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Discussion: Myths about Racism and Privilege
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 1,748
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Originally posted by KoreanDream
1) Nothing about this post advocates treating people differently because of their race.
2) No, I would argue that it is not; the whole point of black people using the n-word is to readopt a word that was used to dehumanize blacks for hundreds of years. It's almost powerful; how better does one reject a word that has been so filled with hatred than to use it as part of a community's everyday language? White people using the word recalls that history, black people using it does not.
3) That's not the point. This post does not say that white people have easy lives, nor does it imply that. It's simply saying that in Western society, and in many other societies globally, that white people enjoy advantages because of their skin color. And although this post does drift towards expecting white people to feel guilty for being white, it by no means is blaming slavery on the white people of today.
4) This is true. The discussion that followed the original post regarding the true essence of racism was more referring to systemic racism in the United States, which no, whites have not experienced.
5) There is data to support that claim. You might want to do some research about that before you claim that it is untrue.
6) This is understood and has been raised multiple times in this thread. Racism is typically most associated with black people in the United States because of our history of slavery and the huge impacts that it still has today in American society. No knowledgeable person in this thread, like myself and Jameson Teqkilla, have claimed that racism is not and has not been experienced by other races. In fact, I have mentioned in nearly every post of mine thus far that racism affects people of color and not just blacks, a term which includes Japanese-Americans and Native Americans.
7) Affirmative action has become more discriminatory in regards to class than race in recent years, so no, that is not true. And furthermore, it was established to offer minorities a chance to receive the same opportunities that white people had had, after the civil rights movement of the 1960s. If you take a quick look at political offices, college attendance rates, etc. you'd find that white people have no trouble achieving in these avenues because of the fact that our society was built upon white supremacy. Even after the installation of affirmative action, minorities are still disproportionately represented in government and the workplace, and that has a lot to do with its shifting character in the last 10-15 years, something you may want to read up on. Thus, no, reverse racism is not systemically real; racism in the systemic sense, which is its sociological definition, only affects people of color in most societies globally and particularly in the United States. Yes, white people may experience prejudice and casual racism, but they do not experience systemic racism.
8) Again, I would agree that the post veers towards expecting white people to feel guilty for their skin color towards the end but overall its intention is to make it clear that white people have privilege in American society to this day that people of color do not. And while it is no excuse for the bias apparent in the latter portion of this post, the large amounts of ignorance regarding racism (like your post, might I add) can only lead one to become heated when trying to educate on the topic.
9) It's not okay and that kind of behavior should not be supported, or even ignored. However, given the history of the United States (don't you just love all the effects it has even today?), a white person making jokes about African-Americans tends to sting more than a minority making jokes about African-Americans. At face value, it is the same thing, but given the history of the United States, it becomes something much greater.
10) True, but sociologically, they are not defined as the same thing, and that is clearly the angle from which this girl has constructed her argument. The definitions of the terms is being overly stressed in this thread and by you; the major point she makes is what is truly important, and that point is quite valid. Furthermore, the fact that this post came from Tumblr is irrelevant. It takes nothing away from her argument and that is a straw man there you have constructed.
11) I'm not telling you black people have an awful life, because that's not a statement I can make. I am telling you that institutionalized racism is very, very real. Black people still don't attend college as often as white people, still don't receive equality in pay and job opportunities as white people, and still don't receive grants and loans as freely as white people do. There are a million other examples that I could provide for you to show you that the system still works against people of color. Given all the odds that are stacked against black people, a lot of these programs are conceptually quite fantastic attempts to break those barriers down. The government's handling of those programs is a discussion for another time, but in essence they are great.
12) You are referred to as white because Caucasian is not the same thing and because it does not describe all white people. Instead of being angry about being called white and using that as an excuse to call other people whatever you want (essentially fighting perceived ignorance with more ignorance), you should simply talk to people on a 1-to-1 basis and let them know how you prefer to be referred to.
