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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andres
I hear you! But you just further proved my point that Obama is too much of a compromiser and didn't fight hard enough to push the progressive agenda.
Look life long democrats probably LOVE Obama but young liberals/progressives see what he lacked and what he represents and we don't like it
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andres
You "knowing black people" < A 20 year study carried out by Princeton. Sorry.
& to touch on what you said to Retro.
The U.S. has ALWAYS moved left, never right. Liberals (or whatever they were called back in the day) have always been on the right side of history and we'll contine to move left and be on the right side of history. Long before the rest of America.
You'll' join us soon enough, history tells me that much  |
I disagree on what you said about Obama, but that's okay. I'm a 18 year old male. I'm very liberal so trust me I'm already on board with you. Politics is a strategy. It's a game, and only the ones who know how to perfectly craft that survives. Progressives may want to change that, but they also shouldn't deny it. That is our current reality.
A lot of more people are moving to the left, but not as fast as you may have. Republicans/conservative leaning Independents are still 45% of the country. Not all Democrats are very liberal either. There are 300M people in the US and we all disagree on things. My whole point, really, is to say to both sides to not forget those grounded, policy safe individuals. We know college debt is a problem, but we may not want it free for all either. And to get mad at us for that is simply wrong.
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Member Since: 7/4/2007
Posts: 24,859
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Tested my Political Compass again:
Economic Left/Right: -2.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.36
Apparently I'm more left and more libertarian than Sanders is, on a personal level. Though how I personally feel doesn't necessarily equal what I think the smartest way to move the country forward in the next 8 years is...
https://www.politicalcompass.org
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Member Since: 4/12/2011
Posts: 3,256
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
That there's still a chance, that's what it tells me. We do not give up when a state goes red, we fight for it. We look at the demographics, the people, the ideas coming from that state and we see our chance is still alive and we fight for it.
Turnout is our obstacle and our tool. Turnout is the name of the game. The people control everything if they so choose to exercise that control, and we can get the people we need in Texas.
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I really hope your optimism bears fruit.
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Member Since: 4/12/2011
Posts: 3,256
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This election will ultimately be about racist whites against blacks and other minorities and non racist whites... Deny it all you can...
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 3,730
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monster Megamind
Then what is Bernie or Bust all about? I support her because she represents views/goals that are actually practical.
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Climate change will probably literally destroy this planet if we don't act RIGHT NOW but you want to talk about practical? You see where we differ?
I'm more worried about he direction of this country's government than about a Trump presidency, yes that's my choice. I can sleep fine at night, I'm not punishing anyone, I'm choosing the hard choice... you know, something that some people have a hard time doing.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andres
But it seems to me that you aren't seeing the core of the issue in all of government (includes dems and GOP)
The spending on public election leads to corporations getting what they want, not the people getting what they want.
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I see it. I'm starting - or trying to start - chapters for represent.us and Democracy Spring in my city, in what becomes once every four year the center of the political universe. I see what's happening.
I am simply more vocal and forthright about my intense passion for my party and the woman who is now its leader. But I see what's happening around me.
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Member Since: 7/4/2007
Posts: 24,859
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andres
Climate change will probably literally destroy this planet if we don't act RIGHT NOW but you want to talk about practical? You see where we differ?
I'm more worried about he direction of this country's government than about a Trump presidency, yes that's my choice. I can sleep fine at night, I'm not punishing anyone, I'm choosing the hard choice... you know, something that some people have a hard time doing.
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What is your hard choice - not voting? Many people do that quite easily.
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Member Since: 4/12/2011
Posts: 3,256
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andres
Climate change will probably literally destroy this planet if we don't act RIGHT NOW but you want to talk about practical? You see where we differ?
I'm more worried about he direction of this country's government than about a Trump presidency, yes that's my choice. I can sleep fine at night, I'm not punishing anyone, I'm choosing the hard choice... you know, something that some people have a hard time doing.
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Yes. But when he comes and starts punishing women for undergoing abortions and in fact stop the Paris agreement etc, that's on you all. And also forget about any raise in minimum wage.
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andres
Climate change will probably literally destroy this planet if we don't act RIGHT NOW but you want to talk about practical? You see where we differ?
I'm more worried about he direction of this country's government than about a Trump presidency, yes that's my choice. I can sleep fine at night, I'm not punishing anyone, I'm choosing the hard choice... you know, something that some people have a hard time doing.
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Climate change is real. Climate change is also one issue, and what we're talking about it for ALL issues. Climate change should be dealt with sooner rather than later. But climate change won't have a disastrous effect for another 5 decades at the earliest.
