| |
-->
Discussion: Do you consider "transracial" a real term?
Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
'm 8 minutes in.
|
Wait for the African-Australian woman to go AWF on skin bleaching. Queen.
|
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
|
Some of you cannot be this damn dumb. You're on the internet. Open another tab and use your resources.
Gender dysphoria is a mental condition vetted by doctor's, scientists and psychologists where one's inside (brain/feelings) does not match their outside (sex organs/body form). It's not purely societal, as there are biological causes in many cases. It can be treated by changing the way one identifies to match the way they feel. These things do not apply to race.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/17/2012
Posts: 1,297
|
Quote:
Originally posted by KareBear
What if you're white adopted into a black family and only associate with black people. Can you claim black then?
If transexualism is brain dysphoria regarding roles or characteristics attributed to sex, wouldn't that classify being transexual as a mental disorder that should be treated, rather than catered to by getting surgery?
|
You have to have the ethnicity as well as the culture. so no you couldnt claim being black.
Trassexualism is treated by therapies and medication (rightly or wrongly), surgery is a last resort when medical professionals deem it the only thing to help the person. But even so, such surgeries are for the most part cosmetic (aside from the sterilization that results from it), do you consider people who get more common cosmetic procedures in need of conversion therapy?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
|
Quote:
Originally posted by KareBear
What if you're white adopted into a black family and only associate with black people. Can you claim black then?
|
You can't. You can claim a culture, but you can't claim a race. 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 70,898
|
I'm lowkey hollering at these responses 
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
This actually came up in my Sociology class a few years ago with the movie Soul Man; the primary issue with "identifying" as a certain race other than yours, even if you try to "look" the part and people treat you as they would if you were that race, is that you can escape at any time. In that movie, the guy lived as a black man in order to keep a particular scholarship, and experience racism - but he had the freedom to "go back" (in his case, stop taking pills that altered his skin tone) to being white at any point, which no non-white person actually has. lesson of the story is that someone who isn't white can't magically escape racism; someone who is white but "identifies" as something else (and I use quotes to show that I don't agree that you can do such a thing) can cop out and go back to their white life. That's why "transracial" cannot be a legitimate thing, as I understand things.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 14,949
|
Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
well...you can't change your sex (at least not presently). You also can't really "change" your gender as your gender is something that you always are, you just have to come to terms with it.
|
Reading your posts, I think you have a wrong understanding of what gender is. Not trying to argue or anything. Gender has to do with how women and men act, and how society perceives both of them. Their emotions, strengths and liking. You aren't born with a gender, you are assigned a gender.
Gender is not something you will always be, you can make the decision to be the other gender. As opposed to sex which you cant really change.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 70,898
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Aciid
Reading your posts, I think you have a wrong understanding of what gender is. Not trying to argue or anything. Gender has to do with how women and men act, and how society perceives both of them. Their emotions, strengths and liking. You aren't born with a gender, you are assigned a gender.
Gender is not something you will always be, you can make the decision to be the other gender. As opposed to sex which you cant really change.
|
well I still don't agree with that. You're right you are assigned a gender but that's why it's not changeable, it's apart of you. That's what I was going for
You can make the decision on your gender but you may feel that in one point in time that your gender you identified with doesn't fit so you identified as something else. Overall your first option was never your "real" gender but something you thought you were (your actual gender never changed). Maybe I'm just messing with syntax here but that's what I assumed?
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
I think the better way to think of gender is this: you cannot willingly, spontaneously decide to be a gender. What you can decide is how to express yourself, how to label yourself if you wish to have any label, and how to convey that to other people. Your gender at any single point is a feeling or state-of-being that isn't directly under your control, but that is fluid and can change based on a number of factors. Essentially, you can decide what gender - if any - society places on you at that time and going forward by how you express yourself and label yourself and convey your gender identity.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
|
lmao @ the bit in the video where they discuss melanotan. I've done that before. I guess I'm a bit "transracial" 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Rihinvention
lmao @ the bit in the video where they discuss melanotan. I've done that before. I guess I'm a bit "transracial" |
wyd 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
wyd |
LOL
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6,765
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
I think the better way to think of gender is this: you cannot willingly, spontaneously decide to be a gender. What you can decide is how to express yourself, how to label yourself if you wish to have any label, and how to convey that to other people. Your gender at any single point is a feeling or state-of-being that isn't directly under your control, but that is fluid and can change based on a number of factors. Essentially, you can decide what gender - if any - society places on you at that time and going forward by how you express yourself and label yourself and convey your gender identity.
|
Ok question for you(to everyone). Would you agree with NOT assigning a child gender at birth then? It seems like the only solution. I always bring up Shiloh Jolie-Pitt, would that be the way to raise kids, getting rid of all gender stereotypes.
So what about people who take hormone blockers or change their genetalia or get surgery to change their bone structure to resemble a different sex...... why is there a need for all that
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
Quote:
Originally posted by KareBear
Ok question for you(to everyone). Would you agree with NOT assigning a child gender at birth then? It seems like the only solution. I always bring up Shiloh Jolie-Pitt, would that be the way to raise kids, getting rid of all gender stereotypes.