13) Whether you consider the n-word to be a good word to reclaim or not is irrelevant because you are not black, sorry to say. If people of the black community believe that the n-word affords them a bit of ease with a history so oppressive then so be it. You are not to judge in that case.
The original was not about making white people feel bad and asking them to be slaves to people of color. It was asking white people to be aware that things are not as equal as most would have you believe, and to take that awareness and use it to fight ignorance that you see and hear. Consciousness is a small step to take and it has hugely positive effects.
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1) Fair enough
2) If Blacks actually cared about how horrifying and historically scarring the N word is, they would stop using it. A word is a word; it's like a bunch of gay guys calling each other "f**s" to make them "proud" and "stronger."
3) I think that although the author doesn't explicitly state that, she does imply that there should be some kind of "White guilt," where the Whites of today should feel sorry for what happened centuries ago.
5) The study in question has been attacked for fallacies in the experiment design as well as the sampling size and margin of error, so the results are still questionable.
7) Have you thought that maybe other cultures / societies, such as the Asian-American culture, tend to place a higher value on education than do other races (Whites, Blacks, etc. included)? There's a reason that Asians are less than far below 5% of the US population but exceed 25% of the population at Ivy League colleges. At high schools, Whites and Blacks are offered exactly the same opportunities - we all have the same opportunity to take AP Classes, honors classes, get help from the counseling center, etc. The fact that the high school's white population ends up having a higher average GPA than the Black population is not a reflection of White supremacy, if we were all given the same textbooks / homework, etc. If we all go to the same HS, live in the same area, are around the same income, we should be getting the same chance to go to a college. The fact that Asians and Whites are overrepresented in AP classes and Blacks underrepresented does not represent White supremacy - why should Blacks, in 2013, get an easier way in to college? They basically have to work not as hard in High School to achieve the same college attendance as a white/asian person.
10) You shouldn't be allowed to define words for whatever you want just to aid your argument, and she provided no legitimate reason to define the words as she did. Dictionaries, references, etc. all disagree with her.
12) The labels people put on race can get really annoying. It is not my job to ask each Black person "Do you prefer to be called AA, or Black?" If I must do that for them, to make sure I don't offend them, they should do the return for me.
13. I have a right to say what others do. If two Blacks can address each others as "my n____," I should be able to call my White friend that. It is simple Freedom of Speech.
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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Cracka you don't know **** about Black people. Don't be tellin me not to say ***** like you understand ****. I will say ***** as much as I damn well pls. You will NOT, and you will DEAL.
Ol pasty ass.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 1,748
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Quote:
Originally posted by BLaCKPoWeR
Cracka you don't know **** about Black people. Don't be tellin me not to say ***** like you understand ****. I will say ***** as much as I damn well pls. You will NOT, and you will DEAL.
Ol pasty ass.
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I will use exactly which words I do so please and you cannot do anything to stop me, as if you have any control over what I say
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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So you intend to call me a ******?
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Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 30,284
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******
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hooligan
******
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***** what?
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 1,748
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Quote:
Originally posted by BLaCKPoWeR
So you intend to call me a ******?
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Never once did I say I will go and actively call Blacks *******. I said I believe I should have the RIGHT to do so, and you shouldn't be allowed to take that from me.
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Member Since: 6/7/2011
Posts: 22,128
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoThisAnymore
1) Fair enough
2) If Blacks actually cared about how horrifying and historically scarring the N word is, they would stop using it. A word is a word; it's like a bunch of gay guys calling each other "f**s" to make them "proud" and "stronger."
3) I think that although the author doesn't explicitly state that, she does imply that there should be some kind of "White guilt," where the Whites of today should feel sorry for what happened centuries ago.
5) The study in question has been attacked for fallacies in the experiment design as well as the sampling size and margin of error, so the results are still questionable.
