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News: Netherlands to ban Burqa & other face covering clothes
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
No, that wouldn't work. The reason those slaves are legally used there is because they're undocumented immigrants whose passports are taken away from them thus they are forced to work as slave labor. Arabs are used as sex slaves though.
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Why ? Rich black people aren't treated right in the Western world ? Imo the racism really shows in the difference in treatment between poor blacks and poor whites.
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Member Since: 12/10/2010
Posts: 23,117
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Quote:
Originally posted by IBeMe
I'm ok with the burqa being banned because it truly is an extreme and unnecessary version of the hijab. Most women who put the burqa on are oppressed and do not choose to put it on. Women who put the hijab though make that choice 99% of the time so I'm glad the hijab is not banned.
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This.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
Aren't berber seen as another race though ? I'm legit asking I have no idea how they're perceived
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They're the natives and they've been treated terribly by Arabs in the past.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,642
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
Aren't berber seen as another race though ? I'm legit asking I have no idea how they're perceived
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They are another race (natives of North Africa)
However my point is he was enslaved despite being arab and Berber and was enslaved by black arab identifying rich Mauritanians (many black north Africans identify as Arabs such as Sudanese and mauritanian black ppl). The enslavement in that region truly was class based. Still horrific ofcourse but it definitely was not race based...it was not campaigned as such whereas the European and north American enslavement of Africans was campaigned, charged and motivated by racial segregation/dominance etc.. This is the major difference.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
Why ? Rich black people aren't treated right in the Western world ? Imo the racism really shows in the difference in treatment between poor blacks and poor whites.
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I wasn't referring to your first post. And no one is treated as badly in America as those Asian slaves in the gulf so I'm not sure why you're trying to get me to compare them.
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Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
Granada 1066, and throughout the 11th century tbh.
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Yes, things like that happened. Which is why I said "relative". Jews were still considered second class citizens. But they were even less than that in many other parts of the world. The fact that they had Jewish viziers at all and several politically influential Jewish leaders.
Couldn't imagine that happening in late medieval Spain. Inquisition tbh.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by IBeMe
They are another race.
However my point is he was enslaved despite being arab and Berber and was enslaved by black arab identifying rich Mauritanians (many black north Africans identify as Arabs such as Sudanese and mauritanian black ppl). The enslavement in that region truly was class based. Still horrific ofcourse but it definitely was not race based...it was not campaigned as such whereas the European and north American enslavement of Africans was campaigned, charged and motivated by racial segregation/dominance etc.. This is the major difference
Still horrific but yeah.
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I'm willing to accept your argument, but your example doesn't support it since berbers are another race
Do you have any examples of Arab people enslaving their own race ? Then it'd be class based for sure.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
Yes, things like that happened. Which is why I said "relative". Jews were still considered second class citizens. But they were even less than that in many other parts of the world. The fact that they had Jewish viziers at all and several politically influential Jewish leaders.
Couldn't imagine that happening in late medieval Spain. Inquisition tbh.
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A pogrom you mean ? Ok, then you have a very loose definition of relatively progressive society, very very loose.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,642
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
I'm willing to accept your argument, but your example doesn't support it since berbers are another race
Do you have any examples of Arab people enslaving their own race ? Then it'd be class based for sure.
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Absolutely
Check out info about mecca and Medina from back in the day
They enslaved arab boys and men for labor work and sex enslavement too.
Also my example does work. Had the enslavement in that region been based on race you wouldn't find black Mauritanians enslaving berber arab boys, men
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Member Since: 2/2/2009
Posts: 20,174
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The Netherland being the most progressive country in the world AGAIN! Will they ever NOT win?
The answer is no.
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Member Since: 8/25/2012
Posts: 30,317
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
A pogrom you mean ? Ok, then you have a very loose definition of relatively progressive society, very very loose.
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Yes, you'd have to have a very loose definition when talking about progressivism in the middle ages
You mentioned about pogroms (which didn't happen often in Islamic Andalusia, maybe 2 or 3 times.. in all that time) from the year 600-something, but... Neo Nazis (alt-right) are endorsing the newly appointed American president today.
But there's more to a country than their views on Muslims, Christians or Jews.
So, yes, Islamic Andalusia was a relatively progressive society.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,198
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this thread has gotten sooo messy
SJW's slaying the islamophobes
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
at the brain-washing.
Open a history book and crack open your head with it because every altercation Christianity has had with Islam has been a response to a provocation. Who raped and reaved on the coasts of the Mediterranean for centuries? Who conquered half of Spain that if Isabel and Ferdinand hadn't gotten off their asses, they'd still be speaking Arabic? Who stole the Holy Land to begin with? Who sacked Constantinople and razed its churches to the ground and raped nuns on their altars? The last 50 years? The development in the last century has been the anti-semitism re-born in the form of anti-Zionism and under the pretext of "pro-Palestine". Because nobody cares if the Jews are being massacred again. They only care that Muslim women are being "oppressed" when the societies that have taken them in demand that they show their faces for the sake of security and common decency.
