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Discussion: Why highly critically acclaimed gerls dont get popular?
Member Since: 8/24/2008
Posts: 35,091
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ace Reject
Right? But actually go back and listen to the song - break it down, structurally. Where are the melodies? Where are the hooks? How does the chorus only pop up once until it gets to the bridge? And then the song goes to that Timbo rap, and then just FADES OUT.
Like, that's a comeback single? It's audacious, that's for sure.
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You don't like what Queen Li offered?
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ATRL Moderator
Member Since: 2/19/2003
Posts: 34,484
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vin
Yes, I listened to "21" and "Born This Way" and "Pink Friday." I don't go in on artists without hearing the product first because, like you, I hold the art of critique to a high standard.
Absolutely. You stated the point that I wanted another member to post other than myself. And that point is IMAGE. A large majority of what a critic is critiquing is image. I would even go as far to say that a critic is critiquing the image before the product is available, whether it be an album or movie. Lindsay Lohan and Natalie Portman could have delivered the exact same performance in "Black Swan," but I'd put money on the Natalie Portman version of "Black Swan" being higher rated and more critically acclaimed than the alternate reality Lindsay Lohan version of "Black Swan." Because it's all about that image. Avril has pink and green streaks. Ke$ha subject matter revolves around drinking and degrading boys. Britney Spears was going through a public breakdown. Critics compound these images and form judgements and then add those judgements when critiquing the product, which is unprofessional, but very common. And that's why "Circus" is higher rated than "Blackout." And that's why "Speak Now" is higher rated than "Goodbye Lullaby." And that's why "21" is higher rated than...
...Vin
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The only tragedy there is that Circus, which is half-terrible, is rated higher than ANYTHING.
And, again - I don't think many girls - or boys - of our generation could write lyrics and music to an ENTIRE album like Taylor did. The fact that she did it - and did it WELL - is why it's been commended.
But you see, Vin, a lot of people don't - or won't - give her the respect she deserves because of her image too. They see the pretty pink princess, with the super-locked hymen - but not the true talent underneath.
And, for the record - vocally, Avril > Taylor.
Musically, Taylor > Avril. Avril really could not have done a song that is as solid, from top to bottom, as a Mean or a Mine or a Enchanted or a Dear John or a Long Live BY HERSELF.
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ATRL Moderator
Member Since: 2/19/2003
Posts: 34,484
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Quote:
Originally posted by iBeyoncé.
You don't like what Queen Li offered? |
It's her Sexy! No, No, No.
Audacious, to be sure, but not a single. Especially NOT a first single.
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Member Since: 6/1/2010
Posts: 65,177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ace Reject
Right? But actually go back and listen to the song - break it down, structurally. Where are the melodies? Where are the hooks? How does the chorus only pop up once until it gets to the bridge? And then the song goes to that Timbo rap, and then just FADES OUT.
Like, that's a comeback single? It's audacious, that's for sure.
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"We Need a Resolution" and "What About Us?" bu Brandy were ambitious but there was something weird about the structure of those songs. Maybe that's what made those songs "different" and "special."
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Member Since: 6/10/2011
Posts: 6,946
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vin
Absolutely. You stated the point that I wanted another member to post other than myself. And that point is IMAGE. A large majority of what a critic is critiquing is image. I would even go as far to say that a critic is critiquing the image before the product is available, whether it be an album or movie. Lindsay Lohan and Natalie Portman could have delivered the exact same performance in "Black Swan," but I'd put money on the Natalie Portman version of "Black Swan" being higher rated and more critically acclaimed than the alternate reality Lindsay Lohan version of "Black Swan." Because it's all about that image. Avril has pink and green streaks. Ke$ha subject matter revolves around drinking and degrading boys. Britney Spears was going through a public breakdown. Critics compound these images and form judgements and then add those judgements when critiquing the product, which is unprofessional, but very common. And that's why "Circus" is higher rated than "Blackout." And that's why "Speak Now" is higher rated than "Goodbye Lullaby." And that's why "21" is higher rated than...
...Vin
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There's some true tea here. Image is fundamental and misleading, you're right.
However, one must not forget that Britney was singing:
"Gimme, gimme, more, gimme, gimme, gimme more, gimme, gimme, more, gimme, gimme, gimme"
I like Gimme More, but don't you think this takes some credibility away?
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Member Since: 7/3/2011
Posts: 10,425
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImpressiveInstant
There's some true tea here. Image is fundamental and misleading, you're right.
