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Celeb News: SNL faces backlash over gender identity joke
Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
What exactly does this try and prove? What sad person was THAT bothered by people talking about what goes into their identity that they had to spent the time to create such a hateful message.
And sharing it is just as bad.
AND the logic in this image doesn't even make sense. How do you not know anything about a person if they literally described all these things? Well I guess there is an answer: it's that you're a bigoted, ignorant person who doesn't want to take a second to think or care about another human.
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I don't think it was trying to prove anything, I think it was a joke.
You didn't find it funny, but I kii'ed and cackled. Basically it catered to some senses of humour and not others, as most comedy does.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roman Holiday
Being for human rights =/= Enabling delusional people
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Who is to say they are delusional?
And does one not have the right to be whatever they are even if you can't understand it?
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,527
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Quote:
Originally posted by kishi
Honestly, those of you saying "take a joke" and "grow thick skin" are insensitive.
Everyone reacts to these types of situations differently. You're not in any authority to tell people how to feel.
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you need to learn to take a joke in the real world and being oversensitive over things that people probably do without wanting to harm anyone is not gonna help you
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glassmouth
you need to learn to take a joke in the real world and being oversensitive over things that people probably do without wanting to harm anyone is not gonna help you
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And in the real world, telling people that their problems are just a joke when its rooted in real things that actually affect them, is INsensitive and ignorant.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
I don't think it was trying to prove anything, I think it was a joke.
You didn't find it funny, but I kii'ed and cackled. Basically it catered to some senses of humour and not others, as most comedy does.
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It's a joke? Ya, I got that. A joke that is satirizing people having various identities, belittling it as if it's not something that should be taken seriously. Maybe in 20 years when we don't have people saying stuff like "OMG 37 GENDERS!? WTFFFFFF" then we can poke fun at differences but until then, until those differences are not cause for violence, hatred and lack of rights, it's not going to be appropriate to joke about them.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
It's a joke? Ya, I got that. A joke that is satirizing people having various identities, belittling it as if it's not something that should be taken seriously. Maybe in 20 years when we don't have people saying stuff like "OMG 37 GENDERS!? WTFFFFFF" then we can poke fun at differences but until then, until those differences are not cause for violence, hatred and lack of rights, it's not going to be appropriate to joke about them.
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That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. My opinion is that someone who believes there to be more than 2 genders does not follow the biological, scientific or dictionary definition of gender.
As for making jokes... Some of the funniest jokes ever are incredibly offensive. That's the point of comedy. If people don't like it, that's just another part of being a comedian.
But as for 37 genders... No. I am a scientist and empericist. I have studied neuroscience, neuroanatomy and psychiatry on the subject in great detail. There are two genders.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. My opinion is that someone who believes there to be more than 2 genders does not follow the biological, scientific or dictionary definition of gender.
As for making jokes... Some of the funniest jokes ever are incredibly offensive. That's the point of comedy. If people don't like it, that's just another part of being a comedian.
But as for 37 genders... No. I am a scientist and empericist. I have studied neuroscience, neuroanatomy and psychiatry on the subject in great detail. There are two genders.
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Can you explain how science has proved there are only two genders? Remember we are not talking about sex. How has science defined "male" and "female" identifications?
And considering science once thought the Earth was flat, and so many other wrong things (I mean we could basically list so much), I don't really think that relying on science is better than relying on what people are actually telling you about themselves first hand. If someone neither identifies as male nor female gender, how do you explain that? Are they lying? And for what purpose?
In regards to comedy, sure, offensive stuff can be funny, but when the joke is at the expense of someone else, not at the expense of it being offensive, then that can be very harmful. Just because people laugh at a joke doesn't mean it's not really truly hurtful to someone else.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Can you explain how science has proved there are only two genders? Remember we are not talking about sex. How has science defined "male" and "female" identifications?
And considering science once thought the Earth was flat, and so many other wrong things (I mean we could basically list so much), I don't really think that relying on science is better than relying on what people are actually telling you about themselves first hand. If someone neither identifies as male nor female gender, how do you explain that? Are they lying? And for what purpose?
In regards to comedy, sure, offensive stuff can be funny, but when the joke is at the expense of someone else, not at the expense of it being offensive, then that can be very harmful. Just because people laugh at a joke doesn't mean it's not really truly hurtful to someone else.
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By definition, gender is used to describe the difference in characteristics between the biological sexes. You can be male or female, and that can be distinct from your biological sex, but it can't be anything else. Any biologist will tell you that. If someone wants to be 'non-binary', they can call themselves that, but they shouldn't expect the world to accept their delusion as reality.
Ok, have it your way then. A schizophrenic man will tell you that he feels the voices in his head are real with absolute conviction. Should we accept his version of reality to be true? No, of course not. Facts don't care about your feelings. I might feel that I identify as an attack helicopter, but that doesn't mean the world and everyone living in it should change their way of thinking to conform to my delusion.
And yes, comedy has always had people be the butt of jokes. That's how it has always been. And an overweight, blue-haired, 'non-binary' or whatever person on tumblr who wants the world to use the pronouns fe/fy/fis rather than get the psychiatric help they need is unfortunately the sort of person comedians have always picked on... How many jokes about hearing voices have you heard?
