What's wrong with that? If I'm not mistaken this is a forum not Twitter. We are having rather civilized conversations as we should. Ideally this site would be full of essays, not short shady quips and "SLAY QUEEN" and "Not when _____ didn't even go platinum"s and the like.
And this is why I made this type of thread..
It's harder to troll because you have to really explain your reasoning (without sounding ignorant, delusional or simply misinformed).
And this is why I made this type of thread..
It's harder to troll because you have to really explain your reasoning (without sounding ignorant, delusional or simply misinformed).
Lol instead of trying to put so much time on an online forum to sound smart, go outside and take a deep breath.
"i think she overuses those vocal techniques rather than rationally use it to improve her musical artistry"-I cannot debate a subjective bias..I respect your opinion.
"the overabundant of vibrato lines make her songs sound souless and sometimes they don't match the theme and lyrics of the song" - Beyonce's prominent vibrato is simply apart of her voice, just as much as Whitney's vibrato is apart of hers, or the fact that John Legend has an inherent raspiness that will be with him until the day he dies. Beyonce has always had a natural vibrato, (it's perfectly space), but she can change the frequency, or depth (making it dramatic/light for artistic purposes). She's had it since a child (even then it was thick and noticeably).
i said overuse which doesn't mean her vibrato sounds more prominent than other ones but it' s because of frequency that she uses it or she might be tought to add vibrato in the end of every phase like a classial singer, i didn't say that i hate vibrato but to use it too much in the genre like R&B will ruin the soulfulness and " rusticity " of the genre because you know vibrato and graceful phrasing contain the polished feeling of clasical western music
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"adding head tone lines as the accompany in a pop song doesn't mean that song has opera influence, and it actually belong to the arrangement which was processed in studio" - I'm not talking about the notes themselves. I'm talking about the WAY the notes were sung. They were reinforced head tones were "classically" inspired. The way the vowels were formed, the sophisticated placement of her voice (she placed the note to receive full head resonance) and the style of the arpeggio scales resembled that of a classical singer spinning head tones in the 6th octave--full chord closure. Ofcourse it belonged in the arrangement because Beyonce added it; just like the way she would add overlapping undertones (usually melismatic phrases) in her songs for effect. This was a stylistic choice, to bring a different element to the song. Even though they were processed, Beyonce has been shown to exhibit the same feats live, during the live rendition of holy grail!
i'm not talking about the note too, i'm agree that it's just head tone ( with a little studio effect ) but it's just like that, what i heard in flawless is the just head tone which is the result of lack of balance between head and chest, the vowels doesn't matter to the quality of head tone. opera singers don't use pure head voice because it's very weak and unfavourable for breathing during singing the sound that they create is a balance between head register and chest which make it sound more thick and excellently clear and the tune that she sang is not arpeggio sine waveform either, it's just melisma in headvoice.
in that video she just sang with melisma in headvoice and with a la lot of reverb effect, nothing really special. i'm sorry
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"btw, the reason why beyonce can switch from head register to chest easily without break is because she has a natural voice of a lyrico coloratura which gives her the agility to do that" - I know that she's a lyric coloratura mezzo soprano. Having an agile voice does warrant some control, giving the voice ability to transition quickly throughout their vocal range, HOWEVER that doesn't give most the ability to have a range so connected, so even and perfectly mixed (blended), that one is able to bridge their passagios to the point of homogenity! --like beyonce. It's easy to transition from a head tone to a belt in one breath like most coloruturas i.e MARIAH, BUT it's quite a different story. To start from a rounded head note and slowly add chest resonance, through extreme breath control and gradual laryngeal (muscular) adjustments to produce a healthy well placed belt. As a coloratura, Mariah STILL wouldn't be able to replicate this feat because her range isn't as connected as beyonce because of the amount of chord control needed to make that transition without any register breaks--takes a well connected voice, one of Beyonce's or Whitney's caliber. It has nothing to do with voice type..Again, it was a stylistic choice.