However, one must not forget that Britney was singing:
"Gimme, gimme, more, gimme, gimme, gimme more, gimme, gimme, more, gimme, gimme, gimme"
I like Gimme More, but don't you think this takes some credibility away?
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woma womanizer you're a womanizer o womanizer o your a womanizer baby.
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Member Since: 10/4/2010
Posts: 5,607
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It seems that most pop stars these days have careers/images that are created almost entirely by labels. The individuals themselves are rarely very special or talented, its more of a job that could seemingly be filled by any relatively good-looking/slightly talented person they take off the street, give an appealing image + catchy tunes to, and promote the **** out of.
The woman listed are the only real pop stars in a sense. They're the only ones who's artistry is genuine and self-derived. Sadly, these days, you need to be putting a lot of cash into big name executives pockets to be a big name, and their artistry just ain't advertised and well-formulated enough to bring in that kind of money.
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Also, the general public don't want something complicated, they want something easy to assimilate. That's when the generic pop comes in.
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImpressiveInstant
There's some true tea here. Image is fundamental and misleading, you're right.
However, one must not forget that Britney was singing:
"Gimme, gimme, more, gimme, gimme, gimme more, gimme, gimme, more, gimme, gimme, gimme"
I like Gimme More, but don't you think this takes some credibility away?
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Are we really gonna point the finger on Britney here? Songs with repetitive choruses have been spinning around for ages by the most various artists. It's a easy way to catch the attention.
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Member Since: 11/11/2010
Posts: 1,720
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vin
Yes, I listened to "21" and "Born This Way" and "Pink Friday." I don't go in on artists without hearing the product first because, like you, I hold the art of critique to a high standard.
Absolutely. You stated the point that I wanted another member to post other than myself. And that point is IMAGE. A large majority of what a critic is critiquing is image. I would even go as far to say that a critic is critiquing the image before the product is available, whether it be an album or movie. Lindsay Lohan and Natalie Portman could have delivered the exact same performance in "Black Swan," but I'd put money on the Natalie Portman version of "Black Swan" being higher rated and more critically acclaimed than the alternate reality Lindsay Lohan version of "Black Swan." Because it's all about that image. Avril has pink and green streaks. Ke$ha subject matter revolves around drinking and degrading boys. Britney Spears was going through a public breakdown. Critics compound these images and form judgements and then add those judgements when critiquing the product, which is unprofessional, but very common. And that's why "Circus" is higher rated than "Blackout." And that's why "Speak Now" is higher rated than "Goodbye Lullaby." And that's why "21" is higher rated than...
...Vin
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On the Blackout vs Circus thing...I think image went into it, but I think Blackout deserved it's low rating. It might have good toons, and certainly geared towards Britney fans, but I think it deserved what it got. Where I think image came into the Britney situation was that Circus got high sympathy ratings because she was finally cleaning her act up and delivered a polished, if a little bit boring, pop album.
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Member Since: 5/25/2010
Posts: 23,013
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ace Reject
But you see, Vin, a lot of people don't - or won't - give her the respect she deserves because of her image too. They see the pretty pink princess, with the super-locked hymen - but not the true talent underneath.
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The people that don't give respect to Taylor Swift don't do so because she's vocally uninteresting. Her pretty pink princess, with the super-locked hymen image helps her, not hurts her. She may be a good songwriter, but when the vocals are lacking, that will be the focal point.
Quote:
Originally posted by RedDlicious
On the Blackout vs Circus thing...I think image went into it, but I think Blackout deserved it's low rating. It might have good toons, and certainly geared towards Britney fans, but I think it deserved what it got. Where I think image came into the Britney situation was that Circus got high sympathy ratings because she was finally cleaning her act up and delivered a polished, if a little bit boring, pop album.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImpressiveInstant
There's some true tea here. Image is fundamental and misleading, you're right.
However, one must not forget that Britney was singing:
"Gimme, gimme, more, gimme, gimme, gimme more, gimme, gimme, more, gimme, gimme, gimme"
I like Gimme More, but don't you think this takes some credibility away?
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Fair enough.
...Vin
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Member Since: 3/16/2011
Posts: 6,580
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Quote:
Originally posted by RedDlicious
On the Blackout vs Circus thing...I think image went into it, but I think Blackout deserved it's low rating. It might have good toons, and certainly geared towards Britney fans, but I think it deserved what it got. Where I think image came into the Britney situation was that Circus got high sympathy ratings because she was finally cleaning her act up and delivered a polished, if a little bit boring, pop album.