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
By definition, gender is used to describe the difference in characteristics between the biological sexes. You can be male or female, and that can be distinct from your biological sex, but it can't be anything else. Any biologist will tell you that. If someone wants to be 'non-binary', they can call themselves that, but they shouldn't expect the world to accept their delusion as reality.
Ok, have it your way then. A schizophrenic man will tell you that he feels the voices in his head are real with absolute conviction. Should we accept his version of reality to be true? No, of course not. Facts don't care about your feelings. I might feel that I identify as an attack helicopter, but that doesn't mean the world and everyone living in it should change their way of thinking to conform to my delusion.
And yes, comedy has always had people be the butt of jokes. That's how it has always been. And an overweight, blue-haired, 'non-binary' or whatever person on tumblr who wants the world to use the pronouns fe/fy/fis rather than get the psychiatric help they need is unfortunately the sort of person comedians have always picked on... How many jokes about hearing voices have you heard?
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The fact that you are saying that these people need “psychiatric help” basically sums up all I need to know about your ignorance. What you’re suggesting is that people who do not ascribe to either gender require some sort of conversion therapy in order to become the “normal” person you think they should be. That’s both harmful and dangerous rhetoric.
You’ve used the definition of the word “gender” as proof, but that word was created very long ago. I would strongly suggest you do some research into gender diversity, not only in western cultures but in cultures all over the world. There are countless documented, real examples of third or fourth genders in societies where individuals are neither male nor female and often they hold a role of honour in the society. So using a western idea of male and female to cover the entire population of the world is not only ethnocentric but lacks complete empathy.
And my questions are still unanswered. Science has proven what about gender exactly? If you want to use science to back this up, use science, but it seems like you’re using a religious standpoint against it that you’ve either masked in science or do not realize that you feel this way because that religious stance has infiltrated the way you/people in this society think.
Your examples are illogical. Talking about multiple genders still identifies people as living beings. Comparing it to someone claiming to be an inanimate object doesn’t really create a logical comparison.
And lastly, you’re excusing insensitive jokes with the reasoning that because we’ve heard a lot of them before, that they must be able to continue. Joking about mental illness should be off-limits too if the joke is at the expense of the person.
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Member Since: 11/10/2011
Posts: 14,820
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Well:
1. It's a joke
2. It's kind of true (for me "Gender is a social construct" and "All white people are racist" are a large part of the reason I've become more right-wing in the past couple of years. There's a line for everybody, and mine has been crossed)
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 43,104
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37 IS too much. Tinder should've stuck to the most common ones and then add an other or submit your own category. It's an SNL joke, Dems need to work on their humility.
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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Member Since: 11/10/2011
Posts: 14,820
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
The fact that you are saying that these people need “psychiatric help” basically sums up all I need to know about your ignorance. What you’re suggesting is that people who do not ascribe to either gender require some sort of conversion therapy in order to become the “normal” person you think they should be. That’s both harmful and dangerous rhetoric.
You’ve used the definition of the word “gender” as proof, but that word was created very long ago. I would strongly suggest you do some research into gender diversity, not only in western cultures but in cultures all over the world. There are countless documented, real examples of third or fourth genders in societies where individuals are neither male nor female and often they hold a role of honour in the society. So using a western idea of male and female to cover the entire population of the world is not only ethnocentric but lacks complete empathy.
And my questions are still unanswered. Science has proven what about gender exactly? If you want to use science to back this up, use science, but it seems like you’re using a religious standpoint against it that you’ve either masked in science or do not realize that you feel this way because that religious stance has infiltrated the way you/people in this society think.
Your examples are illogical. Talking about multiple genders still identifies people as living beings. Comparing it to someone claiming to be an inanimate object doesn’t really create a logical comparison.
And lastly, you’re excusing insensitive jokes with the reasoning that because we’ve heard a lot of them before, that they must be able to continue. Joking about mental illness should be off-limits too if the joke is at the expense of the person.
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Well, if 50 human societies (current, and throughout history) have had 3rd or 4th genders, whilst the other 75,000 human societies (current, and throughout history) have had only 2, chances are the 75,000 are the ones that are correct.
For me, I don't match all typical male characteristics. One characteristic of male MAMMALS (across almost all species, yes, including humans) is that the males engage in more "rough and tumble" play as infants than females do. For me, I rarely engaged in "rough and tumble" play as a child, and mainly played with girls, yet I still know I'm a male. There are other characteristics where I deviate from typical male characteristics as well, but I still know I'm male. If I were an SJW, I'd be panicking, and complaining about gender stereotypes (which are mostly based off reality), inventing a new gender to fit how I "feel" (not how I really am), and spending hours on Tumblr forcing everybody else to accept and recognise my invented gender, but thankfully I'm a fully functional, logical, and emotionally stable adult, so I am comfortable with who I am (a male), even though I'm different in some ways to the average male.