At least Christians brought something to the societies they conquered. Some culture, some technology, the concept of law, some type of advancement. Islam is a stagnant pool that never purifies. Never a new idea, never a contribution to science, to art, to music, to the advancement of Man. Stuck in a perpetual, self-wrought dark age with their woman looking at the world through a net. Where a big social "triumph" consists of Saudi Arabian women being declared equivalent to MAMMALS. MAMMALS. In the 21st century.
Under the pretext of good intentions and the myopia of political correctness, everyone is failing to see things for what they are.
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Yikes, please don't conflate "pro-palestine" with anti-semitism. Imperialism is not cute.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,477
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Quote:
Originally posted by LoKoPaNdA
I understand the security concerns I guess, but Idk. This could be interpreted as forced assimilation.
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Assimilation isn't inherently a bad thing. Any successful society is built on some shared values.
Its not like the objection to the burqa is based on the concept of oppression alone, its literally dysfunctional to how western society works. Facial identification is a necessity, both for security and social cohesion.
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Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 7,343
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
Umm, you have heard of the Ottoman Empire, right?
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Yes. I've studied Arabic cultures and European history (for two years now) - I know which one is more oppressive and destructive.
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Member Since: 10/14/2011
Posts: 15,451
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
at the brain-washing.
Open a history book and crack open your head with it because every altercation Christianity has had with Islam has been a response to a provocation. Who raped and reaved on the coasts of the Mediterranean for centuries? Who conquered half of Spain that if Isabel and Ferdinand hadn't gotten off their asses, they'd still be speaking Arabic? Who stole the Holy Land to begin with? Who sacked Constantinople and razed its churches to the ground and raped nuns on their altars? The last 50 years? The development in the last century has been the anti-semitism re-born in the form of anti-Zionism and under the pretext of "pro-Palestine". Because nobody cares if the Jews are being massacred again. They only care that Muslim women are being "oppressed" when the societies that have taken them in demand that they show their faces for the sake of security and common decency.
At least Christians brought something to the societies they conquered. Some culture, some technology, the concept of law, some type of advancement. Islam is a stagnant pool that never purifies. Never a new idea, never a contribution to science, to art, to music, to the advancement of Man. Stuck in a perpetual, self-wrought dark age with their woman looking at the world through a net. Where a big social "triumph" consists of Saudi Arabian women being declared equivalent to MAMMALS. MAMMALS. In the 21st century.
Under the pretext of good intentions and the myopia of political correctness, everyone is failing to see things for what they are.
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100 PERCENT.
I can't believe you're being warned for something you've corroborated with facts and historical evidence. Liberals have been brainwashed into being unable to process thoughts that don't subscribe to one single and closed narrative. They only want a closed conversation, and they can't accept any answer that doesn't mean they're not correct.
Take one look at the rights and treatment of women, the LGBT community, blacks and Jews in any Islamic-dominated society. Look at every disgusting facet and tenet of Sharia law. If we allow our way of life to be infiltrated and polluted by their completely opposite ways then it will only lead to conflict.
Read a very famous journal called the Clash of Civilisations. It predicts, like what is happening, that the conflicts of the present and future no longer concern the political disagreements of 2 state actors- it's a clash of ideology.
Multiculturalism simply isn't an effective answer. It's a disastruous, near-irreversible failure. Well done to the Netherlands for approving something that's blatantly obvious.
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Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 7,343
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patri
at the brain-washing.
Open a history book and crack open your head with it because every altercation Christianity has had with Islam has been a response to a provocation. Who raped and reaved on the coasts of the Mediterranean for centuries? Who conquered half of Spain that if Isabel and Ferdinand hadn't gotten off their asses, they'd still be speaking Arabic? Who stole the Holy Land to begin with? Who sacked Constantinople and razed its churches to the ground and raped nuns on their altars? The last 50 years? The development in the last century has been the anti-semitism re-born in the form of anti-Zionism and under the pretext of "pro-Palestine". Because nobody cares if the Jews are being massacred again. They only care that Muslim women are being "oppressed" when the societies that have taken them in demand that they show their faces for the sake of security and common decency.
At least Christians brought something to the societies they conquered. Some culture, some technology, the concept of law, some type of advancement. Islam is a stagnant pool that never purifies. Never a new idea, never a contribution to science, to art, to music, to the advancement of Man. Stuck in a perpetual, self-wrought dark age with their woman looking at the world through a net. Where a big social "triumph" consists of Saudi Arabian women being declared equivalent to MAMMALS. MAMMALS. In the 21st century.
