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Discussion: Is Beyonce at Madonna/MJ level?
Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreasyBruce
Dark Lorde pls stop. Madonna is not on MJ's level commercially or "impact-wise". It is known and considering what that level of fame did to MJ we should be thankful.
Although she DID outlast him. It's a bit like Beyonce and Britney, on a micro scale. Britney has the bigger overall career and much much much bigger peak, but was outlasted by Beyonce in the end.
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She didn't outlast him, Michael's first hit was in 1969, that's 14 years before Madonna's first hit. They're not even contemporaries tbh
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 3,035
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When did king bey pass whitney, mariah, britney, pink, christina, justin timberlake, bruno mars, or even miley cyrus again?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,371
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Quote:
Originally posted by Acid Reign
Of course Madonna and MJ were at the same level. The King and the Queen of pop. Undisputed. There will never be pop royalty like them or even coming close ever again.
They're both magnificent in every way. I play them both daily. They both had/still have a huge impact on my life, and I'm sure countless others.
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Google King Of Pop. Google Queen of Pop. The former is a certainty to Michael, the latter is largely more mixed.
Regardless, that doesn't hold much weight. I agree both are mammoths of influence, and both will all but certainly never be topped. But Michael Jackson is leaps and bounds ahead of Madonna. That doesn't make her any less of the great artist she is, it's just Michael is untouchable.
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Member Since: 9/2/2012
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
Originally posted by ISlayForX
When did king bey pass whitney, mariah, britney, pink, christina, justin timberlake, bruno mars, or even miley cyrus again?
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tutankhamun
I don't even stan for Janet but let me break it down for you sis.
Let's say Janet's breakout year was 1986 and Beyonce 1999.
5 years into her career,
Janet released two critically acclaimed blockbuster albums Control and RN1814. Both yielded multiple smash hits and iconic music videos. She brought creative control, rebellion and feminist messages to her music, even before Madonna did her thing. Her dancing style influenced countless popstars, including Britney Spears, whose legacy and impact exceeded Beyonce's.
10 years into her career,
Janet released another two highly praised iconic albums janet. and Velvet Rope. She was the first one to set the trend of "personal album" with VR and the janet. era was one of the most successful eras of the 90's, commercially and critically.
15 years into her career,
Janet was still topping the charts with All For You and the biggest stars at the time Britney Spears and N‘Sync were citing her as their major influence.
Now can you tell me which aspect has Beyonce surpassed Miss Janet now that it's her 15th year?
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What does Janet have to do with this? I didn't mention her in my comment once. If you want to talk about her sure though. She had a lot of great success. But for whatever reason for the celebrities of her generation she isn't really remembered the same way that MJ or Madonna are. She's not really on the pop-culture map so much anymore in that way and a lot of her early music has become majorly dated (New Jack Swing for example).
Now to the comparisons. I'll mimic your breakdown.
5 Years into Beyonce's career
After having been the lead singer of one of the biggest girl-groups of all time, collecting critical and commercial praise, hit after hit, Beyonce went solo and released an album containing the iconic song, Crazy in Love (among other notable hits), that managed to make it onto just about every critic's Decade End List, topping many of them. Her debut album got a record setting 5 Grammys and like Janet, inspired a whole wave of new R&B-pop stars like Rihanna, Amerie, Christina Milian, Teairra Mari, Kat Deluna etc.
10 Years into her Career
Beyonce had just released a very successful album with it's own hits and records and Grammys and was onto her next. She won another record setting amount of Grammys (6, this time breaking a record not just matching it). The release of IASF spawned multiple hit singles, and included the most iconic music video since BOMT, Single Ladies which had everyone from your neighbours to the Kardashians to Obama to Joe Jonas to Justin Timberlake to babies partaking in the dance movement. It was one of the biggest pop culture moments of the 2000s.
15 Years into her Career
At midnight on Decemeber 13, 2013 Beyonce released her surprise visual album which went on to become the best selling female album of the year with just over 2 weeks of sales. It broke records, it sold immensely, it was on every music blog, it made global headlines. What was special about this work though wasn't the sales or the surprise but the fact that she put the focus back on an album as a whole after the music industry had been single-focused for so long. This was an artistic masterwork. It brought up questions of ownership as an artist, identity as a woman/wife/mother, sexuality, the music industry, etc. and showed that art still does exist in pop music for those who wish to seize it.
