[alrightsir]

Originally posted by Underdogs

Their magic together has burnt out. It's time to move on. How much longer can she work with them? I want her to do the new-main-producer-on-new-album thing.

M!ss was Linda
TT was Tim
TTAL has kind of been Greg
Next one should be someone totally unexpected!

Yeah, that's right. The magic has gone.

But I hope she will have the guts to find a totally new producer and take the chance.

[Underdogs]

Originally posted by Braz

You guys take this commercial talk out of here now... I'll never get why a serious, slow song is always considered better than a party song and this album has everything anyway. You guys just want another Try This which had some great songs but also her worst ones. While TTAL doesn't reinvent the wheel it expands her catalog to some pretty interesting places. But as long as she doesn't release the slow acoustic album we'll get these comments. And while I'm sure most will find it great, brave, ARTISTIC, I really fear it cause Pink can really overwrite her serious songs, just take a listen to Crystal Ball or Conversations, some of her worst songs. And her fans hate on the poppy radio ready stuff, all with great melodies and hooks that go unnoticed by the fans. What she does in Walk of Shame, telling a story with beggining/middle/end, with lyrics that no one else would pull off, great singalong chorus and verses, is pop perfection, all under 3 minutes, and some still call it generic cause it's a happy party song.

Yes i said this on the previous page. A commercial/generic song isn't always bad & an artistic/experimental song isn't always good.
Try This is flawless though. Only Tonight's The Night can be argued to be a bad song but ive grown to love it & i realized it's very intelligent.

BUT an album TTAL is wasted potential. Try/JGMAR are one of the best songs on Top 40 radio at the moment, but Pink is much better than that.

Originally posted by alrightsir

Yeah, that's right. The magic has gone.

But I hope she will have the guts to find a totally new producer and take the chance.

I think the problem right now is why fix it if it's not broken? The Truth About Love is not only adored by fans, but also by critics. What else would she want to achieve?

[alrightsir]

Originally posted by Underdogs

I think the problem right now is why fix it if it's not broken? The Truth About Love is not only adored by fans, but also by critics. What else would she want to achieve?

That's what I'm always saying, why would she wanna change anything? And as I see the more or less disappointed fans are her hardcore fans who have supported her since years.

Braz, that's not true. She has really good party/happy songs like Bad Influence, Cuz I Can or even So What.

[Braz]

I don't see why Pink is much better than Try or JGMAR and not her earlier stuff. The lyrics, production, hooks are some of her best ever imo. I'll just never get the TT love. The Linda songs are great but than you have stuff like Tonight's the Night, OMG, Last to Know and Walk Away that is just bland garage rock and what I consider beneath her. It's certainly more raw but the production is just off in some of these songs, even more than the chorus for Try that everyone loves to hate.

[Percivalx]

So the consensus of fans want P!nk to go indie once again? If that is the case, why do most here care so much about her chart performance?

If she doesn't do pop music then she'll probably go back to her Try This days of not being popular and being ignored by radio.

I think some of you should make up your minds. I believe P!nk knows she NEEDS radio and needs to do mainstream music to survive in the industry.

[electricrocket]

Even P!nk's party songs have descended into vacuity.

As to the "what more could she want?" contention: people might think a) commercial success and b) critical acclaim are the only goals an artist would want to achieve.

c) artistic integrity is the missing element. It's an element P!nk had in spades but is progressively losing. Don't tell me Just Give Me A Reason (her most profound song of late) has the integrity and profundity that Eventually had, for example.

[Braz]

I don't get what a profound song is but JGMAR is a very well written ballad depicting a relationship through a conversation between 2 lovers that decided they want to move on. I don't see where she lost any credibility with such a great song. But in your opinion Eventually is better. In mine, it isn't.

[electricrocket]

Originally posted by Braz

I don't get what a profound song is but JGMAR is a very well written ballad depicting a relationship through a conversation between 2 lovers that decided they want to move on. I don't see where she lost any credibility with such a great song. But in your opinion Eventually is better. In mine, it isn't.

I guess by artistic integrity or profundity I mean something that's difficult to articulate. It's something to do with rawness / depth/directness of communication of emotion / less manufactured (i.e. coming directly from the artist. Just something that isn't so shiny. Something raw and something that is closer to being art than a polished bullet up the charts.

M!ssundaztood was that, as was Try This and a lot of I'm Not Dead.

[Underdogs]

Every song on Try This is better than any song on TTAL Like TT and TTAL are not even in the same league to be compared.

And some of Pink's best songs are happy songs: Get The Gospel Started, Feel Good Time (the production is unmatched), Humble Neighborhoods, Bad Influence, Centerfold, Delirium, Fingers, Funhouse, God Is A DJ, Hooker (), This Is How It Goes Down, 18 Wheeler etc.