I can get on board with something like:
Male
Female
Male + Female
Neither
But what SJWs have done is ridiculous and is making Western society the laughing stock of the rest of the world and future historians.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tsuko
Well:
1. It's a joke
2. It's kind of true (for me "Gender is a social construct" and "All white people are racist" are a large part of the reason I've become more right-wing in the past couple of years. There's a line for everybody, and mine has been crossed)
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So you've aligned yourself more towards racism because someone called you racist?
Makes no sense.
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Member Since: 9/13/2012
Posts: 7,285
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Member Since: 1/1/2013
Posts: 19,579
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It's a sad time for both sides
It's just a joke, it was intended as a joke and it's not funny but it was meant to be enjoyed in the same way a comedy show is. I was front row at a comedy gig and got the **** ripped into me for being gay and wearing a Christmas jumper and studying Spanish etc etc it's meant to be taken lightly, I didn't cry about it.
But at the same time people in here are extremely insensitive and are so pressed by something that doesn't affect them. Sure it might seem silly because you're comfortable being a gay male but not everyone is. People shouldn't be this offended over a joke but it's not your place to tell people this idea is "stupid" or look down on anyone for it, because it ends up making you look intolerant and close-minded which is such an ugly trait for a gay person to have, as a minority.
I've learnt the gay community is trash though so I'm not surprised. Just let people live and ignore the vocal Tumblr poison that desperately want a reaction, they're trolling just as much as you are.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tsuko
Well, if 50 human societies (current, and throughout history) have had 3rd or 4th genders, whilst the other 75,000 human societies (current, and throughout history) have had only 2, chances are the 75,000 are the ones that are correct.
For me, I don't match all typical male characteristics. One characteristic of male MAMMALS (across almost all species, yes, including humans) is that the males engage in more "rough and tumble" play as infants than females do. For me, I rarely engaged in "rough and tumble" play as a child, and mainly played with girls, yet I still know I'm a male. There are other characteristics where I deviate from typical male characteristics as well, but I still know I'm male. If I were an SJW, I'd be panicking, and complaining about gender stereotypes (which are mostly based off reality), inventing a new gender to fit how I "feel" (not how I really am), and spending hours on Tumblr forcing everybody else to accept and recognise my invented gender, but thankfully I'm a fully functional, logical, and emotionally stable adult, so I am comfortable with who I am (a male), even though I'm different in some ways to the average male.
I can get on board with something like:
Male
Female
Male + Female
Neither
But what SJWs have done is ridiculous and is making Western society the laughing stock of the rest of the world and future historians.
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There is not one correct way to look at gender in the world, thus we have to be inclusive of all the ways. Just like we can’t say that one religion is the correct religion just because more people practice it.
You’re clearly not understanding gender, nor what SJWs are saying. You can be an SJW and not panic about your gender just because you don’t fit into a stereotype. You’re applying a restricting, heteronormative, paternalistic view onto gender by saying this. No, if you were an SJW you’d understand gender in ways that you’re clearly not getting now and would be fine, just as you are fine. But you don’t fully understand it so can’t get past that barrier, just as some people can’t get past the barrier of homosexuality. Are you also against homosexuality? And if not, why are you making exceptions for human variation and not another? Just because there are less people in the world who are gender non-confirmative? This logic is dangerous as it can be used against all types of people.
Gender does not have ANYTHING to do with what typically male or female things you like to do. It’s not about “hey do I conform to male standards? if not I must be a woman” it’s about “what do I as a person identify with?”.
Does having 37 genders on Tinder REALLY bother you that much?
Honestly, hating SJWs is just an indication that you are bigoted. How can you hate social justice .. like?
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Member Since: 9/4/2012
Posts: 1,775
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tsuko
Well:
1. It's a joke
2. It's kind of true (for me "Gender is a social construct" and "All white people are racist" are a large part of the reason I've become more right-wing in the past couple of years. There's a line for everybody, and mine has been crossed)
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doogle
It's a sad time for both sides
It's just a joke, it was intended as a joke and it's not funny but it was meant to be enjoyed in the same way a comedy show is. I was front row at a comedy gig and got the **** ripped into me for being gay and wearing a Christmas jumper and studying Spanish etc etc it's meant to be taken lightly, I didn't cry about it.
But at the same time people in here are extremely insensitive and are so pressed by something that doesn't affect them. Sure it might seem silly because you're comfortable being a gay male but not everyone is. People shouldn't be this offended over a joke but it's not your place to tell people this idea is "stupid" or look down on anyone for it, because it ends up making you look intolerant and close-minded which is such an ugly trait for a gay person to have, as a minority.
I've learnt the gay community is trash though so I'm not surprised. Just let people live and ignore the vocal Tumblr poison that desperately want a reaction, they're trolling just as much as you are.
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!!
This.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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I’m sorry but if you are literally saying that hearing people complain about issues that affect them makes you hate them more, then you are an ignorant, insenstive and egocentric person without the capability to have basic empathy.
It just seems like you need an excuse for your bigotry and so predictably use the people you dislike as having brought it on themselves, because really, minorities would be so much better off if they just never made a fuss. Right?
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