So what about people who take hormone blockers or change their genetalia or get surgery to change their bone structure to resemble a different sex...... why is there a need for all that
|
The alteration of physical sex-based traits are to help produce a bodily state which better aligns with one's gender as society determines; many people who identifies as a woman is much more comfortable being perceived physically as that which we conventionally associate with womanhood. It truly is a "born in the wrong body" idea, because the way that society labels their body doesn't match with how they want to express themselves.
I would agree in a theoretical sense to not ascribing a gender to any child at birth, but I don't think that it would yet work practically on a mass scale. It would take everyone on Earth becoming suddenly way more accepting and socially liberal for that to work, and the majority of people would have to actually avoid assigning a gender to their kid or giving significance to their sex, which is about as unlikely as people no longer giving any significance to skin color. It's a desirable end because nobody really should be judged by their physical body over their personality and mind, but the means are simply not there right now.
In individual real cases, raising a child without "gendering" them per-se is admirable and wonderful, but exceptionally difficult to manage due to other people and outside influences being so negative.
I also don't know exactly where this fits into the discussion, but we should also note that the vast majority of people match up with, or are comfortable with, the gender they were assigned at birth. But, also, we don't really know why that is, or whether it's a product of environmental influence and general complacency or whether these people - if given the opportunity to explore their gender devoid of outside pressure - would naturally gravitate toward that gender.
It's a pretty complex issue!
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6,765
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
The alteration of physical sex-based traits are to help produce a bodily state which better aligns with one's gender as society determines; many people who identifies as a woman is much more comfortable being perceived physically as that which we conventionally associate with womanhood. It truly is a "born in the wrong body" idea, because the way that society labels their body doesn't match with how they want to express themselves.
I would agree in a theoretical sense to not ascribing a gender to any child at birth, but I don't think that it would yet work practically on a mass scale. It would take everyone on Earth becoming suddenly way more accepting and socially liberal for that to work, and the majority of people would have to actually avoid assigning a gender to their kid or giving significance to their sex, which is about as unlikely as people no longer giving any significance to skin color. It's a desirable end because nobody really should be judged by their physical body over their personality and mind, but the means are simply not there right now.
In individual real cases, raising a child without "gendering" them per-se is admirable and wonderful, but exceptionally difficult to manage due to other people and outside influences being so negative.
I also don't know exactly where this fits into the discussion, but we should also note that the vast majority of people match up with, or are comfortable with, the gender they were assigned at birth. But, also, we don't really know why that is, or whether it's a product of environmental influence and general complacency or whether these people - if given the opportunity to explore their gender devoid of outside pressure - would naturally gravitate toward that gender.
It's a pretty complex issue!
|
I see, it makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for being patient and answering my questions lol 
I'm really ignorant about this whole thing, Sorry!
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
Quote:
Originally posted by KareBear
I see, it makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for being patient and answering my questions lol
I'm really ignorant about this whole thing, Sorry! |
Oh no, you're fine, I'm just glad you could decipher my rambling! 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,836
|
If a brunette wants to be blonde and dies her hair, we call her blonde
If a boy wants to be a girl and dresses as one, we call her a female
Why would this be any different? I thought we were in the "age of acceptation" or something like that 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 10,514
|
Hm. I don't know the answer to this. My first thoughts are that sex and gender are comparable to ethnicity and race; gender and race are both social constructs that originate from sex and ethnicity, respectively. And, similarly, the expectations or perceptions of race and gender vary by culture and time period, which makes them difficult to define in concrete terms. I see how gender could be argued to be more internal (though I think gender and gender expression share an inherent link), and race is more of the result of external influences and judgments. However, I don't see how one could make an argument for transgender and against "transracial".
For example, yes, a white person who identified as "transracial" would not have the cultural upbringing of a ethnic minority and likely would not have a full understanding of the knowledge and struggles of that minority in that context. But, by that logic, I could see someone saying that a biological male could not identify with the female gender since the biological male never experienced life as a female and isn't fully aware of the societal expectations, double standards and teachings that are instilled in biological females from birth.
Obviously, that isn't right, so where does the difference lie? Gender is "instilled" (for lack of a better word) by society in children from birth based on the child's sex. Race is "instilled" by society in children from birth based on the child's ethnicity. What makes identifying as "transgender" legitimate and identifying as "transracial" illegitimate?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 19,477
|
Race is far more ambiguous though. It's less black-and-white (no pun intended) as people think. It's far more grey. Some people are clearly black, some people are clearly white, some people are clearly Asian. But there are so many people who can't just check one box. Hair colour and gender are definite. You're either blonde and male or you're not. You're either female and brunette or you're not.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/25/2012
Posts: 10,673
|
If so then let me go dunk my dark ass in some bleach real quick cause... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