7) Have you thought that maybe other cultures / societies, such as the Asian-American culture, tend to place a higher value on education than do other races (Whites, Blacks, etc. included)? There's a reason that Asians are less than far below 5% of the US population but exceed 25% of the population at Ivy League colleges. At high schools, Whites and Blacks are offered exactly the same opportunities - we all have the same opportunity to take AP Classes, honors classes, get help from the counseling center, etc. The fact that the high school's white population ends up having a higher average GPA than the Black population is not a reflection of White supremacy, if we were all given the same textbooks / homework, etc. If we all go to the same HS, live in the same area, are around the same income, we should be getting the same chance to go to a college. The fact that Asians and Whites are overrepresented in AP classes and Blacks underrepresented does not represent White supremacy - why should Blacks, in 2013, get an easier way in to college? They basically have to work not as hard in High School to achieve the same college attendance as a white/asian person.
10) You shouldn't be allowed to define words for whatever you want just to aid your argument, and she provided no legitimate reason to define the words as she did. Dictionaries, references, etc. all disagree with her.
12) The labels people put on race can get really annoying. It is not my job to ask each Black person "Do you prefer to be called AA, or Black?" If I must do that for them, to make sure I don't offend them, they should do the return for me.
13. I have a right to say what others do. If two Blacks can address each others as "my n____," I should be able to call my White friend that. It is simple Freedom of Speech.
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2) Why are you judging what black people care about and the motive behind the usage of the word? Not to be rude, but you're not black and so you don't get it - and that's okay to say! You don't have to agree or disagree, on some things you can be indifferent, and maybe this should be one of those things.
3) She does, and that's definitely not something I agree with or that should be enforced.
5) There are less extreme examples of black men and white men with the same college educations and degrees not making equal salaries or getting equal job opportunities. If that doesn't bother you, then I'd be worried.
7) That's not how it works, though. Black people tend not to live in areas where those classes and academic opportunities are available to them, and a lot of that has to do with Reagan's dismantling of social programs that were serving to elevate the status of blacks. There's a fantastic book called Pipe Dream Blues by Clarence Lusane which covers that topic; you may want to read into it so you can begin to form some answers as to what the point of affirmative action is. Black people don't have equal opportunity, not even in high school.
10) Sociology does define racism that way, though.
12) Given the history of marginalization that black people have experienced there's really no reason for them to ask you that. White people don't have words like the n-word, negro, and colored in the catalog of words to describe them, and black people do. It's for that reason that there have been such a large number of terms and why it's best to simply ask and avoid being offensive. Why be offensive if you don't have to be? The history of racism doesn't affect how people view you and what people call you, and it does with black people. Why ignore that consciously instead of acknowledging it and doing what you can to be inclusive and compassionate?
13) Go ahead! But don't be surprised by the reactions that you get. It's extremely ignorant of the history of that word and its usage today to use it as you desire to, but if you want to, then nobody is stopping you. But again, why be offensive like that on purpose? Why do you need to use the word so badly? What about being denied something that trivial is so awful for you when compared to the large things that black people are denied regularly? Not to play Oppression Olympics, but the point stands.
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Banned
Member Since: 10/28/2011
Posts: 21,283
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoThisAnymore
Never once did I say I will go and actively call Blacks *******. I said I believe I should have the RIGHT to do so, and you shouldn't be allowed to take that from me.
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So you believe you deserve the right to demean me with word?
Hang it up, flatscreen. 
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 2,667
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not someone's username being BLaCKPoWeR 
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 25,476
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I don't agree with some of her points in the OP.  But I agreed way more with some of the comments in this thread than I did with the OP. Good read nonetheless.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 1,748
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Quote:
Originally posted by KoreanDream
2) Why are you judging what black people care about and the motive behind the usage of the word? Not to be rude, but you're not black and so you don't get it - and that's okay to say! You don't have to agree or disagree, on some things you can be indifferent, and maybe this should be one of those things.
3) She does, and that's definitely not something I agree with or that should be enforced.