They may not have the exact career comparisons, but come on. Beyonce is on a level of success and admiration that Janet was on too, only I think Beyonce owns her position a bit more.
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Member Since: 4/29/2011
Posts: 6,884
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The fact that this was actually discussed for 12 active pages.  And the fact that I read all 12 pages. 
I'm not sure why some of you insist on drawing comparisons to today's acts to the acts who came before them. Sorry to say it, but they will lose every time. And it's not their fault, because the acts of the 80s and 90s often fail to surpass the acts of the 60s and 70s. It's just a generational cycle. The context and parameters at which success is measured varies from generation to generation, so there is no method to accurately draw a parallel between the artists.
The MJ vs Madonna mini-discussion. Madonna is popular, but MJ is another level of fame and talent. Madonna can be as artistic as she wants, and MJ can be a repetitive as he wants, but none of Madonna's albums can measure up to MJ's OTW, Thriller, Bad trifecta - albums that [helped] set the tone of pop music. MJ is arguably the only artist whose art transcends age, race, culture, genre, generation, etc. His virtuosic dancing ability, signature vocal inflections and styling, and seasoned performing continues to resonate in people galaxy-wide. He is popular in every corner of the globe. Madonna is not one of those artists. So in the end, Madonna isn't on MJ's level.
As for Beyonce being on MJ and/or Madonna's level, the answer is no, she is not, and will never be because the context and parameters are different for measuring success. And just because she just never will. That is not to say she is not successful in her own right, but it's just not in the cards for her. She's not nearly as popular as either artist in the US or internationally. She sells music that doesn't allow it to radiate with music lovers from all walks of life, and it's esoteric. What she has done is built a brand that allows her to market herself and increase her popularity. Even when it is all said and done, she still wont be on MJ and/or Madonna's level.
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Member Since: 1/5/2014
Posts: 5,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
What does Janet have to do with this? I didn't mention her in my comment once. If you want to talk about her sure though. She had a lot of great success. But for whatever reason for the celebrities of her generation she isn't really remembered the same way that MJ or Madonna are. She's not really on the pop-culture map so much anymore in that way and a lot of her early music has become majorly dated (New Jack Swing for example).
Now to the comparisons. I'll mimic your breakdown.
5 Years into Beyonce's career
After having been the lead singer of one of the biggest girl-groups of all time, collecting critical and commercial praise, hit after hit, Beyonce went solo and released an album containing the iconic song, Crazy in Love (among other notable hits), that managed to make it onto just about every critic's Decade End List, topping many of them. Her debut album got a record setting 5 Grammys and like Janet, inspired a whole wave of new R&B-pop stars like Rihanna, Amerie, Christina Milian, Teairra Mari, Kat Deluna etc.
10 Years into her Career
Beyonce had just released a very successful album with it's own hits and records and Grammys and was onto her next. She won another record setting amount of Grammys (6, this time breaking a record not just matching it). The release of IASF spawned multiple hit singles, and included the most iconic music video since BOMT, Single Ladies which had everyone from your neighbours to the Kardashians to Obama to Joe Jonas to Justin Timberlake to babies partaking in the dance movement. It was one of the biggest pop culture moments of the 2000s.
15 Years into her Career
At midnight on Decemeber 13, 2013 Beyonce released her surprise visual album which went on to become the best selling female album of the year with just over 2 weeks of sales. It broke records, it sold immensely, it was on every music blog, it made global headlines. What was special about this work though wasn't the sales or the surprise but the fact that she put the focus back on an album as a whole after the music industry had been single-focused for so long. This was an artistic masterwork. It brought up questions of ownership as an artist, identity as a woman/wife/mother, sexuality, the music industry, etc. and showed that art still does exist in pop music for those who wish to seize it.
They may not have the exact career comparisons, but come on. Beyonce is on a level of success and admiration that Janet was on too, only I think Beyonce owns her position a bit more.
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I was pointing out the fact that Beyonce can't even reach Janet's glory days, let alone the status of Madonna and even MJ.
Girl BYE. Amerie and Christina M. debuted BEFORE Beyonce. Rihanna was a straight up dance-pop singer and Kat Deluna was a Shakira-Xtina mix. And are you simply ignoring the existence of Aaliyah?
I agree that Single Ladies was a huge phenomenon but what long-lasting impact did it have except for a couple of cute parodies?