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So basically ur saying Femme Fatale is better than blackout? whatever, we cant let Britney overshadow (like she always does to anything) the real topic. 
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Member Since: 6/22/2011
Posts: 3,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vin
I understood your previous post, but it's a very generalized statement. Not here for that. But you added to my point with your above post. Avril Lavigne is a good example. Because Avril Lavigne is a blonde with pink and green streaks in her hair with a youthful demeanor, she's immediately written off by critics -- and people in general -- before an album is even released. Avril Lavigne sings as good as -- arguably better than -- Adele, is more versatile than Adele, and is overall more vocally interesting than Adele, but is not respected as much as Adele. Why is that? Because she's not in Oscar De La Renta gowns at awards with a mature, womanly image? Why is Taylor Swift's "Speak Now" more critically acclaimed than Avril Lavigne's "Goodbye Lullaby?" These are the questions I want people to ask.
...Vin |
LOL You should pick better examples. Speak Now is far superior than Goodbye Lullaby. Goodbye Lullaby was a failure. Some stupid lyrics(I really like 'Smile' but the lyrics are really cringe-worthy), cheap producing(i know the album is stripped-down, but album really sounds like amatuer album), uninspired melody etc etc...
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Member Since: 6/1/2010
Posts: 65,177
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Quote:
Originally posted by enchanted0
LOL You should pick better examples. Speak Now is far superior than Goodbye Lullaby. Goodbye Lullaby was a failure. Some stupid lyrics(I really like 'Smile' but the lyrics are really cringe-worthy), cheap producing(i know the album is stripped-down, but album really sounds like amatuer album), uninspired melody etc etc...
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I concur.
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Member Since: 6/10/2011
Posts: 6,946
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
Are we really gonna point the finger on Britney here? Songs with repetitive choruses have been spinning around for ages by the most various artists. It's a easy way to catch the attention. |
I'm not "pointing the finger", I'm giving arguments. And I'm not just talking about repetitive choruses, I'm talking about lyrical content in general.
And don't get me wrong, I love Gimme More.
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Member Since: 11/11/2010
Posts: 1,720
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Quote:
Originally posted by cheap
So basically ur saying Femme Fatale is better than blackout? whatever, we cant let Britney overshadow (like she always does to anything) the real topic. |
Keep it cute 
I actually do think FF is better than Blackout, but FF has nothing to do with what I was saying. I think Blackout got what it deserved, possibly higher, and I think Circus her people brought her back looking healthy and put together again, so all the "triumphant return" or "Britney's back" taglines led to a higher score than Circus deserved
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Member Since: 5/25/2010
Posts: 23,013
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Quote:
Originally posted by enchanted0
LOL You should pick better examples. Speak Now is far superior than Goodbye Lullaby. Goodbye Lullaby was a failure. Some stupid lyrics(I really like 'Smile' but the lyrics are really cringe-worthy), cheap producing(i know the album is stripped-down, but album really sounds like amatuer album), uninspired melody etc etc...
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And that brings me back to my original point -- preference. Critics have their own preference. What would you prefer? An album with great lyrics, but weak, uninteresting vocals, or an album with amazing vocals, but questionable lyricism? Some critics would prefer the latter, others would prefer the former. And both would be graded accordingly, but does that mean one opinion holds more weight than the other? Nope.
...Vin
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Member Since: 6/22/2011
Posts: 3,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vin
And that brings me back to my original point -- preference. Critics have their own preference. What would you prefer? An album with great lyrics, but weak, uninteresting vocals, or an album with amazing vocals, but questionable lyricism? Some critics would prefer the latter, others would prefer the former. And both would be graded accordingly, but does that mean one opinion holds more weight than the other? Nope.
...Vin |
LOL yes 'Alice', 'Push(ughhhhhhhh)', 'Goodbye' has some amazing vocals!!!!!!
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Member Since: 5/25/2010
Posts: 23,013
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Quote:
Originally posted by enchanted0
LOL yes 'Alice', 'Push(ughhhhhhhh)', 'Goodbye' has some amazing vocals!!!!!!
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My online sarcasm meter is going off the charts.
...Vin
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Member Since: 5/11/2011
Posts: 1,999
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Quote:
Originally posted by RedDlicious
But it's become a thing for people to get into the non-sexy girls of the moment. That's why people STAY posting about how much they love Adele but haven't even thought about looking into similar music for equal quality.That way people can say they like "real" music with "real" talent, while Adele sits on their playlists with all the many untalented pop stars they really like
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