5) There are less extreme examples of black men and white men with the same college educations and degrees not making equal salaries or getting equal job opportunities. If that doesn't bother you, then I'd be worried.
7) That's not how it works, though. Black people tend not to live in areas where those classes and academic opportunities are available to them, and a lot of that has to do with Reagan's dismantling of social programs that were serving to elevate the status of blacks. There's a fantastic book called Pipe Dream Blues by Clarence Lusane which covers that topic; you may want to read into it so you can begin to form some answers as to what the point of affirmative action is. Black people don't have equal opportunity, not even in high school.
10) Sociology does define racism that way, though.
12) Given the history of marginalization that black people have experienced there's really no reason for them to ask you that. White people don't have words like the n-word, negro, and colored in the catalog of words to describe them, and black people do. It's for that reason that there have been such a large number of terms and why it's best to simply ask and avoid being offensive. Why be offensive if you don't have to be? The history of racism doesn't affect how people view you and what people call you, and it does with black people. Why ignore that consciously instead of acknowledging it and doing what you can to be inclusive and compassionate?
13) Go ahead! But don't be surprised by the reactions that you get. It's extremely ignorant of the history of that word and its usage today to use it as you desire to, but if you want to, then nobody is stopping you. But again, why be offensive like that on purpose? Why do you need to use the word so badly? What about being denied something that trivial is so awful for you when compared to the large things that black people are denied regularly? Not to play Oppression Olympics, but the point stands.
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(Thank you for engaging in a civil conversation with me, unlike other people in this thread  )
Just in general: of course there is discrimination against Blacks, I do acknowledge that there are lingering problems and attitudes from slavery.
5) You are correct.
7) I don't really have an answer for that, and I realize that my explanation beforehand was pretty ignorant. Thank you for explaining that further.
12) You are 100% correct, I don't actually care whether I'm called White or Caucasian or Jewish or whatever, it's just theoretically I feel that as a society we should be at a point where labels don't really matter. I guess it's just me being overly ideological, because that probably won't happen.
13) I don't actually intend to go around calling Blacks that word, or go around thinking about them in that way. It's just a weird fascination with the word that should really just be dropped, in search of more empowering words that could be used instead.
Overall I agree with you on a lot of things, and you are much more informed about this than I am, so I do need to research it more before I form my opinion.
Thank you for actually using factual data and not the horrendous reasoning / mode of logic in the OP's powerpoint. I wish more people on this forum were like you!
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 1,748
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Quote:
Originally posted by BLaCKPoWeR
So you believe you deserve the right to demean me with word?
Hang it up, flatscreen. |
Not you coming at me with a Nicki verse quote 
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Member Since: 6/7/2011
Posts: 22,128
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoThisAnymore
(Thank you for engaging in a civil conversation with me, unlike other people in this thread )
Just in general: of course there is discrimination against Blacks, I do acknowledge that there are lingering problems and attitudes from slavery.
5) You are correct.
7) I don't really have an answer for that, and I realize that my explanation beforehand was pretty ignorant. Thank you for explaining that further.
12) You are 100% correct, I don't actually care whether I'm called White or Caucasian or Jewish or whatever, it's just theoretically I feel that as a society we should be at a point where labels don't really matter. I guess it's just me being overly ideological, because that probably won't happen.
13) I don't actually intend to go around calling Blacks that word, or go around thinking about them in that way. It's just a weird fascination with the word that should really just be dropped, in search of more empowering words that could be used instead.
Overall I agree with you on a lot of things, and you are much more informed about this than I am, so I do need to research it more before I form my opinion.
Thank you for actually using factual data and not the horrendous reasoning / mode of logic in the OP's powerpoint. I wish more people on this forum were like you! |
Thank you so much for those compliments, I really appreciate them. And I thank you for opening your mind to different ideas and not refuting anything that disagreed with what you originally believed. I don't have a problem with people being unaware, but adamant ignorance is awful.
