29,559
|
Transgender = being born into a different biological body (sex) than the gender you feel you are.
Some combination of X/Y chromosomes determines your biological sex. There's no contesting that.
Race, on the other hand, is a social construct based on perceived groupings of physical characteristics. There is no "black" gene, no particular grouping of chromosomes that makes someone Asian. You can't be born into a body of the "wrong" race, because there is no such thing biologically.
|
|
|
|
|
|