Mariah is not a coloratua, she's just a full lyrico soprano with and incrediable range, her voice isn't agiel and usually break when switch between the registers. i also agree that beyonce has a very good breathing control skill which gives her the capability to switch between the registers in one breath but the smooth connection of her whole range is coloratua gift which gives her the capability to switch without breaking,. the coloratua in pop music is quite rare so i hardly give you many example. shirley Bassey is one of the coloraturas in pop music that i know, she's a cotralto coloratura with smooth connection between register and agility ( except head register because i've never see her use it ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPT-ARL7TLc
It's just a very different style that Patti has. You could say she takes away from the meaning but when she is SANGING "whyyyyyy ooohh WHYYYY CAAAAANN'T IIIIIIIIIII-iiiii-IIIII--iiii-IIIII" on Over the Rainbow, others can perceive the emotion, the intense desire and need to be over that rainbow, not some schmaltzy little wishing song. Who says its dreamy? The guy who wrote it? And so it must always be dreamy? A good cover thinks past the original intention of a song and makes it new. That is creativity. She makes it her own and I don't think you need to respect a melody to be creative. You can, but verging off from the rules of the melody gives you a chance to be creative. She doesn't even verge off the song's framework either. She still sings the lyrics, follows the general melody but add her flare.
As for Beyoncé, she does do all her vocal arranging. Someone may write a song with the melody and she will then take it and change it for her needs. Adding harmony, and all the other things you mentioned. She has been consistently assisting on the production of songs, and many people who have worked with her talk about how she knows exactly what she wants.
I'm not sure if you know Beyoncé's version, but here is the original demo. It's very similar, but the vocals are noticeably changed and improved. There is harmonies added, layering, etc.
Anyway, it's all opinion.
I get why someone wouldn't like Patti's singing style. I personally love it. I love the showmanship, I love the spectacle, I feel the emotion. You might not be we are not the same person.
i just answer the bolded phrase, about the rest we basically just go from agree to disagree so i should stop here
just look at the sheet, Over the rainbow was written in ionion scale which mean it's a bight, dreamy, hopeful and song ( not the scary version of Patti )
i just answer the bolded phrase, about the rest we basically just go from agree to disagree so i should stop here
just look at the sheet, Over the rainbow was written in ionion scale which mean it's a bight, dreamy, hopeful and song ( not the scary version of Patti )
lol I'm glad we can agree to disagree for some of it.
I just don't see how a song must always be how it was originally written. So many covers were made famous after changing the song completely. A great example is I Will Always Love You which originally had soft, calm vocals which Whitney then transformed into something completely different by belting it. Its perhaps not as big a change as Patti's Over the Rainbow but it is a change.
And Patti has been singing that song since the 1960s, where she originally respected the original intentions. Since then it has become a signature song for her and she's added to it, exaggerated it more, made it more into her own style which I think is perfectly fine. Of course though, even in the 1960s she was a bit exaggerated, but that's her style. She always says the voice just comes out.
So Tina Turner is and has been known for her vocal ability? Please.. I don't think i've EVER seen any performance from her or READ anything in all my 30 years about Tina's exceptional vocal ability.. Exceptional performer. yes. Vocalist? Rather limited.
And all that means is that you haven't seen a performance or read anything about her being an exceptional vocalist. It in no way proves that she isn't one. What you've seen or haven't seen doesn't stop something from being true.
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Originally posted by MusicandSoul
and to assume you know what i listen to, is absolutely pathetic, nonsensical and pretty dumb. All you know from me are words on a screen. Try again.
You just made up your own versions of Billie Holiday and Nina Simone, claiming they were amazing vocalists, when in reality, Nina didn't have a technically astounding instrument and Billie barely had a voice. Then you claimed that Beyonce and Tina were limited vocalists due to their growling and grunting, things Nina, one of the singers you said was a "real vocalist", did ALL the time. I don't have to know you personally to know that you're full of ****. You showed it yourself by making up fairy tales.
