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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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When have white people in general ever been better judges at what's best for minorities than minorities themselves?
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Member Since: 8/30/2012
Posts: 5,537
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
When have white people in general ever been better judges at what's best for minorities than minorities themselves?
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People of all races can vote against their own interest (poor white people voting for Brexit). The people being sovereign doesn't mean the people being right.
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Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idontcareaboutyou
People of all races can vote against their own interest. The people being sovereign doesn't mean the people being right.
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But's it's not about race when liberals tell lower class white voters that they are voting against their interests by aligning with the GOP, rather economics, something everyone has a scope of.
White people have no place in determining what voting for Black interest specifically entails. Is it any shock that the woman who promises to extend Obama's agenda and made anti-black racism a central point of her campaign enjoyed the majority of black support over the man who doubled back to wealth inequality whenever questioned on race relations?
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Member Since: 8/30/2012
Posts: 5,537
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
But's it's not about race when liberals tell lower class white voters that they are voting against their interests by aligning with the GOP, rather economics, something everyone has a scope of.
White people have no place in determining what voting for Black interest specifically entails. Is it any shock to people that the woman who promises to extend Obama's agenda and made racism a central point of her campaign enjoyed the majority of black support over the man who doubled back to wealth inequality whenever questioned on race relations?
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I will agree that Sanders had a poor campaign when it came to dealing with race issues.
However, just look at their backgrounds on these issues and Sanders comes off looking much better imo.
Also, dealing with wealth inequality in America is dealing with race relations given the correlation.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 25,228
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Quote:
I think we’re expecting the Democratic Party to do things the Democratic Party cannot do on its own. The Democratic Party, when it succeeds and is a governing party, is a coalition. And it’s pushed by social movements; it’s pushed by ethnic and racial groups. You saw it with gay marriage. That was not a Democratic Party platform, to be in favor of gay marriage in 2004. Arguably, it defeated John Kerry because if he won Ohio, as we know, he would’ve won, even though he might not be president either if it came from outside of the party. And that was true in the ’30s and ’40s and ’50s, too. The black freedom movement was not a Democratic movement, to start with. It was outside the party.
Democrats need movements, need extraparty institutions to push the party. And that’s why—even though I didn’t vote for Bernie; in D.C. it didn’t matter anyway—I think he was really valuable because he really embodied the sense of “let’s push the party to places where, right now, it isn’t.”
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Incredible article btw.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...m-perez-214039
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Member Since: 5/8/2012
Posts: 6,632
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
Spot-on. The alt-right and brogressives are one in the same. Which is why Dems need to stop catering to them.
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When did the Dems ever cater to the alt-right and brogressives? Tim Caine is her running mate. Hillary gave DWS an honorary spot on her campaign.
Bernie leveraged for criminal justice reform and climate change action, oh how dare he force the DNC to adopt his fringe left positions 
Hillary can't win this election by relying on the moderates
And don't blame Bernie for making Hillary looking like such a weak, untrustworthy candidate by exposing her flaws to the general public. Trump would have done it by himself anyway.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 25,228
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Sanders problem with minority voters at the end of the day was that he had no relationship with them being from Vermont. His constituency was majority white. To most people, he just looked like a old white guy. He understood the issues, he just didn't make as much of a play for those voters because Clinton has a stronghold over those voters. Didn't they even vote for her over Obama at first in 2008?
His campaign was not setup to be a winning campaign. They didn't see he actually had a chance until very late in the game. According to another Politico article, around January, even Obama's aides saw polling that showed Bernie could have won. He just waited too long to try and win them over and polling showed that the more people go to know Bernie, the more they liked him. That's why his polling continued to grow even after the media said he mathematically eliminated.
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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Quote:
Originally posted by idkher
Misogyny is real
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True. But hills campaign has hit so many rocks with these scandals, they paint the negative narrative of her. Against a competent republican nominee shed probably lose by a long shot
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 25,228
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@Benzene, you are being way too dismissive of a part of the party that is critical. To say they're fringe or irrelevant is a pretty narrow minded view of how the country is ideologically. Bernie got 13 million votes (43% of the vote) when in any other time in history, he would have been lucky to get 5-10% of the vote. A lot of the people who voted for Bernie were also life long democrats. It wasn't just fringe independent voters, especially since a lot of them couldn't even vote in the primaries.
Also exit polling showed the party is far more liberal than it was 8 years ago and a lot of people's vote for Clinton was because they found her more electable.
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Member Since: 6/19/2012
Posts: 29,579
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idontcareaboutyou
I will agree that Sanders had a poor campaign when it came to dealing with race issues.
However, just look at their backgrounds on these issues and Sanders comes off looking much better imo.