Summing up Beyonce's solo career, she basically had two iconic classics Crazy In Love and Single Ladies, and two huge crazes, the Single Ladies dance and the surprise release. Is she one of the biggest stars of our generations? Yes for sure. But she has minimal influence on shifting the trends of music and fashion. Her brand is extremely successful but it is impossible for anyone these days to achieve what the pop royalties had done 30 years ago since all the boundaries and doors have already been opened.
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Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 3,830
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How about no. Also, no pop star reached Michael's level. Ever. That includes Madonna.
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Member Since: 1/5/2014
Posts: 5,399
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kali.
How about no. Also, no pop star reached Michael's level. Ever. That includes Madonna.
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The Beatles, Elvis, MJ and Madonna are generally lumped together as the Big 4.
But since MJ supporters love insisting on that MJ was levels above Madonna, you guys may as well acknowledge the fact that Elvis was the biggest pop star of all time. He invented and defined the meaning of a pop star. His impact, popularity and sales exceeded MJ by miles, without the advance of global media. 
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Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 8,759
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Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 13,171
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tutankhamun
I was pointing out the fact that Beyonce can't even reach Janet's glory days, let alone the status of Madonna and even MJ.
Girl BYE. Amerie and Christina M. debuted BEFORE Beyonce. Rihanna was a straight up dance-pop singer and Kat Deluna was a Shakira-Xtina mix. And are you simply ignoring the existence of Aaliyah?
I agree that Single Ladies was a huge phenomenon but what long-lasting impact did it have except for a couple of cute parodies?
Summing up Beyonce's solo career, she basically had two iconic classics Crazy In Love and Single Ladies, and two huge crazes, the Single Ladies dance and the surprise release. Is she one of the biggest stars of our generations? Yes for sure. But she has minimal influence on shifting the trends of music and fashion. Her brand is extremely successful but it is impossible for anyone these days to achieve what the pop royalties had done 30 years ago since all the boundaries and doors have already been opened.
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1. Are you kidding? K. The 1000th issue of the Entertainment Weekly which celebrates "the new classics: the 1000 best movies, TV shows, albums, books, etc. from 1983 to 2008" ranks Dangerously in Love 19th of the Top 100 Best Albums of the past 25 years. The album is ranked at number 183 on the 200 definitive albums that shaped rock and roll according to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
2. I refuse to acknowledge this part. as late as last week Politics mentioned Single Ladies. The K-Pop female artists music videos are a non stop remake of Single Ladies. "Put A Ring On It" is often mentionned on social media since the song burst. PSY acknowledged SL as the source of inspiration for what became the biggest dance craze on the planet.
3. why would you consider Beyoncé solo career only when you ackownledge she burst in 1999? DC adds a couple of iconic classics to Beyoncé discography. + I don't think of any Janet song being as remember as SL and CIL.
4. you mentionned the fact that Janet was still topping the chart 15 years into her career. when Beyoncé will have a #1 with her next era 20 years into her career what will you say? charts is the last measure to take into consideraiton when you're talk about Beyoncé. Beyoncé and DC have 14 #1s (when you mix UK and US). she has nothing left to prove. she spent more weeks at #1 than Janet. she hits #1 it's huge it's not a mere 1-2 weeks at #1. she has moved up to quality over quantity.
Beyoncé hasn't surpassed Madonna and Michael Jackson but come on as of 2013 Bey >= Janet. not mentioning Janet never had the celebrity power Beyoncé had.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 12,517
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Quote:
Originally posted by J a y
Wouldn't it be like this? - Elvis Presley and The Beatles
- Michael Jackson, Madonna, Elton John
- Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion
- Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, AC/DC, Queen, Rolling Stones
- Britney Spears, Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, Rihanna
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Obviously in 30 years people will view at them like this
1. Beyoncé
2. Michael Jackson, Queen, The Beatles, Elvis Presley
3. Stones, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey
4. Celine Dion, ACDC, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd
5. Amy Winehouse, Rihanna, Britney Spears
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty
It's so funny to see how floppy you are 
Michael has a tour that made $125M in 1988. That tour sold 4.4 million tickets. Michael has a tour that made $250M in 1997. That tour sold 4.5 million tickets.
Madonna had grosses nowhere near that pre-2000s touring revenue. Madonna has never come close to selling that many tickets for a concert tour.