I would tell you to try again, but that would be pointless.
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Originally posted by MusicandSoul
Most people - and i mean REAL people not connected with the Hive and ATRL knows that Beyonce is limited vocally and she is, its blatantly obvious. She hardly conveys any emotion through any of her songs, instead she replaces any natural ability (what is there) with the overuse of her vibrato which completely diminishes the soul from her songs.. Tina done the exact same thing. Which is why Bey and Tina rely so heavily on a "PERFORMANCE" - they are both entertainers, not vocalists. I dont care what anyone says.
You and your inability to create coherent, logical arguments. This makes absolutely NO sense.
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Originally posted by MusicandSoul
and unfortunately for the convoluted and delusional hive - who ATTACK anyone that comes for Beyonce there are thousands of girls out here now that are miles ahead of Beyonce vocally. You will have to deal. I have up and coming singers on my instagram, facebook even REAL FRIENDS who sing FAR more creatively than Beyonce.
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Originally posted by MusicandSoul
They just don't or didnt have a girl group (which basically centered all around Beyonce), a dad as a manager, a label exec for a boyfriend ..
Your anger......
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Originally posted by MusicandSoul
When people here actually dare to claim Beyonce is more vocally creative than Mariah thats when i draw the line... Its actually RIDICULOUS.
Live, she is. She has far more varied interpretations of her songs than Mariah does of her own.
Mariah is not a coloratua, she's just a full lyrico soprano with and incrediable range, her voice isn't agiel and usually break when switch between the registers. i also agree that beyonce has a very good breathing control skill which gives her the capability to switch between the registers in one breath but the smooth connection of her whole range is coloratua gift which gives her the capability to switch without breaking,. the coloratua in pop music is quite rare so i hardly give you many example. shirley Bassey is one of the coloraturas in pop music that i know, she's a cotralto coloratura with smooth connection between register and agility ( except head register because i've never see her use it ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPT-ARL7TLc
Great vocal registration isn't a coloratura gift. It's a product of good vocal support and control. You can hear effortless switching back and forth between registers in all kinds of voices, both coloratura and non-coloratura.
And Mariah is most definitely a coloratura voice. Her voice isn't heavy enough to be a full-lyric and she constantly executes fast passages with immense virtuosity and control. Her voice breaks between registers (now) because it has deteriorated and she has almost no middle voice now.
And Bassey is a dramatic mezzo voice. She doesn't have the androgynous sound a contralto would have in the lower and middle registers and lacks the low tessitura.
She did the vocal production on her part and it's just... Heavenly. I love how she decided to use the echos the same way she'd been using them on tour during 1+1. She's can create an atmosphere with her vocals. Amazing.
No. Her phrasing is almost non-existent, her style of singing is not unique in any way and so arent her vocal arrangements. Unfortunatelly, the color of her voice is not easily distinguishable, that doesnt help.
Her technique is very good for a pop/RnB singer, but definitely not creative imo.
No. Her phrasing is almost non-existent, her style of singing is not unique in any way and so arent her vocal arrangements. Unfortunatelly, the color of her voice is not easily distinguishable, that doesnt help.
Her technique is very good for a pop/RnB singer, but definitely not creative imo.
Her style of singing combines rhythmic hip-hop delivery with R&B virtuoso, something unique to her. And that shows in her phrasing, which can be melismatic, legato and rapid-fire staccato all at the same time.
No. Her phrasing is almost non-existent, her style of singing is not unique in any way and so arent her vocal arrangements. Unfortunatelly, the color of her voice is not easily distinguishable, that doesnt help.
Her technique is very good for a pop/RnB singer, but definitely not creative imo.
It is one of the most unique.
And all of those videos her phrasing is impressive to say the least.