Under the pretext of good intentions and the myopia of political correctness, everyone is failing to see things for what they are.
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You're ridiculous. Hiding behind the "Europeans are in the right" sentiment because we are the people who 'came out on top'.
Colonisers from Europe raped many indigenous peoples - this is not exclusive to cultures from the Middle-East - you only sound like a bigot.
Your view is shrouded by false pretenses proclaiming that European technology & advancements are far superior in comparison to indigenous cultures - this is the discourse that gave reason for many European societies to invade untouched cultures - who were living in peace, mind you.
If you can't educate yourself on Ancient History then at least inform yourself on the events that formed our current state in the modern world. Many middle-eastern countries were relatively peaceful- in a far better state than they're in now - before Europeans intervened.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/8/2006
Posts: 42,086
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Humans are so **** in the gulf that they still have slave labor and it's mostly Sri Lankans, Pinoys and Indians. It's not a black thing there. It's a class thing.
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Which still makes it horrible
We are not talking about race here we are talking about a culture/country which represses women and still enslaves people in 2016 We are talking about how liberals defending anything that is not white even though they are doing exactly what they are against
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Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 7,343
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ressti
Crusades was a response to what? Why were the Brits involved? Why were the French? They had nothing to do with Muslims. They lived thousands of miles away? Why did they travel all the way to the middle east to kill brown people? Because Muslims and Jews conquered Jerusalem? ...... Like... 400 years before??? Insane.
Second, you make piracy sound like it was some major Muslim problem. It's a pirate problem. Pirates did not spread religion or act out according to their religion. Europe had plenty of her own pirates, much more dangerous than the North African or Turkish ones.
Who raped, reaved and slaughtered the coasts of west Africa? Christians. Who raped, reaved and slaughtered the coasts of South Asia? Christians. Who raped, reaved and commited genocide on the Americas? Christians. Those were pirates in my book.
The Moroccans did and they turned it into a relatively progressive society in which Jews, Muslim and Christians lived together in relative harmony. Islamic Spain was the most forward and progressive society in all of Europe, and probably the world at the time. There were schools, hospitals and even things like street lights. They allowed Arab scholars and Christian scholars to work together. Islamic Spain influenced science, medicine, art, engineering, architecture, etc
A lot of what the Muslims did at the time was influenced by the religion actually, it's wasn't like in during the Enlightenment when Europeans felt stifled by Christianity. The Quran actually motivated people to look for answers, so yes, the successes at the time can be attributed to Islamic culture.
The Islamic Golden age is the reason for why Europe has any science and technology to speak of. North Africans kept all the old Greek, Assyrian and Roman scholarly texts that the CHRISTIANS tried to destroy and they continued to build upon them. They introduced the numeric system from India to Europe. Please look down at your keyboard and tell me Muslims didn't contribute anything. There's a reason why so many western words are either in Greek, Roman or Arabic.
But then the Christians came down to Andalusia and killed every muslim and Jew they could get their hands on and the rest found refuge in North Africa.
No one "stole" the Holy Land. It's been trading hands between Arab Muslims and Jews for a long time now, but both side are from the same stock.
I guess technically now we can say the Europeans stole the Holy Land because Askenazi Jews are white Europeans.
That's how empires are formed. Look at America.
But Jews aren't being massacred anymore, Palestinians are.
Which is reasonable.
Pray tell me, what did the Christians bring West Africa? Nothing but death and slavery.
I don't remember that happening anywhere. Pretty sure all the technology had to be bought in the 20th century by the very countries they stole from.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienc..._Islamic_world
The reason why it's called Islamic Science btw is because these Muslim scientists were all influenced by the Quran to 1)Ask questions 2)Improve the lives of their fellow man.
See while the rest of Europe was swallowed in the Dark ages, North Africans/West Africans/Arabs and the Jews and Christians living among them, were all enjoying relatively prosperous times thanks to the advent of Islamic philosophy at the time.
Of course, compared to today, it's nothing, but back then, Islamic society was very progressive.
That's Saudi Arabia. America's ally
Anyway, we're not "stuck", anymore than Europe is. We're poor. We've have to deal with decades of colonialism, western instigated revolutions and war.
"They" are billions of people across all continents, living in all kinds of different cultures.
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The only relevant post in this thread.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chemist
Which still makes it horrible
We are not talking about race here we are talking about a culture/country which represses women and still enslaves people in 2016 We are talking about how liberals defending anything that is not white even though they are doing exactly what they are against
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*progressives not liberals.
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Same reason they brand Obama a war criminal and then throw praise Fidel Castro's way
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I'm liberal and while I do give Islam credit where it's due (unlike that embarrassing erroneous post by Patri that erases the many offensive crusades and history of Islamic nations as superpowers of innovation) I do realize it's an outdated, currently useless religion that, unless reformed, will not survive in the future.
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