Michael Jackson is in the dance hall of fame - no other pop musician has ever been inducted. World. Class. Sit down, you're embarrassing. Madonna is literally an awful dancer if you're comparing her to Michael, as are all the pop girls and guys. I'm convinced you're trolling with that stuff about him doing "the same dancing," as if by comparison Madge had styles to switch up
LOL at your rambling delusional about Michael's albums and risk taking. It's too funny to see you call me delusional as you pretend Michael's record like Off The Wall (disco) is the same as Thriller (pop, rock), Dangerous (New Jack Swing, R&B), HIStory (Opera, pop, hiphop, blues/gospel), BOTDF (dance).... Your opinion of the quality of Michael's album is as irrelevant as you are deluded.
In the world of impact, Madge is a blip next to Michael Jackson. In the world of success, she doesn't register next to Michael. Do yourself a favor, venture outside ATRL and see just how much the GP loves Madge next to Michael rather than pretending to know you flop 
BTW, you're in the running for my new sig with your "I never use his dancing style" congrats sis! |
kii at your ticket receipts, let me make it clear for you kid.
what is the most important thing which fans, labels, magazine ( billboard, rolling stone, forbes ect ect ) even haters, all people care ? that's the touring GROSS. nobody give a **** how many tickets the artist sold, how cheap/ expensive your ticket is, what people care is GROSS, so gain, stop your ****ing tickets crap
and wait ! why did you only mention touring revenue in pre-2000? but not after 2000 ? oh, i just remember, MJ hadn't had a career since 2000 lol, MJ stans are kind stucking in the past because that's the only thing you can stick with.
Let's talk about his induction into dance hall of fame, how ironic that his name hadn't been inducted into dance HOF when he reached his peak or he's alive a big artist will automatically be more respected after their death, the induction into Dance HOF belongs to many other effects ( including selling a lot of records)whic were caused by his death. so we will talk about Madonna's induction into ___(some kind of )___hall of fame after her death.
actually, i don't want to wash my time to convince you to like Madonna dancing, your delusion is not worthy, she still has billions of fans waiting her out there.
before talking about the genres that you listed from his discography, just let me lol for a moment at Opera =))))
compare the diversity of MJ music to Madonnas is totally delusion and ignorance =)))) Madonna covering more genres and topics tha than MJ, that's ther truth, unless you've never heard full of her discography, to help you, i just name a few : electronica, folktronica, disco, dance, EDM, R&B, world, latin, pop, baroque pop, new jack swing, soul, jazz, musical, gospel, trip hop, ambient, ............
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In the world of impact, Madge is a blip next to Michael Jackson. In the world of success, she doesn't register next to Michael. Do yourself a favor, venture outside ATRL and see just how much the GP loves Madge next to Michael rather than pretending to know you flop
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i will let alone this phrase as well as letting you drown yourself in delusion if it makes you feel better to think MJ is more impactful than Madonna.
and GP is not a person, you will never have idea which one they prefer
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Regardless, that doesn't hold much weight. I agree both are mammoths of influence, and both will all but certainly never be topped. But Michael Jackson is leaps and bounds ahead of Madonna. That doesn't make her any less of the great artist she is, it's just Michael is untouchable.
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yeah i agree he's untouchable, who wants to touch the grave depth ? ( report this comment if you want )
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Member Since: 9/5/2011
Posts: 9,174
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Quote:
Originally posted by tittieslap
A true legend stands on their own level. So no.
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*goes back to reading*
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 5,910
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How did this thread turn into Madonna vs MJ stan war?  Madonna is no where near MJ's level, she would have to first jump over Elvis, James Brown and the Beatles to get there and that will never happen.
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Member Since: 9/16/2011
Posts: 2,117
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12 pages  .. only even this thread proves beyonce at Madonna/MJ level..  Bey power 
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Member Since: 6/29/2011
Posts: 11,522
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yes tbh 
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Member Since: 3/3/2014
Posts: 205
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Technically she is in her own range because there willl never be another her. We can put faces on Madonna and MJ all we want but they aren't on the same levels themselves. MJ is in his own league and so is Madonna. Beyonce is in her own league and nothing will compare to her in the next 10-20 years. All of what she does now will be considered a Gold Standard when she is gone. We are long past singing and dancing at the same time or even being considered an entertainer.
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Member Since: 8/22/2011
Posts: 933
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yall give britney too much
she has the impact and sales but lacks the longevity she's been off for about 6 years.
Beyonce has it all. She isnt at that level yet but she's created her own lane.
Respect it.
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Member Since: 1/31/2012
Posts: 19,942
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Not yet. Knowing you, you made this thread in an effort to get Bey dragged.
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