Great vocal registration isn't a coloratura gift. It's a product of good vocal support and control. You can hear effortless switching back and forth between registers in all kinds of voices, both coloratura and non-coloratura.
And Mariah is most definitely a coloratura voice. Her voice isn't heavy enough to be a full-lyric and she constantly executes fast passages with immense virtuosity and control. Her voice breaks between registers (now) because it has deteriorated and she has almost no middle voice now.
And Bassey is a dramatic mezzo voice. She doesn't have the androgynous sound a contralto would have in the lower and middle registers and lacks the low tessitura.
Chimier, I don't think he has a clue of anything he's talking about to be honest.. Look at the type of stuff he says. I don't think any more of his comments warrants my response, tbh.
"t head tone which is the result of lack of balance between head and chest, the vowels doesn't matter to the quality of head tone. opera singers don't use pure head voice because it's very weak and unfavourable for breathing during singing the sound that they create is a balance between head register and chest which make it sound more thick and excellently clear and the tune that she sang is not arpeggio sine waveform either," - Like....WHATTTTTTT!! none of it makes any logical sense.
Her style of singing combines rhythmic hip-hop delivery with R&B virtuoso, something unique to her. And that shows in her phrasing, which can be melismatic, legato and rapid-fire staccato all at the same time.
Rhythmic hip-hop delivery with R&B virtuoso? Unique? No, sorry.
Again, as I have said, she is technically very good, but doesnt have unique style and/or phrasing. You dont have to be technically good to be a creative or unique singer. Some singers are lucky to have their distinctive voices, and some create a distinctive style, unique phrasing, experiment with vocal arrangements etc. Beyonce doesnt. She has the technique, but not originality. She is very boring and predictable vocalist imo. Its not like I dont know what Im talking about, and we had a few similar debates about vocals, Chimier. I respect your opinion, please respect mine and lets agree to disagree this time.
And those vids posted here dont help to change my opinion, more like the other way around, it just reassured me.
Rhythmic hip-hop delivery with R&B virtuoso? Unique? No, sorry.
Again, as I have said, she is technically very good, but doesnt have unique style and/or phrasing. You dont have to be technically good to be a creative or unique singer. Some singers are lucky to have their distinctive voices, and some create a distinctive style, unique phrasing, experiment with vocal arrangements etc. Beyonce doesnt. She has the technique, but not originality. She is very boring and predictable vocalist imo. Its not like I dont know what Im talking about, and we had a few similar debates about vocals, Chimier. I respect your opinion, please respect mine and lets agree to disagree this time.
And those vids posted here dont help to change my opinion, more like the other way around, it just reassured me.
You can't really disagree, because there's no other mainstream (or non mainstream for that matter) vocalist out there doing what Bey does. Not before she did anyway and definitely not as well as her. If there are, feel free to post videos of singers who did what Bey does (rap-singing) before her or better than her.
You can't really disagree, because there's no other mainstream (or non mainstream for that matter) vocalist out there doing what Bey does. Not before she did anyway and definitely not as well as her. If there are, feel free to post videos of singers who did what Bey does (rap-singing) before her or better than her.
Yes, I can and I am.
Just click on similar artists on last.fm and you will find quite a few girls who do that and more among the results. There is nothing unique about Beys singing. But you can always disagree
Its almost 3 am here, im too tired to fight, especially with deluded stans. Night
I forgot to add, being a creative singer has nothing to do with how many subgenres have you tried, as many posters here seem to think. You can do only one genre the whole life and still be a creative vocalist.
I also think, in a different way, Sia is one of the most vocally creative singers out there. The way she doesn't even need to sing words, but sometimes just sings vowels and conveys so much emotion through them. The last 2 minutes of Dressed In Black is her just wailing and doing different riffs and it sounds so emotional.....same with the "ohhh"s in Eye of the Needle. She does so many creative things with her voice.
Exceptional performer. yes. Vocalist? Rather limited.