Also, dealing with wealth inequality in America is dealing with race relations given the correlation.
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Of course @ the bolded - dealing with wealth inequality will bring about better outcomes for all, but I question how it will work to resolve the already existing economic disparities in race.
And I agree that Bernie definitely has the more attractive history on issues of race.
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Member Since: 9/20/2011
Posts: 3,218
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike91
Sanders problem with minority voters at the end of the day was that he had no relationship with them being from Vermont. His constituency was majority white. To most people, he just looked like a old white guy. He understood the issues, he just didn't make as much of a play for those voters because Clinton has a stronghold over those voters. Didn't they even vote for her over Obama at first in 2008?
His campaign was not setup to be a winning campaign. They didn't see he actually had a chance until very late in the game. According to another Politico article, around January, even Obama's aides saw polling that showed Bernie could have won. He just waited too long to try and win them over and polling showed that the more people go to know Bernie, the more they liked him. That's why his polling continued to grow even after the media said he mathematically eliminated.
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This is so true. Like can you imagine if Bernie had an actual campaign manager not those hacks Devine and Weaver, he genuinely could have been the nominee, he had a lot going for him.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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I just want to briefly point out once again that recent polling indicates 85% of Sanders voters have already decided to vote for Hillary.
I also want to further note that Bernie's national polling did indeed start to level out and then drop before his mathematical elimination.
Not to go against any points being made now, I just think it's important that these things are considered.
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Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 1,663
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i can't @ these bernbots on msnbc right now. saying how they want to take the election from hillary and give it to bernie because bernie is the first candidate to ever not be paid by banks
sis he ended his campaign and endorsed her he dont want it he gave up
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Picking Kaine was such a blunder, damn.
We needed someone who could get people to show up in Nov at the very minimum. Oh well.
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But this is the result of a standard and statistically normal post-convention poll increase for Trump and not the result of Kaine as VP? I don't follow how Kaine is a blunder.
I basically hate him as a choice but that's because I wanted Warren. Looking at things objectively he's kind of a brilliant choice and helps court any moderates and independents who were hesitant about Hillary's leftward trend.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
And the most disgusting thing is that that crowd has historically counted on the support of Blacks, Latinos, and other minorities in electing their candidates of preference. These are the blocks that have decided elections in their favor despite diminishing white support. You have them to thank for Obama winning in 2012 despite losing the white vote to Romney in record numbers.
Additionally, had Bernie won the nomination, I am sure minorities would have showed out for him in the general election without hesitation. Can you imagine the toxic vitriol that would be flung in their direction had they displayed the stubbornness currently shown by the Bernie or Busters? We already got a taste of it as Bernie got thrashed by Hillary in the South.
Unity only matters to these people when they're not the ones charged to make a compromise.
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This word. Agreed with Damien M, truest statement ever posted here. I hope these communists leave the party once and for all when this is over.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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If the election were held today perhaps Trump would win. But it's not. I already warned y'all about post-convention polls and still. 
And it's too early to call Kaine a blunder. I remember after the post-RNC Palin bump everyone was saying how Obama screwed up by not picking a woman for VP. How did that work out?
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Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 1,663
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idontcareaboutyou
A lot of people say white men are foolish for voting Trump and we shouldn't say we think minorities voted against their interest by voting for Clinton instead of Sanders ?
Sorry, minorities have no more right to be protected from criticism than anyone else.
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white men saying they know whats better for minorities.. than minorities..
donald is that you?
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idontcareaboutyou
I will agree that Sanders had a poor campaign when it came to dealing with race issues.
However, just look at their backgrounds on these issues and Sanders comes off looking much better imo.
Also, dealing with wealth inequality in America is dealing with race relations given the correlation.
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During the election minorities kept sending y'all the message with our votes to stop telling us what's best for us and still y'all don't listen. This is why minorities don't mess with the herbal tea party.
And no, racial inequality =/= income inequality. Even Oprah has been racially profiled.
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Member Since: 1/6/2014
Posts: 19,122
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike91
@Benzene, you are being way too dismissive of a part of the party that is critical. To say they're fringe or irrelevant is a pretty narrow minded view of how the country is ideologically. Bernie got 13 million votes (43% of the vote) when in any other time in history, he would have been lucky to get 5-10% of the vote. A lot of the people who voted for Bernie were also life long democrats. It wasn't just fringe independent voters, especially since a lot of them couldn't even vote in the primaries.
Also exit polling showed the party is far more liberal than it was 8 years ago and a lot of people's vote for Clinton was because they found her more electable.
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43% of the party is not Bernie or Bust. That's what I'm referring to.
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