Personally, I have a hard time with the n-word as well but I find that it's not really my place to talk about because I'm not black and I don't have as strong of a connection to the word, and I wonder as well whether compartmentalizing everything and having a term for every possible type of person is helping or doing damage, because it is more inclusive but it is also somewhat counterproductive to the goal of seeing everyone as human. And that's truly the fine line that is hard for this movement to ride; how do we teach people that we're all equal but different as well? It's not easy, and there's no formula for it. I think it's just important to be aware of your standing in the context of racism and to be sensitive about what other races and ethnicities face. I do recommend researching the topic because it's good information that should be greater spread in society, but even if you can't find the time for that, simply acknowledging that American society puts white people in an advantaged position and that there are impediments to opportunity to people of color in real life and that these impediments shape our media is golden. 
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Member Since: 4/17/2011
Posts: 9,162
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Letting Blacks say the "n word" but judging Whites for saying it is RACIST
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I don’t care how much White folks want to use that word. I don’t care how unfair you think it is that someone else gets to use it when you don’t. Your people gave up the privilege to use that word the moment they invented it as a tool of oppression.
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Automatically assuming that every White person is privileged, has an easy life, is guilty of enslaving Blacks is RACIST and DEROGATORY
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No one claims that every white person has an easy life. But, white people need to realize that even if they are not racist, they still benefit from structural and institutional racism.
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Reverse racism IS real, especially with things like affirmative action that discriminate against Whites and Asians and aid minorities like Blacks and Latinos/as to get into college more easily
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THIS IS ******** AND YOU KNOW IT!!!! IN FACT, WHITE WOMEN BENEFIT MORE FROM AFFIRMATIVE ACTION THAN ANY OTHER GROUP!! THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY WHITE PEOPLE WHO SUED FOR "REVERSE RACISM" DUE TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EVEN THOUGH THE SCHOOL MADE IT CLEAR THAT THEIR UNDERPERFORMING ASSES WOULDN'T"VE GOTTEN IN ANYWAYS. BITCHES JUST WANT TO GUT THE PROGRESS THE COUNTRY HAS MADE.
EXAMPLE:
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As for Fisher, there is ample evidence that she just wasn’t qualified to get into the University of Texas. After all, her grades weren’t that great, and the year she applied for the university, admissions there were actually more competitive than Harvard’s. In its court filings, the university has pointed out that even if Fisher received a point for race, she still wouldn’t have met the threshold for admissions. Yes, it is true that in the same year, the University of Texas made exceptions and admitted some students with lower grades and test scores than Fisher. Five of those students were black or Latino. Forty-two were white
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http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/aff...#ixzz2X58TK1GQ
So sit with that nonsense.
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The article basically paints Whites as racist, disgusting people who automatically hate Blacks and "need to be put in their place" WHAT KIND OF BLATANT RACISM
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The article clearly states that not all white people are evil and racist. But, let's make this about the poor white people and their problems. Puhlease.
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If a White person makes a joke against African Americans, it's horrible, but when a Latino makes a joke about African Americans, it's okay, because they aren't White and can't be racist?
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White people make black jokes all the time. Most of the time without even realizing that they're even being offensive. And this comes from a guy who grew up around white people in liberal ass San Francisco.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
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Not americans taking this so serious... 
I can't even say something about a person that is black without being racist..What kind of discrimination is this 
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Member Since: 6/9/2012
Posts: 3,964
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1. I don't believe in "privilege." I believe in treating everyone equally. (I know people are going to quote this saying "You don't even understand this post blah blah it has nothing to do with it white privilege pressed American blah" I. Don't. Give. Two. *****. What it comes down is people trying to push this whole "white privilege" thing as some form of "payback."
2. I don't listen to Social Justice ********. Like holy **** stfu and go toke up
3. ANYONE CAN BE RACIST.That's why the word is as general as RACist and not WHITEPEOPLEHATEEVERYTHINGist. It's the literal ****ing definition and no amount of MS Paint power points that are probably made by some Hitalia/Social justice fan blog on tumblr will change that.