Originally posted by Percivalx

So the consensus of fans want P!nk to go indie once again? If that is the case, why do most here care so much about her chart performance?

If she doesn't do pop music then she'll probably go back to her Try This days of not being popular and being ignored by radio.

I think some of you should make up your minds. I believe P!nk knows she NEEDS radio and needs to do mainstream music to survive in the industry.

Pink was never indie though M!ssundaztood, her most critically acclaimed and commercially successful album is a pop album.

Originally posted by electricrocket

Even P!nk's party songs have descended into vacuity.

As to the "what more could she want?" contention: people might think a) commercial success and b) critical acclaim are the only goals an artist would want to achieve.

c) artistic integrity is the missing element. It's an element P!nk had in spades but is progressively losing. Don't tell me Just Give Me A Reason (her most profound song of late) has the integrity and profundity that Eventually had, for example.

But the point is, who gets to decide what's good music and what's bad? You? Me? Music is TOTALLY subjective.
On what grounds can you say that Pink has compromised her artistic integrity other than your personal opinion? TTAL has a score of 77 on metacritic, which is beyond amazing for a pop record.

That's why these conversations go nowhere because it's all about personal taste.

[electricrocket]

Originally posted by Underdogs

But the point is, who gets to decide what's good music and what's bad? You? Me? Music is TOTALLY subjective.
On what grounds can you say that Pink has compromised her artistic integrity other than your personal opinion? TTAL has a score of 77 on metacritic, which is beyond amazing for a pop record.

That's why these conversations go nowhere because it's all about personal taste.

I don't accept this argument, because if it was taken to its logical conclusion then whenever there was scope for argument on any matter everyone would sit in silence and hold up a 'No Point In Arguing; We Are In Subjective Territory' sign.

It's all a matter of opinion; I don't claim my views are objective fact. It's all about assessing the reasons of people's arguments and how they reach their conclusions and determining on that basis which arguments are most convincing.

[Braz]

Thanks Underdogs! And you are dead wrong on Flop This. That album isn't this great jam her longtime fans claim. It does have her best song ever in Waiting for Love though and that is not up to debate.

[electricrocket]

Just Flop Me a Reason

[pinktennisfreak]

P!nk herself stated that with this record she would loose some stans and gain a new ones. I agree with Undersogs. It's all very subjective. Some people would find Try This a trash, but praise TTAL, and otherwise. It doesn't matter anyway.

According to critics, TTAL is her best albums. But, would her hardcore stans agree with that?! Hm, hardly. .

[Underdogs]

Originally posted by electricrocket

I don't accept this argument, because if it was taken to its logical conclusion then whenever there was scope for argument on any matter everyone would sit in silence and hold up a 'No Point In Arguing; We Are In Subjective Territory' sign.

It's all a matter of opinion; I don't claim my views are objective fact. It's all about assessing the reasons of people's arguments and how they reach their conclusions and determining on that basis which arguments are most convincing.

Well of course, that's why we are here on a pop forum, after all. But all i'm saying is that an argument like this will always end in 'agree to disagree.'

Originally posted by Braz

I don't get what a profound song is but JGMAR is a very well written ballad depicting a relationship through a conversation between 2 lovers that decided they want to move on. I don't see where she lost any credibility with such a great song. But in your opinion Eventually is better. In mine, it isn't.

JGMAR is trash next to Eventually, just so we're clear

[Underdogs]

Originally posted by Braz

Thanks Underdogs! And you are dead wrong on Flop This. That album isn't this great jam her longtime fans claim. It does have her best song ever in Waiting for Love though and that is not up to debate.

Try This is Pink's best album. Hooker is better than anything on IND, FH and TTAL

[Braz]

I just don't see how her earlier work is this raw artistic record while the new one is shiny and commercial. The last one is happier but that is a state of spirit mind not sacrifice of art. The one thing I don't like is Blow Me but because it had that horrible pre chorus.

[Percivalx]

Some of you are so picky.

[Underdogs]

Originally posted by Braz

I just don't see how her earlier work is this raw artistic record while the new one is shiny and commercial. The last one is happier but that is a state of spirit mind not sacrifice of art. The one thing I don't like is Blow Me but because it had that horrible pre chorus.

Her earlier work is artistic and original and experimental and innovative.

TTAL is very conventional and not nothing that we haven't heard before, musically. It fits the standard top 40 chart mold like a glove.

[alrightsir]

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Originally posted by Underdogs

Every song on Try This is better than any song on TTAL Like TT and TTAL are not even in the same league to be compared.

well, it's surprising but I'm glad you said that. I thought I'm the only one "against" TTAL.

[Underdogs]

Originally posted by alrightsir

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well, it's surprising but I'm glad you said that. I thought I'm the only one "against" TTAL.

No girl
M!ss/TT/IND Pink is like a whole different artist from FH/TTAL Pink.