Climate change is real, but it should be dealt with based on economic policy as well. Taking away jobs and putting people out on the streets into poverty is just as worse. We have to be smart and with all of us leading the fight together. Get it?, Got it., Good!
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Trump is unacceptable. I fully believe that every presidential ballot cast by the aware, concerned left needs to be for Hillary.
While we wait for a different year in Presidential politics, there's so much we can do at every other level.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 3,730
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Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
I disagree on what you said about Obama, but that's okay. I'm a 18 year old male. I'm very liberal so trust me I'm already on board with you. Politics is a strategy. It's a game, and only the ones who know how to perfectly craft that survives. Progressives may want to change that, but they also shouldn't deny it. That is our current reality.
A lot of more people are moving to the left, but not as fast as you may have. Republicans/conservative leaning Independents are still 45% of the country. Not all Democrats are very liberal either. There are 300M people in the US and we all disagree on things. My whole point, really, is to say to both sides to not forget those grounded, policy safe individuals. We know college debt is a problem, but we may not want it free for all either. And to get mad at us for that is simply wrong.
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OH BABY I'm not denying that at all and neither are Bernie supporters, that's exactly what we're out to change!
See the way people think personally vs politically can be very different, you just said it yourself and someone literally just posted about that right now.
It's like people think we don't have the power to ask for things like free college but we DO but we can't elect people who are against it in the name of pragmitism or incrementalism.
Why are you holding back?
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Climate change needs to be halted immediately and I think we need to rise up with extreme fervor to make our representatives realize this. Just saying.
It needs to have been solved sixteen years ago.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 3,730
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
I see it. I'm starting - or trying to start - chapters for represent.us and Democracy Spring in my city, in what becomes once every four year the center of the political universe. I see what's happening.
I am simply more vocal and forthright about my intense passion for my party and the woman who is now its leader. But I see what's happening around me.
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But who cares about a party that's infested with corruption? **** incrementalism, why can't we demand what we believe in?
Quote:
Originally posted by Monster Megamind
Yes. But when he comes and starts punishing women for undergoing abortions and in fact stop the Paris agreement etc, that's on you all. And also forget about any raise in minimum wage.
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I would happily go starved if it meant protesting Trump every day of my life for those kinds of things.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 3,730
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
Climate change needs to be halted immediately and I think we need to rise up with extreme fervor to make our representatives realize this. Just saying.
It needs to have been solved sixteen years ago.
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We need a time machine and make sure AlGore becomes President 
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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We demanded gay marriage, and got it, but in return we see nothing but anti-discrimination bills. We demanded legalizing abortions, got it, but yeah "only before 20 weeks"
And this isn't just Republican leaders. These are states with 65% of the population (looking at you West Virginia) agreeing with these bad laws. it's really sad, and we must keep fighting, but it just shows the country isn't ready for a peaceful, all in love with each other's views society either.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andres
But who cares about a party that's infested with corruption? **** incrementalism, why can't we demand what we believe in?
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I do because I see the legacy of this party and the heights it has achieved. I do because I see that there are Democrats who are not corrupt, who fight for their causes every day honestly. I do because I see that even some who work with and through this corrupt system are good, and have the right intentions. We have two major parties that already have power; one, at least, is worth saving. I cannot say the same for the other. My pride in my party doesn't exclude my calls for a better, more honest Republic.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andres
We need a time machine and make sure AlGore becomes President |
Well, he was elected, but that mess is a discussion for another day. 
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 3,730
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
I do because I see the legacy of this party and the heights it has achieved. I do because I see that there are Democrats who are not corrupt, who fight for their causes every day honestly. I do because I see that even some who work with and through this corrupt system are good, and have the right intentions. We have two major parties that already have power; one, at least, is worth saving. I cannot say the same for the other. My pride in my party doesn't exclude my calls for a better, more honest Republic.
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Fine so protect those leaders, don't protect a corrupt system.
Why can't those leaders that you admire be independent of your party? The party as a whole is corrupt and to defend it in honor of legacy isn't doing ANYONE any good.
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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I'm so glad Al Gore wasn't POTUS. Everything happens for a reason. I believe a higher deity (rather you believe in God or destiny) made Bush president so the 1st steps of the decline of that major party could begin.
We may not have had Obama, or Hillary, or Bernie even. Let's just focus on the future. Trump also is good for us. We'll look back and say "Really? Thank God the Democrats ended that."
My party is not corrupt imo. I won't let you offend it when it has done great things. It's not perfect either.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 3,730
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Just hypothetically speaking, if the democratic party died tomorrow it would only be remembered for the great things it did. If it continues the path it's in right now then it could take a turn it can't come back from.
My point being that I'm not worried about no damn party, I'm worried about the future of my country. The country my niece and nephew will live in when I'm long gone.
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