4. If anyone on the street tried to bitch at me about privilege and all of this BLATANTLY RACIST **** I've read in this post, I'd kick their ass.
5. Shut the **** up. Just. God. The bitching never quits.
6. I'm part Native American. "omg ur white doesn't count" Bitch I am Native and my people were heavily ****ed over. Lemme just go cry and make a post about other people's privelege.
NAH SON.
This post makes me wanna slit my ankles.
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Member Since: 8/10/2012
Posts: 1,700
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoThisAnymore
If you treat a person or judge them differently because of their race, THAT IS RACISM
--> Letting Blacks say the "n word" but judging Whites for saying it is RACIST
--> Automatically assuming that every White person is privileged, has an easy life, is guilty of enslaving Blacks is RACIST and DEROGATORY
--> White can be racist, just like Blacks or Asians or Jews or Latinos or Native Americans or Indians or Russians or _________ can be racist. Have you not seen the Holocaust, or ethnic cleansing in southeast Europe?
--> I don't buy it for ONE SECOND that a Black man with credentials or a degree will get hired less than a White man recently in jail or prison or whatever
--> Furthermore, people automatically link racism to Blacks, but other races have been subjugated in the past. Native Americans were put on reservations, the Japanese were literally put into interment camps because of their race
--> Reverse racism IS real, especially with things like affirmative action that discriminate against Whites and Asians and aid minorities like Blacks and Latinos/as to get into college more easily
--> The article basically paints Whites as racist, disgusting people who automatically hate Blacks and "need to be put in their place" WHAT KIND OF BLATANT RACISM
--> If a White person makes a joke against African Americans, it's horrible, but when a Latino makes a joke about African Americans, it's okay, because they aren't White and can't be racist?
The first few pages of this thread were a mess. This girl on tumblr can't go making her own defintions and her own race pyramid in order to justify her argument, the vast majority of dictionaries defines racism and prejudice as nearly the same thing.
In 2013, there is no institutionalized racism. Are you honestly telling me that my Black neighbors whose children ride on the same bus as me to school are having a horrible life and being discriminated against when they get more help in schools (special classes that give tutors specifically to Blacks and Latinos), easier time getting into college (affirmative action ), more financial aid when they do get in ( ), etc.?
Side note: I use AA and Black interchangeably; if they can call me White, I should be able to call them Black
Side note: The N Word is NOT something that Blacks should be trying to "reclaim" from Whites - there is no pride in that word, only years of slavery. It would be like me trying to "reclaim" slurs against Jews that were used by the Nazis against my people during WWII. |
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Originally posted by Blatboy
1. I don't believe in "privilege." I believe in treating everyone equally. (I know people are going to quote this saying "You don't even understand this post blah blah it has nothing to do with it white privilege pressed American blah" I. Don't. Give. Two. *****. What it comes down is people trying to push this whole "white privilege" thing as some form of "payback."
2. I don't listen to Social Justice ********. Like holy **** stfu and go toke up
3. ANYONE CAN BE RACIST.That's why the word is as general as RACist and not WHITEPEOPLEHATEEVERYTHINGist. It's the literal ****ing definition and no amount of MS Paint power points that are probably made by some Hitalia/Social justice fan blog on tumblr will change that.
4. If anyone on the street tried to bitch at me about privilege and all of this BLATANTLY RACIST **** I've read in this post, I'd kick their ass.
5. Shut the **** up. Just. God. The bitching never quits.
6. I'm part Native American. "omg ur white doesn't count" Bitch I am Native and my people were heavily ****ed over. Lemme just go cry and make a post about other people's privelege.
NAH SON.
This post makes me wanna slit my ankles.
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I seriously wish more people on the internet would think like this and not just believe things from Tumblr they read that they know nothing about
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